lure modifications

[Roccus]

I'm writing an article for On the Water magazine (Cape Cod based) on modifying off-the-rack fishing lures. Anyone have any things they do to alter or change lure action, add ot or take away from stock lures? What changes do you make? What tools if any do you need to do it? What's the effect on the lure's action? What are you trying to "sell" the fish on? What species does it work with?

My deadline is Feb 15th...appreciate any thoughts, ideas, or things you've heard about other fishermen doing.

[Slipknot]

I myself don't do much other than changing the trebles to singles. Then there are the lures that you can drill a small hole in and inject some fluid for ballast. Or add lead to wooden plugs. Painting bigger eyes on some plugs to look more like a squid. I saw on one site that some guys down in the Chesapeake fused 2 plastic assasin type lures together to cull out the smaller bass. Also upgrade the hooks to VMC. There's a million things I'm sure.

[JohnR]

Not much in addition to what's above other than injecting menhaden oil as the fluid Slip suggested with allowing a trickle of sento come out, using BBs or split shot in a plastic plug for better casting. Removing rear treble and replacing with a single bucktail hook. Snapping off part of the plastic front dive plate to make a swooping wobble. Eelskins on the plugs and crushing barbs on hooks for quick schoolie release.... 'Bout all I can think of at the moment...

[JeffH]

I always remove the rear treble hook from my pencil poppers and replace with single that has white saddle hackle..........Let's see how do you modify a live eel?

[Got Stripers]

John, I've used Fish Oil (menhaden) as an additive to my plastics on occassion, however when the only bottle I bought is gone, I won't replace it. As someone on SOL pointed out, supporting any facit of the netters that continue to erode the poggie population, would be wrong. I will go back to the scents I used before, which always worked fine anyway, rather than give those damn netters any more reasons to be out there.

Tight lines and did you get my email this afternoon?

[Mike P]

John--sorry to have to interject a negative note here--but as someone who has had articles published that were entirely my own creation, I have a problem with what Roccus is doing here.

I don't mind sharing information with anyone out of the goodness of my heart, that'll help that person become a better fisherman. But I have a big problem with feeding ideas to a guy that is going to publish them under his name, as his own work, and collect a check for it. Unless Roccus intends to give about 50 people credit as "contributors" to his article--which even if he did, OTW wouldn't publish because it would waste ad space.

[Roccus]

JeffH (02-07-2001 20:06):
I always remove the rear treble hook from my pencil poppers and replace with single that has white saddle hackle..........Let's see how do you modify a live eel?

Funny you should ask, but I have a few lead wobble plates left from my old Alou elvers and when I'm fishing down around Cuttyhunk and want to get my eel deeper I tie one of those on the line, put the hook through chin & eye and let the stinger hook trail...adds movement to either live or dead eel and works really well in strong rips & heavy currents...

Jerry

[Roccus]

Slipknot (02-07-2001 15:38):
. I saw on one site that some guys down in the Chesapeake fused 2 plastic assasin type lures together to cull out the smaller bass. Also upgrade the hooks to VMC. There's a million things I'm sure.

Nice.Thanks.

[Roccus]

John R (02-07-2001 16:57):
. Snapping off part of the plastic front dive plate to make a swooping wobble. Eelskins on the plugs and crushing barbs on hooks for quick schoolie release.... 'Bout all I can think of at the moment...

Appreciate it...thanks.

[Slipknot]

You make an excellant point Mike. You guys that have been around the block a few times know alot. I guess I replied without thinking too much about it. I just figured the guy needed some more tips or advice, although I did think it's a little odd that his deadline is only 8 days from now.

What is the deadline for Rocc us?


There sure are alot of things to think about before you go diving in to writing for magazines like Saltwater Sportsman or any of those fishing mags.

[Roccus]

Mike P (02-07-2001 20:58):
John--sorry to have to interject a negative note here--but as someone who has had articles published that were entirely my own creation, I have a problem with what Roccus is doing here.

I don't mind sharing information with anyone out of the goodness of my heart, that'll help that person become a better fisherman. But I have a big problem with feeding ideas to a guy that is going to publish them under his name, as his own work, and collect a check for it. Unless Roccus intends to give about 50 people credit as "contributors" to his article--which even if he did, OTW wouldn't publish because it would waste ad space.

I understand the issue you raise and I guess in one sense it has merit, but another way of looking at it is that there are thousands of tips, tricks and ideas out there that none of us in our lifetime would be likely to come up with through individual personal contacts & conversations. Seems to me a lot of people are going to read and learn about what other fishermen are doing to fool the fish. When/if you read the article, I think it'll will be clear to everyone reading it that these are not MY ideas but came from a whole bunch of people. I've freely given tips, ideas, interviews & so forth to other writers often & I guess Ill keep on doing it in the future. I know they're getting paid for an article but, what the heck, as you ought to know if you're writing regularly for fishing magazines, this is a tough dollar and none of us are getting rich...well, maybe a couple of publishers. I guess we just see it differently, Mike.

Say, why is everybody calling me John? Is that posted someplace? My name is Jerry Vovcsko...I thought that's on my signature...let me know if John slipped in there somewhere.

[Roccus]

Slipknot (02-07-2001 21:14):
You make an excellant point Mike. You guys that have been around the block a few times know alot. I guess I replied without thinking too much about it. I just figured the guy needed some more tips or advice, although I did think it's a little odd that his deadline is only 8 days from now.

What is the deadline for Rocc us?


There sure are alot of things to think about before you go diving in to writing for magazines like Saltwater Sportsman or any of those fishing mags.

Slipknot,

My deadline is Feb 15th & I had fifteen days to complete the piece when it was assigned. Not an unusual timeframe in this business. Please take a look at my response to Mike & if you feel uncomfortable about anything you passed along to me, let me know and I won't use it. But think about this...when you read a fishing report, say Tony Chamberlain's in the Boston Globe, did you think that he ran around that week and fished everywhere from Maine to Cuttyhunk? Nope. Lots of stuff from lots of folks. It's a give and take situation and I feel fine about having given my share, and then some, of free tips, advice, suggestions and ideas over some 56 years of fishing...and will continue to do so when asked.

[Saltheart]

Tough subject. I guess the the best thing is he was right up front with the fact that he's writing an article and seeking info for that article. I do understand though that based on that being whats going on , some people will not want to contribute info. Overall though , I think I like the idea that someone who is going to write an article is out asking questions and soliciting opinions. I also think that the internet is a good way to get peoples opinions fast. So I guess the biggest thing as far as whats appropriate or not is the fact that he was right up front with what he was up to right off the bat.

I would add that I do agree that the author should in some way acknowledge in the article that ideas were contributed by many via the internet.

[JohnR]

Jerry, I'm looking at two heads on this coin. I know Mike and I've seen some of his work and what he has written was very informative and he has put much effort into his work and the final product shows that. Here on the web, he always gives credit where it's due. When he speaks I and many others, listen closely (behold the posse :P ) as he has one of the best reps on all of these sites. So I strongly see his point on this. You did come right out and say that you were trolling for ideas for an article to be published and you recieved some responses from board members, perhaps not as detailed as you wanted (maybe more so) but one of the fantastic things about the internet and these fishing forums is that few questions go unanswered. I probably pulled the trigger pretty quick with an answer myself (not uncommon for me ;D ) but I try to answer questions when I can.
I also, very recently, ran into a fellow that is doing what sounds like an impressive collection (not a volume but a fairly involved piece) on a particular surf fishing subject where he is going out and speaking to many people. I won't mention his name as I don't think it's my place to do so and it may be a bit prematue anyway, but he is soliciting stories from many people for this project. So I see that this is one way of writing. Now my feeling is that I don't have a problem with it as long as the credit is given. Not in a monetary or personally my name or this site (not that I'd mind but I doubt OTW would print it without me forking out for a quarter page ad) , JMO, but if you sincerly note in the article where you've gotten this info and that it is not all yours, I wouldn't be against including it. That is how I feel but on this case I can't speak for the others that offered suggestions. That's up to them. You say that you will show that this is a collection of yours and of others, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. If I were to read the article, and I will if it's published and felt that we were misled, I would have a problem with it. As reputations develop on the Internet, especially when it comes to fishing stripers, they are lasting and few people forget.

I think the "John" part was they were tryiing to grab my attention...

Mike, I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt here that he will stand by what he says he intends to do and show that this is a collection of information from many people and not entirely of his own doing. With that in mind, this is still open for further discussion.

[Roccus]

[b]Now my feeling is that I don't have a problem with it as long as the credit is given. Not in a monetary or personally my name or this site (not that I'd mind but I doubt OTW would print it without me forking out for a quarter page ad) , JMO, but if you sincerly note in the article where you've gotten this info and that it is not all yours, I wouldn't be against including it. That is how I feel but on this case I can't speak for the others that offered suggestions. That's up to them. You say that you will show that this is a collection of yours and of others, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. If I were to read the article, and I will if it's published and felt that we were misled, I would have a problem with it. As reputations develop on the Internet, especially when it comes to fishing stripers, they are lasting and few people forget.

I think the "John" part was they were tryiing to grab my attention...

.

John, I appreciate your comments on the controversy that seems to have developed around this issue. And the last thing I want to do is leave anyone feeling like their ideas were "stolen", so let me start this by saying that if anyone has had second thoughts and would prefer to withdraw whatever tip they sent along, just post me a note and I'll not use their suggestion. That does get a bit complicated when that particular idea may have come from multiple responses, but I'll do the best I can with it.
Also, I've become almost as interested in the negative response that some folks have had to my request as I am about the original topic. I'm going to sit down with the editor (Gene Bourque) and review what's happened and see what his thoughts might be. I'll post that here on the forum...with the advent of the Internet as a major form of communication, it seems to be an issue that will likely repeat itself. Twenty years ago, in an article of this sort I would have called around to a few of my fishing buddies and said, "Hey Charlie, I'm doing this lure article and have you got any neat ideas to offer...", perhaps make a few calls to tackle shops and a lure manufacturer or two and that's how the piece got written. The only difference now, is I also posted the question here in a fishing forum. I thought some folks would have ideas that they did not want to necessarily make public - I know that when you've discovered something that works after a lifetime of paying dues you may not want to distribute it to the world - but I felt those folks would simply not offer a response.
A few respondents seem offended that I wil write an article that I am going to get paid for. Let me put it this way: I'm 62 years old and have been fishing for nearly 57 of those years. It has taken me almost as long to learn to write competently as it has to learn to fish successfully. To my mind, I've more than paid my dues in both areas. I don't mean it to be arrogant, but it is as much for how I write as it is for what I write that I'm paid at all and published regularly. I make no apologies for that and if anyone asks my help in attempting to become a published writer I will, and have many times, freely offer whatever assistance I can give.
Sorry to go on at length but I respect a person's concerns and I want to give those concerns a serious response.
Hope this helps bring additional perspective to the issue at hand.

[nor-easter]

And what is the "oldest profession on the earth"...

Clue: it isn't writing articles!!


But "ethics" would dictate that a writer acknowledge his "Source".
Since discussions with certain folks at OTW over the past few years I have seen several articles, the subjects of which were discussed with those people as forth coming in the book I am writing. It may not be idea theft but it sure makes me shy of offering help or posting tips...

[nor-easter]

Follow-up
This guy has been on several of the "Boards" asking the same questions...
Suggestion to all board readers...
Send complaints to On The Water Magazine
www.onthewater.com key on comments..
let the editors know how "youfeel" about this type of action!
They are getting an e-mail from me shortly.

[JohnR]

Jerry,

The more I'm thinking about this, the less I'm thinking it is a good idea. You were up front about what you wanted and I think we all appreciate that. You are trying to do just what you said you would. But this raises alot of questions, ethical and more. If people that have offered you info wish that you use it, that's OK. But I'm little hesitant at this point. One aditional consideration with this is that someone may try and actually be successful with slipping a fast one by you and that would at least damage your credibility. Now, you've been fishing for 50+ years, the chances of someone pulling a fast one on you may be small but it can still happen. No good to get gut-hooked, OK?

But you are right, I think it would be wise to table this way of soliciting opinions for now until a better approach is available or until this becomes more accepted.

Thanks,

John

BTW - I am wondering why this question was posted on several different sites but not the one that you are associated with. Was it there and I just missed it??

[Roccus]

<<<BTW - I am wondering why this question was posted on several different sites but not the one that you are associated with. Was it there and I just missed it?? >>>

John,
I was wandering around online and ran across your forum and stripersonline so I thought I'd post the question. I had intended to put it up on Noreast and a couple of others as well but never got there. Instead I got sidetracked by the personal animosity in some of the responses and found myself spending way more time than I had intended answering people's concerns. I spoke with Gene B. (editor) about it and his view of the situation ws basically, forget the forums...it's not worth the aggravation, a perspective I'm becoming more and more inclined to embrace.

I guess my best answer to the folks who crave individual credit as well as payment for any word of wisdom they may utter is: By all means, sit right down today, write an article yourself and send it somewhere so that we may all be enlightened. Surely recognition and wealth will undoubtedly follow close at hand.

It's been an interesting visit to the forum, John. Puts me in mind of an old Hungarian curse: May you live in interesting times.

As I review the commentary one more time I find myself thinking, Good lord, it's not nuclear secrets we're talking about. It's just some stuff that may help somebody out there to catch fish. I'm particularly struck by the way a few folks have decided there's some sort of conspiracy afoot. Sorry guys, there's no grassy knoll. Just a writer doing his job, ever fascinated by the foibles of his fellow man.

[JohnR]

Roccus (02-08-2001 14:08):
As I review the commentary one more time I find myself thinking, Good lord, it's not nuclear secrets we're talking about. It's just some stuff that may help somebody out there to catch fish. I'm particularly struck by the way a few folks have decided there's some sort of conspiracy afoot. Sorry guys, there's no grassy knoll. Just a writer doing his job, ever fascinated by the foibles of his fellow man.

Actually, I was being honest in my "BTW" on if you had asked about it over there. Not trying to instigate or insinuate any "conspiracy theory". Just an honest question. Please understand that as so. And you are right again, these aren't nuclear secrets (although if those secrets were as closely held as some fishing spots... :P ).

Instead I got sidetracked by the personal animosity in some of the responses and found myself spending way more time than I had intended answering people's concerns. I spoke with Gene B. (editor) about it and his view of the situation ws basically, forget the forums...it's not worth the aggravation, a perspective I'm becoming more and more inclined to embrace.

I don't see too much animosity here directed at you so far. Worst case,I see people not happy with with what has transpired and they that do not agree with what you are trying to do here and at best I see everyone being honest with you and voicing opinion in a sincere manner but again, I'm not seeing much animosity - in fact, what I'm seeing is FAR MILDER than what often happens on the semi-anonymous Internet.

Thanks,
John

*** Jerry, I also want to add this. I don't want you to think that you are not welcome here. This has dredged up some opposing views from people but that is also what makes these places tick. That there can be a pretty open forum. You were honest and upfront when you first posted and that means something. So you apear to be someone that most if not all of us could sit down and have a beer with and agree to disagree peacefully (hope that makes sense, long day).

Thanks,

John

****

[Saltheart]

I still don't see any problem with the original request for info that Jerry has made in a straight forward fashion. However , I do think its a mistake to try to say that there is something wrong with people openly objecting to this approach. Jerry , Mike P came right out and told you he doesn't like the idea and he told you why. He did it in the same straight forward , open manner with which you made the request. I don't think there was animosity in that response. Just a clearly stated opinion.

I would be very careful not to redirect the conversation from a discussion of the merits of the original request to some sort of personal confrontation. Everyone is entitled to an open and honest opinion here. If it gets personal , people will line up behind Mike P who is a long time contributer and who is a personal friend of a number of us. He's just as entitled to his opinion about your request as you are in making the request in the first place. My opinion only , of course.

[Roccus]

<<<So you apear to be someone that most if not all of us could sit down and have a beer with and agree to disagree peacefully (hope that makes sense, long day).>>>

Point taken, John. And I apologize if I seemed too feisty over this. I got hammered pretty good in more personal terms over on the stripersonline site and probably misplaced some of my own irritation.
thanks for the kind note.

[Slipknot]

If you still want my opinion Roccus, I would say that there are other ways to research this question on the internet. The first that comes to mind is to do a search using the search feature ( I don't know if John has one here but I know SOL has one ) I can see why , with only 15 days to write this that you needed some quick replys to your plea for help. I don't mind helping other fisherman and maybe if there is some reference to your sources it's no big deal if the very few thoughts I posted get used they're no secrets. If you have been fishing longer than I have been alive then you must know of plenty of modifications also.

Also there could be a whole seperate article on the other subject of using the internet to help one with fishing and getting started in this wonderful activity we all enjoy.
I gotta run now.

[fisninrookie1]

Holly Shmooks....

Roccus, I have no problem with your question...your intentions were clearly stated in your first post. If people have problems with it, they should have declined to comment.

I wish I had some good tips, but unfortunately I don't have any. As a fisherman with one year of experience under my belt, I am glad that articles like the one you are writing are published...I have learned to fish from articles like this.

I look forward to reading your article!!

[Roccus]

<<<So you apear to be someone that most if not all of us could sit down and have a beer with and agree to disagree peacefully (hope that makes sense, long day).>>>

John,
I thought I had answered your post but I don't see it on the forum so maybe it went awry. Anyhow, I just wanted to say thanks for the kind note and I do apologize if I sounded feisty in an earlier message. I think I probably misdirected the irritation that I felt about some pretty personal stuff I got hammered with over at stripersonline. I appreciate your comments and maybe some day we'll get a chance to drink a beer and laugh over the whole thing.
Thanks again,

Jerry Vovcsko
aka,

[JohnR]

Roccus, if you've seen this page you probably have seen the "next page" button on the bottom of the screen... And I do agree with Saltheart on alot of this. It's unfortunate that some coals were stoked here but we can move past that. As far as MikeP goes, he has always been very upfront and honest when he speaks and certainly when he objects to something. He also has a long history with many of us. Again, an open forum like this allows people to express their opinions at least until me or Salty need to pull the plug which is extremely rare (you realize you have the POWER to do that, right Saltheart :P ).

Roc and Slip - there is a "search" feature at the top of the page ;D

BTW Roccus, I only drink good beer, no PBRs or Red White and Blues

[Saltheart]

Yes , I understand that I have access to the magic dump button! I think it should be used rarely also.

[JohnR]

Yes, you have the power to jiggle the " cyber flush" handle if the you know what gets too deep :P

But in all seriousness, that very rarely happens which I also think is a good thing. Group hug everyone!!!