girl solo sailor epibs went off this AM

[Mr. Sandman]

Emergency rescue effort is launched for teen sailor Abby Sunderland


For some reason sailors see this youngest kid to sail the globe claim as some holy grail and it causes many to chase it....when in effect most of these kids have never seen or sailed in real heavy weather in the mid ocean for months on end. My question is...who pays for her rescue? This is a pointless award and since she pursued it on her own...Send the bill to her folks. I hope she is OK... she has more balls than I do.
(I can tell you I would not let my kid sail the globe alone...I don't care how good a sailor he/she was, too much can (and will) go wrong.)

[Jim in CT]

Any parent who would even consider allowing their 16 year-old to do this is bonkers. This is a case of parents wanting their kids to think they're "cool", instead of being parents, which is about more than being liked.

I can easily see why a kid would want to do this. That's precisely why kids need parents, and the parents are supposed to be wiser than the kids. Not in this case.

This really, really frosts me. They are unimaginable morons. They'll probably react by saying "it's great she got to die doing what she loved", or some other such nonsense.

[nightfighter]

Solo offshore voyage goes against any premise of good seamanship in my book. Nevermind a circumnavigation.... and that goes for the whole lot of them, from Joshua Slocum, to Chichester, and Dodge Morgan too.....

[likwid]

By the time I was 16 I had more miles offshore (and standing watches on my own) than most people ever will in their lifetimes.

To make blanket judgements upon the parents or whomever is ignorant and stupid.

So Sandman, according to who is RTW by 16 a "holy grail to sailors"?

Where's the outrage over the 14yo or whatever climbing Everest? Thats pretty stupid considering you ARE dying at that altitude.

[nightfighter]

[QUOTE=likwid;772979]By the time I was 16 I had more miles offshore (and standing watches on my own) than most people ever will in their lifetimes.

QUOTE]

You know my resume, I know yours... But we're not talking solos... I would not put a kid in the Southern Ocean alone at this time of year. I saw it once, in the summer. That was enough to convince me I need never go back there. And that was on a 60', with 11 in crew.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

You know my resume, I know yours... But we're not talking solos... I would not put a kid in the Southern Ocean alone at this time of year. I saw it once, in the summer. That was enough to convince me I need never go back there. And that was on a 60', with 11 in crew.

My weather router says "its a bit rough but manageable".
Been on the sat for 2 days trying to fix the engine, maybe she's giving up?

[Jim in CT]

Likwid, I'm not ignorant, nor am I stupid. I'd be more than hapy to trade wits with you in any manner you wish.

I'm glad you didn't get hurt when you were doing those things at 16. However, if you think that means anything at all about the recklessness of other kids sailing around the world solo, you are the one who is ignorant and stupid. My grandfather smoked 2 packs a day, and lived to be 100. Does that mean cigarettes aren't dangerous? Just because YOU got through something unscathed, doesn't mean it's not asenine for someone else to attempt it. Try taking statistics 101, you can't draw conculsions from one observation.

And I'm equally critical of anyone who would allow a young teenager to climb Everest. This post was about sailing around the world, so I'm sorry I didn't mention every other idiotic thing some dumb parents let their kids do, like climbing everest, flying solo around the world, doing deepwater freedive competitions, etc...

This kid should have been thinking about the prom, going to pop concerts, going on dates, and otherwise driving her parents crazy the way teenagers do. She had a whole life ahead of her, presumably snuffed out because her parents were grotesquely negligent in keeping her safe, which is the first and foremost job of any parent.

[Mr. Sandman]

Likwid....I'd just knew you would reply!!!

Again, I don't care how many at sea hours a person has... solo RTW contests are not a good idea. I agree with you on Everest but most of those are not solo. I also think if they rescue someone from extreme mountain climbing they should pass on the rescue bill to them. Same thing for the guy who rowed across.

As you know from all your hours at sea, unforeseen stuff can happen which can not easily be resolved with one person on board...even with the best planning and best equipment. It will be days before they reach her and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in rescue operations.

The girl from Australia recently made it and I followed her all winter online. Thought she was nuts as well as her parents but it was entertaining.

[FishermanTim]

I would like to know what experience this kid has to warrant allowing her to do this alone. I can't believe that at 16 she has had enough experience to venture out solo. I know people have had sea-worthy experiences in their early teens, but I doubt they were solo ventures out into the open ocean for a intercontinental voyage.

I also thought that the 14 yr. old climbing Everest was idiotic as well.
Hell, it's idiotic for adults as well.
They had a show on a year or so ago about one expedition on Everest where people died and almost everyone suffered disfiguring frostbite on their face, hands and feet. These same people say they don't regret it (Sure, one adventure has changed your life FOREVER, and not in a good way, and you don't regret doing it?)

But back to the oceanic adventure....If she is found and rescued safely, she and her family should be MADE to pay for the rescue.
If she isn't found, they should pay for the attempt just the same.

If you can't afford to pay, you can't afford to play!

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

Likwid....I'd just knew you would reply!!!

Yup. Just waiting for his reply to being referred to as ignorant and stupid

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

As you know from all your hours at sea, unforeseen stuff can happen which can not easily be resolved with one person on board...even with the best planning and best equipment. It will be days before they reach her and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in rescue operations.

Yeah, so? Itsh happens. Boats break. Things break down. Suck it up with a cool head. Welcome to the game.

And I'd bet the number of stupid calls the USCG gets between BB and Vineyard Sound each summer costs more than this one girl will cost the French Navy.

[Jim in CT]

So likwid, you weren't even talking about solo time offshore?

I was once on an aircraft carrier in the Persial Gulf with the USMC. No one drowned that day. Can I therefore claim that it's reasonable for a 16 year old to sail solo around the world?

[MarshCappa]

I hope they find her safe.

[Mr. Sandman]

I would not know about the number of rescue calls but personally, I don't see a BB buoy and mid ocean rescue in the same category.

Sittin in that raft in a 60kn blow for days is not fun. But I hope she made it into the raft!

[Nebe]

I could have done this at 16 too. What likwid isn't saying and should, is that there are some kids born into sailing and others are not. I have no knowledge about this girl, but at 16, i could have done it, and I know likwid could have too.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I could have done this at 16 too. What likwid isn't saying and should, is that there are some kids born into sailing and others are not. I have no knowledge about this girl, but at 16, i could have done it, and I know likwid could have too.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Except you would have gotten sea sick

hopefully she makes it out.

I don't understand the solo rtw mentality, but won't criticize it here.

[Nebe]

yeah i would have gotten seasick, but it only lasts for 2 days then i am fine

[Jim in CT]

Eben, I have been on sailboats maybe 5 times in my life, so I can't claim any technical knowledge. I'll assume that at 16, you and likwid had the technical sailing skills to handle most situations.

That you "could" have done it at 16 is not the same thing as saying it would have been a good idea. That's where parents are supposed to step in, because the extra wisdom and experience that parents are supposed to have, enables them to differentiate between what's possible, and what's advisable.

I have a 15 year-old. I could kick her out of the house, and she could get a job somewhere and make enough to pay her rent and buy food. And even though there are times when I'm sure that idea is appealing to her (every time I say "no"), I wouldn't let her do it. It would not be in her best interests, it would not improve her chances of having a fulfilling future. She may not agree with that, but I know it for a fact. I know that, and she doesn't, because I'm more mature and more experienced than she is.

Finally, how long does it take to sail around the world solo? A few months? I'd question the saity of any parent who could be without their 16 year-old for that long, under any circumstances.

This is all just my $0.02 obviously. Maybe reasonable people can disagree, but I don't see it. I can usually see both sides of any issue, but not here. Rarely do I see things as obviously right or wrong, but this is to me.

Anyway, you do know how to disagree respectfully, and that's rare. And I envy your vast marine experience, I'm pretty new to all this.

God Bless.

[Jim in CT]

Eben, continuing on the "just cuz you could do it, doesn't mean I'll let you do it" theme...

My 15 year old daughter goes to a private school, and is really into classical music. Her music class wanted to do an UNSUPERVISED, OVERNIGHT trip to NYC (to see 3 concerts over 2 days). Again, these were high school sophomores, unsupervised.

Now, my daughter is pefrectly capable of getting on a train, getting off at the right stop, walking to a hotel, feeding herself, finding the concert, etc...There was no one skill required that she doesn't have. That being said, never in a million years would I have ever let her do it. Buit there were parents who said OK. I was simply stunned.

Too over-protective for you? You seem very thoughtful, so I'm curious what your opinion is...

[Duke41]

Her boat is frigging tiny. If I was on the Southern Ocean I would want to be on the NIMITZ. I think her parents are morons. Hopefully they did not allow her to kill herself.

[stcroixman]

I hope she is rescued alive. I don't understand why this would interest a 16 year old unless she has $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and is looking for thrills.


She should be in school. I agree these parents allowing teenagers to climb everest and RTW solo are stupid. Then again taking drugs is stupid and at one time I was pretty stupid.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Eben, continuing on the "just cuz you could do it, doesn't mean I'll let you do it" theme...

My 15 year old daughter goes to a private school, and is really into classical music. Her music class wanted to do an UNSUPERVISED, OVERNIGHT trip to NYC (to see 3 concerts over 2 days). Again, these were high school sophomores, unsupervised.

Now, my daughter is pefrectly capable of getting on a train, getting off at the right stop, walking to a hotel, feeding herself, finding the concert, etc...There was no one skill required that she doesn't have. That being said, never in a million years would I have ever let her do it. Buit there were parents who said OK. I was simply stunned.

Too over-protective for you? You seem very thoughtful, so I'm curious what your opinion is...

My thoughts are that there will be a time in your life where you will have to let go of your daughter. The earlier you allow your child to think on his/her own, the stronger person that they will grow to be. Some learn by experience, some learn by failure. The longer you hold your daugther by the reigns, the more you risk extreme failure later on.. For example.. When you see college kids going nuts at spring weekend down south, binge drinking and acting wild, I guarantee you that these people are people who were actively held back in their early teens. Like I said, I grew up on boats- my family would rent out our house in the summer and we would live on our 60 foot steel ketch, but when i was in highschool, I was trusted by my parents to run free.. my friends and I all drank on the weekends, and we all hung out with the local colllege kids... when it was time for me to go to college, I felt like a grad student. I watched all of my peers go crazy because this was their first taste of freedom..
My point is that when parents dont let their kids think for themselves, they are in effect, not letting their kids learn how to think.

getting back to sailing around the world... The first person to sail around the world alone at a young age was Robin Lee Grahm.. he was my idol as a child. While other kids worshiped football players, i was thinking that I could have done what he had done.. he wasn't `16 though.. i think he was a bit older.

[Nebe]

What i want to know about this girl is how much experience did she have before she set off on this trip? what sort of long distance sailing did she have before this? If its not much, i will agree with you guys that this is irresponsible. If she has grown up on the water and has a lot fo bluewater sailing under her belt, i say kudos to her.

I just hope she is OK

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Duke41

Her boat is frigging tiny. If I was on the Southern Ocean I would want to be on the NIMITZ.

Tiny?
I'd rather be in a "tiny" well built boat than a cruise ship on which half the electronics don't even work.

But thats just me.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Except you would have gotten sea sick

hopefully she makes it out.

I don't understand the solo rtw mentality, but won't criticize it here.

A wiser person once said "if you've never been seasick, you've never been in a real sea". They're right.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by likwid

Tiny?
I'd rather be in a "tiny" well built boat than a cruise ship on which half the electronics don't even work.

But thats just me.

I looked at her boat, and I would pass on it and choose something heavier with a full keel. Her boat is built to go fast, not be super safe.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[likwid]

Wild Eyes is a VERY well built Open 40 (she's been in Newport a couple times and I've been on her) and is Cat 0.

Wild Eyes is designed for travel in the Southern Ocean and is equipped with 5 air-tight bulkheads to keep her buoyant in the event of major hull damage. It is built to Category 0 standards and is designed to self-right in the event of capsize.

So far what I'm hearing is she went through a couple knockdowns. Probably lost the rig.

[Nebe]

watertight bulkheads don't keep you from being knocked down. Open 40's are giant lasers
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Nebe

watertight bulkheads don't keep you from being knocked down. Open 40's are giant lasers
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

But Open 40's certainly right a hell of alot better than lasers do when knocked down. .

So you loose the rig and electronics? Seal her up, hang out in your bunk and light off the epirb.

Psychiatrists once said that it was mentally impossible to go around the world solo non-stop. Then they said it was impossible to go around in under 80 days.

Boy were they all wrong.

[MarshCappa]

Are you sure about not super safe Nebe? I mean it's all realative but that thing has 5 air tight bulkheads plus a detatchable pod that is fully enclosed if any part of the hull is breached. It looked solid to me for what she is doing. Her background is solid with parents and siblings that are on their game. Take a look at this link. As a parent of a 13 year old girl I feel for these parents. I must say though I grew up around sailboats but by no means did I do anything in this class but I can relate to these parents and this kid having something special inside that drives them to do this. If you have never done or experienced this drive to accomplish something tuly amazing you wouldn't know how much it can consume you. I think these parents did ok and I don't criticize them. The ocean has a power that can affect us all in different ways. This family lives to be on the water and it is their life. God I hope they find her safe though. She seems like a special girl.

Abby Sunderland, 16-year-old Thousand Oaks, Cal... - Bing Video