Israel and World War III part four

[spence]

So now the dynamic in the conflict is starting to evolve a bit, and while it still may, doesn't look like it's going to lead to a broader war.

I'm left assessing the situation thinking, could Israel have done anything more to exacerbate the problems of the region?

Their stated plan is failing, Hezbolla has proved their ability to survive and the suffering they have inflicted is causing more terrorist sympathy among the moderate affected population.

The US being the only nation to back Israel has suffered more negativity on the Muslim street...with nothing to show for it.

In fact, the real problems are being delayed...which could be by design.

Israel certainly has a right to defend her citizens...but given that we now see how unrealistic the objective really was...and the damage it's caused...

Do the people who thought this was a good thing maintain their position?

-spence

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by spence

doesn't look like it's going to lead to a broader war.

-spence

With respect.... It has all been leading to broader wars for many years now. I see terrorist attacks worldwide as a broader war. I see this as World War Three yesterday today and tomorrow.

[spence]

My line of thinking is that Bush's leveling with the Blair position will do much to snuff the flame.

Only the hardcore religious whack jobs want to fight this thing out...and there is little representation for that position...regardless what they tell us.

-spence

[basswipe]

Don't forget Al-Queda and the Phillipines.We do have troops have there too.

[spence]

That is true...Asia has problem pockets here and there.

But is it a "war" or rather a global "insurgency"?

I'd vote for the later.

-spence

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by spence

That is true...Asia has problem pockets here and there.

But is it a "war" or rather a global "insurgency"?

I'd vote for the later.

-spence

No argument from me there.

[spence]

Remember that before 9/11 radical Islam was considered to be on the decline...

The threat we face today is certainly real, but has more to do with traditional sociology and politics than religion...not that fanatics don't exacerbate the problem.

If it's a "war" then it had better be a war against disenfranchisement...

And note to self, you can't bomb people to freedom

-spence

[Skitterpop]

any world that can devise and utilize the term ethnic cleansing is obscene


so...what does global insurgency mean? This a new war...not traditional yet a new war of epic proportions.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

so...what does global insurgency mean? This a new war...not traditional yet a new war of epic proportions.

Just as it sounds, it's a rebellion...not a terrorist army being led by one or two people.

Radical Islam is tapping into a very broad and deep sense of rage and frustration spread throughout the world.

If you want to call it a "war" then we're just arguing semantics...but it's an important discinction because it explains a lot of the Administration's behavior...they fully understand what's going on.

Fundamentally, we are not at war with radical Islam. Radicalisim is a very serious exacerbating factor, but it's not the root cause.

Hence Bush asserting that he wasn't really concerned with the location of Osama...which shocked everyone.

Why do you think the Administration has literally ignored the recomendations of the 9/11 comission on making our country more secure? They don't see they short term threat as a high priority because it distracts from the bigger picture.

The notion of making the Middle East more democratic is the right line of thinking, but the execution has been unconscionable.

What's ironic is that for all the "liberal" bashing done by the GOP and their sheep, supporters of this Administration have been duped into supporting a very liberal foreign policy!

Neoconservatisim at it's core is as liberal and undemocratic as authortarian socialisim.

Look at the pissing on the US Constitution, the extreme secrecy and the rampant disregard for International legal and moral institutions that we as a country helped form.

This isn't just random, or even incompetence...a new world order is being rammed down our throats...

And people like Skippy think the problem is Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid

Social conservatives are being manipulated as well, but I'll avoid that so I don't annoy a certain someone

The solution to the threat of terrorisim lies in the magic that's America, but we're just too terrorized by our own leadership to see it...

-spence

[spence]

-spence

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by spence

Just as it sounds, it's a rebellion...not a terrorist army being led by one or two people.

Radical Islam is tapping into a very broad and deep sense of rage and frustration spread throughout the world.

If you want to call it a "war" then we're just arguing semantics...but it's an important discinction because it explains a lot of the Administration's behavior...they fully understand what's going on.

Fundamentally, we are not at war with radical Islam. Radicalisim is a very serious exacerbating factor, but it's not the root cause.

Hence Bush asserting that he wasn't really concerned with the location of Osama...which shocked everyone.

Why do you think the Administration has literally ignored the recomendations of the 9/11 comission on making our country more secure? They don't see they short term threat as a high priority because it distracts from the bigger picture.

The notion of making the Middle East more democratic is the right line of thinking, but the execution has been unconscionable.

What's ironic is that for all the "liberal" bashing done by the GOP and their sheep, supporters of this Administration have been duped into supporting a very liberal foreign policy!

Neoconservatisim at it's core is as liberal and undemocratic as authortarian socialisim.

Look at the pissing on the US Constitution, the extreme secrecy and the rampant disregard for International legal and moral institutions that we as a country helped form.

This isn't just random, or even incompetence...a new world order is being rammed down our throats...

And people like Skippy think the problem is Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid

Social conservatives are being manipulated as well, but I'll avoid that so I don't annoy a certain someone

The solution to the threat of terrorisim lies in the magic that's America, but we're just too terrorized by our own leadership to see it...

-spence

Hey man

[Swimmer]

about the correlation between these muslim fanatics and pre WW 2 Germany. The muslims keep taking away rights like the nazis did. I know I haven't posted much in this thread and I hope no one minds me jumping in, but this morning I had this thought and it has been bothering me ever since. While the whole world looks the other way purposely the muslims are taking over. While the whole world looked the other way Hitler invaded half of Europe. Muslims have no rights and neither will we if we dont stop them.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

What's ironic is that for all the "liberal" bashing done by the GOP and their sheep, supporters of this Administration have been duped into supporting a very liberal foreign policy!


-spence

Absolutely right Spence. Its about time we got a real conservative in the White House. We will all need earplugs to filter out that inevitable high pitched squeal the Leftnuts will subject us to then ( if it can get any worse).

[spence]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

about the correlation between these muslim fanatics and pre WW 2 Germany. The muslims keep taking away rights like the nazis did. I know I haven't posted much in this thread and I hope no one minds me jumping in, but this morning I had this thought and it has been bothering me ever since. While the whole world looks the other way purposely the muslims are taking over. While the whole world looked the other way Hitler invaded half of Europe. Muslims have no rights and neither will we if we dont stop them.

A good observation, but it's not the same this time around.

Certianly Nazisim was able to take hold with Germany's unemployment and poor economy...

But the Global environment has changed the game entirely...the information war has been rewritten.

Now our actions are translated (or manipulated) and broadcast via high-speed link into homes around the world.

There is no time for spin control, as the damage has been done.

We need to measure twice, then cut once...

Instead of wandering about like a drunk with a sawsall.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Absolutely right Spence. Its about time we got a real conservative in the White House. We will all need earplugs to filter out that inevitable high pitched squeal the Leftnuts will subject us to then ( if it can get any worse).

So I'm curious...

What does a real conservative stand for?

-spence

[Skitterpop]

Friday, July 28, 2006
Ancient hatreds hardening in Middle East

In the first days of fighting in the Middle East, some Arab leaders found themselves in the unusual position of criticizing an attack on Israel; suggesting that Hezbollah's kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, the event that started this latest bloodshed, was ill-conceived, risky and wrong.

At that time, the loudest complaints about Israel's actions were coming from Syria and Iran, countries that have backed Hezbollah for years.

But look at how a little more than two weeks can change things.

The Israeli military has been battling Hezbollah nonstop and hammering Lebanon. And now, Middle East watchers say public complaints about Israel's actions are growing noticeably louder throughout the Arab world. The images of Lebanese killed, wounded and fleeing; the pictures of Hezbollah neighborhoods reduced to rubble; the mere thought of Israel attacking on the soil of an Arab country -- these things have triggered many deep-seated and long-lived hatreds.

Some of the Middle East experts I have talked to say this should not be mistaken for the beginning of a massive, pro-Hezbollah movement. Many Arabs, they say, especially those who must live alongside Hezbollah in Lebanon, do not like the group's radical politics and despise its militant methods. But few Arabs say that publicly.

It was explained to me this way: Ask any Arab if he or she supports Hezbollah right now and that person is likely to say "yes," but what they mean is that they are not about to be heard supporting Israel.

Some Arabs have always hated Israel and probably always will. Some Israelis, no doubt, would be happy to be rid of many Arabs. So my question is this: Does it make any difference, with the guns of war pounding, that their hatreds may be hardening even more?

[stormfish]

I don't know what it is about the Jews, but there's always issues with them. For one, Hitler who is a Jew himself, led a campaign to exterminate his own people. Europe then banished the Jews to Isreal, causing conflict with the Arabs. Now it seems the Arabs want to banish the Jews back to Europe. If it was so easy to move all the Jews back to Europe, peace will thrive well in the Middle East. But with so many Jews, where to put them? I think we should take over Mexico and relocate Isreal below the border of Texas/Mexico. Will that anger Latinos? Will the Latinos then become terrorists? Call me a cynic, but I can never see peace between the Jews and Arabs.

[spence]

Ummmmm...."banished" to Israel?

There's an 'ism" word that starts with a 'Z' that you may be overlooking...

-spence

[stormfish]

Zealotism?

for the love of Judea!

[Skitterpop]

Zion ism

[likwid]

3 dozen children dead in one strike.

still worth it?

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by likwid

3 dozen children dead in one strike.

still worth it?

One person dead is not worth it. Though.... if I built my missile launchers into reinforced apartment buildings and was dropping them on your family and friends would you say I cannot strike that building knowing there were women and children there.... when the residents have embraced Hezbollah and are one in the same quite often.

Its a horrble situation. Its a booby trap for any Israel action essentially.

Remember Vietnam

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

Remember Vietnam

My Lai Massacre?

[Skitterpop]

we can play chess but really.... none of us know anything

What is the truth and whose truth is it?

Jettison my escape pod: All life is an illusion

[spence]

There's no parallel to Mai Lai...not that I see.

The real issue here is Israel punishing the Lebanese under the guise of attacking Hezbolla.

If there was any real chance to destroy the group the global perception would be quite different.

Both Israel and Hezbolla have made some serious miscalculations in this conflict...and it's primarily innocents that are bearing the brunt.

-spence

[likwid]

Its about Iran.

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by likwid

Its about Iran.

and all Muslims who advocate jihad

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

and all Muslims who advocate jihad

Jihad is a part of Islam, the problem is in the interpretation of Jihad...

A good book that touches this subject well is "The Trouble with Islam: A Muslim's Call for Reform in Her Faith" by Irshad Manji.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by stormfish

I don't know what it is about the Jews, but there's always issues with them. For one, Hitler who is a Jew himself, led a campaign to exterminate his own people. Europe then banished the Jews to Isreal, causing conflict with the Arabs. Now it seems the Arabs want to banish the Jews back to Europe. If it was so easy to move all the Jews back to Europe, peace will thrive well in the Middle East. But with so many Jews, where to put them? I think we should take over Mexico and relocate Isreal below the border of Texas/Mexico. Will that anger Latinos? Will the Latinos then become terrorists? Call me a cynic, but I can never see peace between the Jews and Arabs.

Hitler was a Jew???????????????????????

[RIJIMMY]

oh by the way stormfish, I just called the nation of the Mohawks and Iroquois, they will come by later today to kick you, and your family off your land. It doesnt "really" belong to you now, does it? You should do whats right and give it back to the natives.