Immigration and Illegal aliens

[Flaptail]

Well, now that the Latino population of this country is mobilizing where do you think it will lead? Almost everyone of us are the prodigy of immigrants. My grandfather was born on the chinese/russian border. His family moved west across Russia into Poland and at 13, being sponsored by a cousin already here, left his family and emigrated to the US by himself, he could not speak english but learned because he had to. He never went on welfare or public assistance and paid taxes all his life. (except for brewing some home made vodka and getting bagged during prohibition he led a law abiding life).

What are the differences here in the current question for which the Latino community has mobilized to prevent current legislation? As I understand it there are more than 11 million illegal immigrants here in the US. They live and work here yet they are not citizens and yet they enjoy public assistance, some healthcare and schooling. They do the things that Americans think below them workwise. Should being an illegal alien be a felony?

I think a felony may be just the impetus to get them off of the fence. If you want to stay here then jump in with both feet. Become an American, learn English and contribute. I don't think they should lose the cultural aspect of thier heritage as we all enjoy our heritage's and cultures but bottom line is first and foremostr we are Americans, are fathers and thiers came here and assimilated into the culture of the US while still holding onto the traditions of thier past.

I am sure Mexico would take it as an affront if 11 million americans went there liiegally and then decided that we would not learn the language and wanted to be treated the same but with no commitment on our part.

The illegal immigration of so many points to an epidemic. It has to be stopped. I see no Ellis Island along the Rio Grande like my grandfather and all the others had to suffer through. New blood and the tapestry of all the cultures that make it up are what makes this country great. If you want to be a part of it you are welcome but you have to abide by the rules. It is only right and fair to all who came before and made the pledge. I support the current proposed immigration law changes.

[Skip N]

Everyone is for legal immigration. You come to this country by doing it the right way through the proper channels like our ancesters did. You don't come here by illegally crossing the border and avoiding the border patrol. Its a slap in the face to the folks who do it the right way. Why should we US reward illegal behavior? If we do that whats the point of going through the proper channels? Hell lets just let everyone come in here who wants to be, no backround checks done and we have a clue if these folks are dangerous or not. Im sure a few Al-Queada folks will love that idea too.

I'm sick of these pro illegal immigrant folks saying we are all anti immigrants. We are anti ILLEGAL immigrants, we are for immigration if its done the right freakin way, like my ancesters did!!

And i question the mexican immigrants commitment to being Americans. Like flap said, they are just coming here for free %$%$%$%$ and thats it. They could care less about being americans, they just want our money and free healthcare. And look at all these recent pro illegal immigrant rallies, you notice you see very few Americans flags being carried, its mostly all mexican flags! Maybe i'd have a different view if i knew these people were going to be committed to becoming Americans. You know, learning the langauge, respecting our laws and our culture.

[JohnR]

I would like to see the companies that have hired the illegals over the year fined and have their names made public - companies and the people in positions at those companies that hired them. I'm sure the list would be long and startling...

It's like the drug war, if you make illegal, put some semi-serious enforcement into it but you don't solve the root cause, it will still happen no matter how much $$ you throw at it...

[zacs]

i was at the rally in LA and there were more american flags than any other flag. you should know better than to trust the media.

I have mixed feelings on the topic. I agree, we should not support illegal behavior.

I don't believe however, that these people come here to suck on the tit of public assistance. They come here and do the hardest, nastiests, lowest paying jobs. They help keep our standard of living the way it is, and for that I am greatful.

How easy is it to come here legally? I really don't know. Is it as easy as when our grandparents/greatgrandparents came over??? Doesn't seem like it. Perhaps if we made it easier to get in they wouldn't be illegal....

[Clammer]

I just had some friends sworn in as citizens =======proudest moment of their lives >...

also you would,n t want to have a U>S> history test against them ///

sadly on my part /they know more about our country before & now than I do ------same on me >>>>>

[Bigcat]

Illegal is Illegal no if 's and or but's about it.
A illegal alien ran down and killed my nephew,what did they do? Slaped his wrist and sent him back to Mexico

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I would like to see the companies that have hired the illegals over the year fined and have their names made public - companies and the people in positions at those companies that hired them. I'm sure the list would be long and startling...
.

Here here you got that right John

I can't stand that honest companies continue to lose jobs and bids to unscrupulous companies that hirs illegals. Pretty soon we will give up fighting them and join them, God I hope that doesn't happen But if customers are more aware of what goes on, maybe some of them will stay away from the low bidders and get the job done right by hiring by the book companies.

I don't mind immigrants either, as long as they do it right and not sneak over the border like when the are in labor just to have their baby in an American hospital so they can recieve our benefits and suck on our governments tits, you don't think that happens Zacs?

[ThrowingTimber]

You have to decide on a point of view here Flap. You’re on two dif. Subjects. On one hand you’re saying jump in with both feet etc. being welcoming etc.

Then you make a statement like “Learn English.” Very, very bad juju….

Do you for one second think, that folks who would need to use English as a second language, don’t want to learn it?

Think about that for one second…

Why don’t they know English? Yeah, Flap they’re out working!! They don’t have the time to hang with folks and watch tv, hang out at the local bars and pick up a few lines here and there. I know many folks who bust their hump to make ends meet doing the things no one else wants to do. And its not as easy your statement of just become a citizen. The US has not extended Amnesty for some time now, look up facts.

Don’t take this as a personal attack or anything I’m trying to make you realize what you just wrote.

Look into things further, dig deeper before making statements like learn English. I’d LOVE to see you tell my neighbor, who works 8hrs in a factory comes home grabs his lunch and hits job 2 for 8 hours, then does cleaning work on the side… could you as a man honestly tell this gentleman to “Learn English?”

Oh and Flap, the folks who just collect govt’ dough.. yeah we are’nt too keen on ‘em either.. Unless its an actual necessity, Im sure youd agree that ok then. But every group has some. And no one is proud of theirs.

[Slipknot]

wow, that really sucks bigcat, sorry to hear that.

[BigBo]

Pretty interesting given the date;

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in
good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be
treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to
discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or
origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an
American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one
flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes
all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any
foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one
language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but
one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
--Theodore Roosevelt, 1919

[zacs]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

you don't think that happens Zacs?

I do think it happens. But I think they are the minority, not the majority. I think they majority are working knee deep in chicken guts, or bending over 14 hrs a day picking your fruit.

I think they are greatful to be here, and they would be happy to call themselves american, pay taxes, and speak the language.

[MakoMike]

Vic,
No offense but my grandfather went through much the same thing as your neighbor and still he took the time to lear English and make his family learn English. Neither my father nor my mother or either set or granparents spoke a word of english when they came to America. Yet it didn't take very long for them to learn it. They wouldn't teach me Italian, for fear that I would grow up and speak English with an accent (Dumb Wops )

[bart]

I believe that if you come to this country it should be your responsibility to learn the English language. I've worked with many hispanic people when i was a mover, and yes they have incredible work ethic, but not being able to communicate with them really hindered our ability to work as a team. they couldn't communicate with the customer or with other employees, and this was a big deal when handling heavy pieces of furniture. I see this all the time in other business settings as well. how are you going to accomplish anything with someone who can't even understand what you're saying? having a common language only seems like common sense to me...

[BigBo]

My wife is asian and she came to the US 33 years ago. She had to learn the language real quick to be self sufficient in everyday things we take for granted. You can now request to take your drivers exam in your own foreign language. What are they going to do when they can't read the road signs? It's time to sign into law that english is the official language of the US before it costs this country billions of dollars to have multi-language road signs, multi-language school teachings, etc, etc, etc. It really pisses her off to see the new breed of immigrants (legal/illegal) coming to the US with no desire to learn english. Many (not any race in particular) are here just to work for a while, filter that money back to their own country to support sending the rest of their extended family here. I see the middle class Americans loosing out here in the job market because employers in certain demographic areas are reluctant to hire english speaking only employees. The other thing employers pull, which is wrong, is to hire illegals through temp agencies. This way, they can say;"Our hands are clean. We had no idea that this agency was hiring illegal aliens".
I have no problem whatsoever with LEGALimmigration. Stop it now before it is impossible to stop in the very near future!

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by ThrowingTimber

You have to decide on a point of view here Flap. You’re on two dif. Subjects. On one hand you’re saying jump in with both feet etc. being welcoming etc.

Then you make a statement like “Learn English.” Very, very bad juju….

Do you for one second think, that folks who would need to use English as a second language, don’t want to learn it?

Think about that for one second…

Why don’t they know English? Yeah, Flap they’re out working!! They don’t have the time to hang with folks and watch tv, hang out at the local bars and pick up a few lines here and there. I know many folks who bust their hump to make ends meet doing the things no one else wants to do. And its not as easy your statement of just become a citizen. The US has not extended Amnesty for some time now, look up facts.

Don’t take this as a personal attack or anything I’m trying to make you realize what you just wrote.

Look into things further, dig deeper before making statements like learn English. I’d LOVE to see you tell my neighbor, who works 8hrs in a factory comes home grabs his lunch and hits job 2 for 8 hours, then does cleaning work on the side… could you as a man honestly tell this gentleman to “Learn English?”

Oh and Flap, the folks who just collect govt’ dough.. yeah we are’nt too keen on ‘em either.. Unless its an actual necessity, Im sure youd agree that ok then. But every group has some. And no one is proud of theirs.

Vic, I hear you but in my business we have classes available and we pay them to go. 8 out of ten refuse on average. That is the bulk of my experience, sorry.

[The Dad Fisherman]

I think the English language thing is upsetting because everybody seems to make the connection that if they don't speak english they are a lesser person. They are Fathers and Mothers that just want a better life for there kids. and they and their families will learn english in time. I still see old ladies in places that are still speaking in Italian, Greek or Portugeuse because they never learned the language when they got here...it doesn't make them any less of a person. Everybody who's grandparents came over here speak English because you Grew Up Here.

There are plenty of welfare recipients that were born and raised in this country and speak perfectly (well sort of) good english. I've seen many 300 pound white women that have a kid every 4.5 years just to keep the checks coming.

I think its far more important for a person to come to this country and work for himself and his famly, and not suck on the Gov't tit, than to learn the language.

If a person comes here, works hard, and strives to be a good citizen...I could give a rat's ass what language he/she speaks. They're OK by Me

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I think the English language thing is upsetting because everybody seems to make the connection that if they don't speak english they are a lesser person. They are Fathers and Mothers that just want a better life for there kids. and they and their families will learn english in time. I still see old ladies in places that are still speaking in Italian, Greek or Portugeuse because they never learned the language when they got here...it doesn't make them any less of a person. Everybody who's grandparents came over here speak English because you Grew Up Here.

There are plenty of welfare recipients that were born and raised in this country and speak perfectly (well sort of) good english. I've seen many 300 pound white women that have a kid every 4.5 years just to keep the checks coming.

I think its far more important for a person to come to this country and work for himself and his famly, and not suck on the Gov't tit, than to learn the language.

If a person comes here, works hard, and strives to be a good citizen...I could give a rat's ass what language he/she speaks. They're OK by Me

I would love to be able to think and feel that way but again I have one shift where the three members all speak different languages and not one is english. They understand the basic premise but not the context. Also, MSDA sheets only come in english and spanish, not Vietnamese, Portugese etc. It's time consuming and also a liablilty that we cannot afford to face to be multi-lingual. As in most other countries there is a national language and here it is english. Being sensitive to others cultural and national backgrounds can only go so far. If you want to work and thrive here learn the language to be at a conversant level. It doesn't mean you have to stop speaking your own at home or out of work or even at work but to understand basic rules, practices etc in the US it should be in English.

[BigBo]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

I would love to be able to think and feel that way but again I have one shift where the three members all speak different languages and not one is english. They understand the basic premise but not the context. Also, MSDA sheets only come in english and spanish, not Vietnamese, Portugese etc. It's time consuming and also a liablilty that we cannot afford to face to be multi-lingual. As in most other countries there is a national language and here it is english. Being sensitive to others cultural and national backgrounds can only go so far. If you want to work and thrive here learn the language to be at a conversant level. It doesn't mean you have to stop speaking your own at home or out of work or even at work but to understand basic rules, practices etc in the US it should be in English.

Exactly! Unification is what made this country as great, and strong as it is. Diversity is also a foundation on which this country was built upon. Diversity without unification will tear down the basic principles by which we live.

[Nebe]

sorry, but if your going to come here, learn english before you come. If I was going to move to China or germany or Italy, i would learn the language before i went. Its called being prepared.

[TheSpecialist]

At our union meeting last night the head of the Political Action Committee was asking why so many of us were against the democrats, who have been traditionally favored by Blue collar unions. The biggest answer was that they are so far out of touch with their own country men. The immigration stuff, anti gun, and taxes are killing them, yet they are too stupid to see it.

[Raider Ronnie]

I have no problem with people coming to this country to make a better life for themselves!
As long as they do it LEGAL !!!
But I know for a fact that a LOT of these people from south of the border have NO intention of staying here and giving back to this country!
They are here to either work around the clock and send every penny back home or to steal enything they can !
Then in 3 to 4 years they go back home and they tell me they can live like kings!
I have a BIG problem with them driving cars with no lics, ins, or registration and they are crashing into honest (legal), paying through the nose people !
I can only imagine what would happen if one of these people were to crash into Bigfish's new truck !!!
new truck

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

At our union meeting last night the head of the Political Action Committee was asking why so many of us were against the democrats, who have been traditionally favored by Blue collar unions. The biggest answer was that they are so far out of touch with their own country men. The immigration stuff, anti gun, and taxes are killing them, yet they are too stupid to see it.

Soulds like you are talking about Ted Kennedy!
Just listen to Howie Carr and hear what he has to say about Ted and this topic!

[TheSpecialist]

This is how stupid the Dumocrats are. If they would ALL be against any new form of gun control, then they would be in the same boat as the republicans, and therefore would be more likely to get the NRA vote, hence winning more seats. That in turn would get some balance out everything. You have a guy like Reilly who is running for Govonor, most if not all sportsmen shoulg vote against him cause of his treatment of the Gun Owners in this state.

[stripersnipr]

No doubt, immigrants do face a grueling process to become legal citizens. With good reason. The basically open borders we currently have are probably the most serious security situation this country has ever faced. Lowering the standards and making it easier for immigrants to naturalize is not the solution. Eliminating the illegal flow and enforcing current immigration standards seems to be the incredibly simple solution here. Leave it to Washington to turn a simple solution into a bureaucratic nightmare. Could that be because that whatever political party actually puts the hammer down on illegals will lose an enermous voting block and will be hard pressed to ever win a major election again?

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Nebe

sorry, but if your going to come here, learn english before you come. If I was going to move to China or germany or Italy, i would learn the language before i went. Its called being prepared.

Just plain dumb logic How many on this board have Eastern European ancestry that came to this country not speaking a word of English?I suppose in your world they were not "prepared".Take it easy Bogart.I guess I'm being naive but I wonder where the English language class is offered in remote villages of Mexico or China.

[Raider Ronnie]

How can it be so easy for these people to get into this country anyway???
I thought after 9/11 security in this country is suposed to be at an all time high!!!

[sok]

Last time I went out of the country was Oct 2001. Right after......
3 hours to get into Canada.
(Because of some of my past misbehavior. I was bad.)
The truck never got taken out of "D" coming back.
120 seconds.
You can't get a burnt coffee from dunkin faster than they let us through.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Just plain dumb logic How many on this board have Eastern European ancestry that came to this country not speaking a word of English?I suppose in your world they were not "prepared".Take it easy Bogart.I guess I'm being naive but I wonder where the English language class is offered in remote villages of Mexico or China.

If someone wants to move to america and possibly take up a job that an american citizen could be hired for, they should be prepared to become an american.. The national language of America is English. plain and simple.

[BigBo]

Originally Posted by Nebe

If someone wants to move to america and possibly take up a job that an american citizen could be hired for, they should be prepared to become an american.. The national language of America is English. plain and simple.

That's the problem. Although english is the national language in the US, it has not been passed through legistration to become the declared official language. It needs to be done NOW!

[Vectorfisher]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

I have no problem with people coming to this country to make a better life for themselves!
As long as they do it LEGAL !!!
But I know for a fact that a LOT of these people from south of the border have NO intention of staying here and giving back to this country!
They are here to either work around the clock and send every penny back home or to steal enything they can !
Then in 3 to 4 years they go back home and they tell me they can live like kings!
I have a BIG problem with them driving cars with no lics, ins, or registration and they are crashing into honest (legal), paying through the nose people !
I can only imagine what would happen if one of these people were to crash into Bigfish's new truck !!!
new truck

So true!! I have been working on a very expensive house on the south shore and the contractor has 4 Brazilian guys working for him so we get to talking and they all have children that live with the grandparents and the husbands and wives all work practically around the clock here, they live in an apartment together (all 8 of them) and they are only here to send the money home. Then today I pull up to a brand new house and must be 12 guys working for a roofing company like bee's all over and only one of them understood english, they were done with the roof by 4p.m on a 3000sq/ft house I will bet my life savings that the only guy making any money was the foreman the rest made POOH and I will also bet 11 of them were being paid cash w/o any benefits or anything else, this goes on a lot more than most think and guys like me have to bid against guys like this roofer