Tax Form Question.....What A Joke! - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

BigFish · 03-13-2007, 05:03 PM

Got a tax form 2 reads "Return of personal property subject to taxation" General Laws Chapter 59 29????? My town sent this to me and basically it is requesting I make a list of all business related power tools, computers, desk chairs, anything related to my business.......when I bought it and how much I paid for it I guess so they can "TAX" me on it again?!?!???!?! Anybody ever hear of such a thing or recieved one of these forms?!?!?!?!? I have talked to a few people who are business owners/self employed and none of them have ever heard of this before?!?!?!?!

I paid friggin sales tax on my stuff when I bought it....WTF?!?!?!?

My neighbor said he got one a few years ago....he lined the trash basket with it!!!

"uffah!!" · 03-13-2007, 05:22 PM

Just remember, there are two (2) things you have to do in this world.
"Die and pay your Taxes"

Slipknot · 03-13-2007, 05:25 PM

THE TOWNS COLLECT AN EXCISE TAX ON ALL business property and call it a personal property tax.

If you are a registered business with your town, they want the tax money. The town also pays someone to drive around and check for signs of businesses at homes that they don't already have listed.

not sure what you received but that is what it sounds like

I pay an excise tax on my equipment used to conduct my business.and I paid the sales tax on it long ago, now I keep paying this excise tax every year just like I do on the car and truck and trailers.

they will depreciate the syuff so you won't have to pay based on the actual cost, you pay on the value of the business property. Someday they will show up to do an audit also. just list a few things and mail it in, they won't know any different.

Backbeach Jake · 03-13-2007, 05:29 PM

The taxman is relentless. If you have a second home, they tax EVERYTHING in it. Towels, sheets, clocks, microwave, art. I was unaware of the business pillage..

Raven · 03-13-2007, 05:32 PM

i wouldn't worry about it Bigfish....

as the usa world turns....your business is small potatoes.

no offense meant... and i had not paid taxes for many years

all caught up now... tho

, but that wasn't the first time

either... so my point is that allot of that stuff is never enforced.

technically....you have to take all your materials...you spent

fixing the plug shack..all the fuel you used and spent $$ cash

to buy...every tool you own and use to make plugs.....the wood,

the paint, chisels, lathe,hardware everything and say its worth x amount of
dollars.....

then compare your current profit margin to that figure....

so .... when your profit margin is at the 100,000.00 level
then they might have an interest. Until then i wouldn't worry.

spence · 03-13-2007, 05:34 PM

Yea, they'll send someone in to count your new office chairs

-spence

Raven · 03-13-2007, 05:47 PM

on the other hand you can offset this excise tax by declaring a room
in your house as an office and then claim the new laptop and printers
everything office related...even pens.
on your long form as a business deduction.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
even if you met say Cranium at Dunkin Donuts for coffee and donuts
to discuss a new prototypes wiggle.... wobble or color that can be
filed as a business luncheon (save every reciept by month) which is tax deductible.
including the gas you burned to drive there and back.

mikecc · 03-13-2007, 06:08 PM

We go thru it every year. all fixtures , machines & inventory.

Karl F · 03-13-2007, 06:23 PM

yep.. normal.. all forms of govt. stick their hands in yer pocket.. be it homeowner, business owner.. home based business.. save all reciepts, pay all taxes, be it excise, personal property,RE, income, Sales Tax.. etc. etc... ya never know when they will want to take a peak.. best to have all your i's dotted and t's crossed....
these days it pays to have a Good Accountant, and a Good Laywer.

BigFish · 03-13-2007, 06:27 PM

Slip....thats what I figured! Thanks guys!

Raven · 03-13-2007, 06:33 PM

every time you go fishing.....
you can write that off as product testing
or research and development......

might be a good idea to buy a good
tax guide for entrepreneurs for
maximum deductions.

ok i'm done...

Mr. Sandman · 03-13-2007, 06:53 PM

The simple answer is to move out of MA, it is downright hostile towards business. Towns, states and fed. IMO any company grossing less then 10 mil/year should not pay any corp tax. You can't harvest fruit if you don't let the plant grow....

"uffah!!" · 03-13-2007, 07:50 PM

Big Fish, its only because they know you are making money hand over fists, and they want their share.

BigFish · 03-13-2007, 08:32 PM

Hand over fist...thats a good one!

capesams · 03-13-2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl F

yep.. normal.. all forms of govt. stick their hands in yer pocket.. be it homeowner, business owner.. home based business.. save all reciepts, pay all taxes, be it excise, personal property,RE, income, Sales Tax.. etc. etc... ya never know when they will want to take a peak.. best to have all your i's dotted and t's crossed....
these days it pays to have a Good Accountant, and a Good Laywer.

amen to this quote....and you can add tax # and insurance to that. Doesn't this sound like a rehash of another thread not long ago?

gone fishin · 03-13-2007, 09:24 PM

Larry I sincerely hope you have a good accountant..Do not do your own tax returns and be careful of the deductions. Take it from one who "been there done that".

BigFish · 03-13-2007, 10:44 PM

I have them done.....my accountant is quite good!

"uffah!!" · 03-14-2007, 08:10 AM

Hey Big Fish!!, Just

RIJIMMY · 03-14-2007, 10:16 AM

BF - remember, all of your expenses are now DEDUCTABLE. Seriopusly, that would mean gas trips to "test" your plugs, plugs you give away for people to test ( if your plugs retail at $20 and you give 5 away for testing) that should be $100 off your income. Computer, including internet, house rental ( you rent your business space from your home), any elxpense related to your plug business. This is not cheating, you will pay taxes on what you earned. Earnings = revenue minus ALL your expenses (realted to your business). A good accountant may be your best bet, spending a few hundred may save thousands.

spence · 03-14-2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

A good accountant may be your best bet, spending a few hundred may save thousands.

Hey, that's catchy

-spence

capesams · 03-14-2007, 11:21 AM

Better read the fine print,,thats only good for a loss up to 3 years on deductions...then you better start showing a profit or they'll hit you from both sides..

accountants arn't responsible for their accounting work that they do for you...cause you gave them the paper work..if a red flag goes up..your on your own.Every account will tell you a different story when it comes to what you can and can't take....there is no list/book to go by..you just guess and hope your not called in.

RIJIMMY · 03-14-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capesams

Better read the fine print,,thats only good for a loss up to 3 years on deductions...then you better start showing a profit or they'll hit you from both sides..

accountants arn't responsible for their accounting work that they do for you...cause you gave them the paper work..if a red flag goes up..your on your own.Every account will tell you a different story when it comes to what you can and can't take....there is no list/book to go by..you just guess and hope your not called in.

no, you're thinking if its a loss. You can only claim a loss for 3 years. your profits are always less your expenses.
If a plug costs 10 to make and you sell for $20, you dont pay tax on 20, you pay on 10. That 10 should include ALL costs associated with your business.

capesams · 03-14-2007, 05:28 PM

What I was saying is that if you sink[spend] $10,000.00 in setting everything up..they give you 3 years to break even on what you've spent...expenses vs profits....after those 3 years are up that you should be making a profit beyond expenses..otherwise something starts to smell fishy to them.You can't have a loss in your operation year after year after year.

Everything you buy to set up shop with that you'll need to make that product that doesn't go out to get sold ,the state will tax you on it[in manufacturing]..they call it use tax..your town will tax the same items too...it's called excise tax.Everyone going to get a cut of your money but you.

Gloucester2 · 03-15-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capesams

What I was saying is that if you sink[spend] $10,000.00 in setting everything up..they give you 3 years to break even on what you've spent...expenses vs profits....after those 3 years are up that you should be making a profit beyond expenses..otherwise something starts to smell fishy to them.You can't have a loss in your operation year after year after year.

Close - but no cigar Steve. You're referring to the IRS "hobby/loss" rules . . . the general guidance is that if you don't generate a profit in 3 out of 5 years the IRS may question whether the "business" is just a "hobby". The usual example in business school is and "artist" that goes into business . . . may sell a painting or two generating some income but expenses greatly exceed income. The IRS will let it slide for several years but may question it at some point as a hobby. The best way to demonstrate it is a "business" is advertising, business cards, a store location, etc.

I can think of many businesses that go thru cycles of loosing money for many years . . . hospitals for instance.

Some one page JPowers - he's the real accountant around here

BigFish · 03-15-2007, 10:37 AM

My biggest question is the tools I have....I bought them all before I became a "business".....they were not a write-off so how can they tax me on them???

Gloucester2 · 03-15-2007, 10:48 AM

"Technically" <someone better really call JPowers now> they should be "converted" from personal property to business property at their fair market value when the business commenced . . . I know, I know a quagmire when we're talking about dozens of hand tools, uncertain values, mixed business and personal use, etc. - but accountants gotta eat too

Create an inventory, come up with a reasonable value, take a deduction for depreciation (3 years seems like a reasonable useful life) and the savings will more than offset any excise/use tax you may incur.

That will be one plug please

Just kidding !

gOOD LUCK.

Karl F · 03-15-2007, 11:50 AM

yep G2..
BigFish INC. buys out BigFish Larry Hobbyist.... Corparate aqusition, so to speak

Raven · 03-15-2007, 02:32 PM

Larry you should have that tool inventory on paper in a safe place
in case of fire or theft anyways.

Tagger · 03-17-2007, 03:45 PM

That sux Larry ,,, sounds like the old Whitey shakedown of buisness owners .. Pay me for protection of us .. Maybe it wasn't so bad when England ran the show here .

Karl F · 03-18-2007, 09:28 AM

There is talk of doing this on the cape in some towns on Personal Property for homeowners.. have them inventory appliances, high end TV's, Stereos, PC's, electornics.. etc... Tools.. etc.. and pay an excise tax on that.. I know in Eastham, if you own a house or cottage and rent it.. you got to do that on the appliances already, guy who works part time with me has a small rental cottage, and he just got whacked with it...

As that *&%*! Tip O'Niel used to say.. "All Politics is Local"... well, All Corruption is Too.. Starts right at everybodys local Town Hall and Goes Up the Ladder all the way to DC.. Both Sides of the Aisle.. Thieving Bastages...

BUT.. if it's the Law.. ya better pay