Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Today's Posts Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » The Scuppers

The Scuppers This is a new forum for the not necessarily fishing related topics...

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-14-2007, 12:51 PM   #1
fishpoopoo
Wipe My Bottom
iTrader: (0)
 
fishpoopoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,911
Question $30/bbl Oil by Summer?

Oh, if only this would happen. Setup for a great short and it won't cost me an arm and a leg to fill up the sand sled.



Oil May Drop to $30 as Investors Flee, Bernstein Says (Update1)

By Nicholas Larkin

Feb. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Oil will fall to $40 a barrel by March and may drop to $30 as rising storage costs widen the gap between spot and future prices, leading to a `breaking point' at which passive investors will flee, Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. said.

Oil will slide because greater investment in commodity futures has driven the market into contango, according to analysts led by London-based Neil McMahon. The phenomenon occurs when futures prices rise above spot prices, often reflecting handling or storage costs.

``As storage fills up, storage costs rise and the contango widens,'' the analysts said in a February report. ``At some point, investors will reallocate money away from the commodity funds, causing futures prices to fall.''

Last month, New York-traded crude fell to $49.90 a barrel as warmer-than-expected weather spread across the U.S. and fuel inventories surged. Crude has since risen on a second production cut by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries and a cold snap in the U.S., the world's largest energy consumer.

The ``breaking point'' could come in March if Saudi Arabia, OPEC's largest producer, fails to cut production below 8 million barrels per day, the level needed to keep the market balanced, the Bernstein analysts said. Spare capacity would rise, widening the contango and driving investors out.

Crude oil for March delivery fell as much as $1.36, or 2.3 percent, today to $57.70 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange and traded at $58.02 at 12:08 p.m.

`Staggering' Flow

``The funds flow into commodities in recent years is staggering,'' McMahon and colleagues said. Net assets invested in the Goldman Sachs Commodity Index rose to almost $70 billion in 2006 from $15 billion in 2003, they said. ``The bubble is bound to burst.''

McMahon, 36, joined Bernstein from McKinsey & Co, in 2003. He previously spent three years in the geology departments of BP Plc and BG Group Plc.

``You've got a lot of money coming into commodities from people who want to diversify from bonds and equities,'' Bernstein analyst Ben Dell said by phone today from New York. ``To some extent the bubble has burst. Making money on commodities is not as easy as it was.''

Bernstein has been looking at the problem of passive investment since June 2006, after the market curve changed into contango in Oct. 2005, according to Dell.

``After four years of fund flow into commodity futures, investors in oil are now struggling with how to generate a return with the curve in contango and a negative roll yield,'' he said. Investors can lose money even as oil rises when funds sell expiring contracts and then pay more for future contracts.

Goldman Bullish

Among analysts predicting an increase in oil prices, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. says New York futures may rise to $71.50 a barrel this year because producer investment is ``significantly'' short of requirements.

The price of West Texas Intermediate, the benchmark U.S. crude, may average $69 this year, Goldman economist James Gutman said Feb. 8. The fuel reached a record $78.40 a barrel in New York on July 14.

Royal Bank of Scotland Plc agrees with Bernstein that oil will fall. Prices may drop to $45 a barrel by 2011 because ``the risk of severe supply disruption has receded'' and demand growth is slowing, RBS analyst Thorsten Fischer said Jan. 28. Production investment over the last few years will boost supply, he said.

``Even if Saudi Arabia cuts production, it is effectively creating underground storage, exacerbating the problem by encouraging further oversupply and making any future correction even worse,'' the Bernstein analysts said.

To contact the reporter on this story: Nicholas Larkin in London at nlarkin1@bloomberg.net

fishpoopoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 12:56 PM   #2
striperman36
Old Guy
iTrader: (0)
 
striperman36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 8,760
I guess I should get out of my hedge fund today
striperman36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 01:02 PM   #3
Raven
........
iTrader: (0)
 
Raven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,805
Blog Entries: 1
Thumbs up

well ......... isn't that great news.... thanks! BEN
Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 01:13 PM   #4
fishsmith
DDG-51
iTrader: (0)
 
fishsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,550
Drop the hammer, Full throttle here we come
fishsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 01:29 PM   #5
BigFish
BigFish Bait Co.
iTrader: (1)
 
BigFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
Send a message via AIM to BigFish
Believe it when I see it!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
BigFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 01:41 PM   #6
stripersnipr
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
stripersnipr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plymouth, Ma
Posts: 1,405
Meanwhile our one party Massachusetts system fine tunes their plan to increase gasoline taxes.
stripersnipr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 01:48 PM   #7
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripersnipr View Post
Meanwhile our one party Massachusetts system fine tunes their plan to increase gasoline taxes.
You've got a better plan to pay for your roads and bridges?

-spence
spence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 01:54 PM   #8
Flaptail
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Flaptail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Uh, in a spot....
Posts: 5,451
30 p/bbl of oil? Rev up the engines and dust off the tuna gear, might be affordable this year.

Why even try.........
Flaptail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 02:04 PM   #9
Raven
........
iTrader: (0)
 
Raven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,805
Blog Entries: 1
Thumbs down the scale tips both ways...

but of course....


from CNN

DUBAI (Reuters) -- A Saudi wing of al Qaeda called for attacks on U.S. oil sources across the world, saying targets should not be limited to the Middle East and listing Canada, Venezuela and Mexico as U.S. oil suppliers.
The threat appeared in the al Qaeda Organization in the Arabian Peninsula's e-magazine, Sawt al-Jihad (Voice of Holy War), which was posted on a Web site used by Islamist militants.
"It is necessary to hit oil interests in all regions which serve the United States not just in the Middle East. The goal is to cut its supplies or reduce them through any means," it said.
The group was behind the February 2006 failed suicide attack on the world's largest oil processing plant in Saudi Arabia.
In 2003, al Qaeda militants launched a violent campaign to topple the U.S.-allied Saudi royal family with suicide attacks on compounds housing Westerners and on government buildings.
Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 02:15 PM   #10
stripersnipr
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
stripersnipr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plymouth, Ma
Posts: 1,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
You've got a better plan to pay for your roads and bridges?

-spence
The purpose of the new tax isn't for roads and bridges. The latest propsal is intended to subsidize health insurance for the uninsured.
stripersnipr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 02:24 PM   #11
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripersnipr View Post
The purpose of the new tax isn't for roads and bridges. The latest propsal is intended to subsidize health insurance for the uninsured.
Sounds like it will lower your health premiums...an investment well worth the while

-spence
spence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 02:50 PM   #12
stripersnipr
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
stripersnipr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plymouth, Ma
Posts: 1,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
Sounds like it will lower your health premiums...an investment well worth the while

-spence
I highly doubt I'll "qualify" for lower premiums.
stripersnipr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 07:42 PM   #13
thortum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bean Town
Posts: 466
Just spent $2.35 gal. I think I'm being screwed. Not sure by who.
thortum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 07:45 PM   #14
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by thortum View Post
Just spent $2.35 gal. I think I'm being screwed. Not sure by who.
Probably by stripersnipr, he's using all those gas profits to pay for his new Rolex

-spence
spence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 08:06 PM   #15
stripersnipr
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
stripersnipr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plymouth, Ma
Posts: 1,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
Probably by stripersnipr, he's using all those gas profits to pay for his new Rolex

-spence
I do have my eye on a new Daytona.....they're sweet.
stripersnipr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com