RI Barrier Beach Permit - Out-of-State!!! - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

tobias · 06-30-2003, 08:23 AM

Just found out that for Out-of State Barrier Beach Permit that the price has doubled from $50 to $100

This change was implemented last year on 11/7/02. Waiting to hear back from Jeff Willis from Coastal Resources for when the Public Notice was published. It seems they slipped this one by us. Had I known or other out-of-staters, we would have done something about this. Will post more info when I hear back from Mr. Willis.

Tobias

fishweewee · 06-30-2003, 08:34 AM

JohnR · 06-30-2003, 09:08 AM

beachwalker · 06-30-2003, 09:17 AM

Town of Nantucket raised Beach permits from $20 to $50 for residents this year, if purchased BEFORE 5/31. After is $100 !. OUCH !!!

Out of state is $200. Up from $20. DOUBLE OUCH !!!!!!!!

Great Point pass (which is separate) went from $85 to $125. ANOTHER OUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are a member of the TOTR (Great Point, etc.) it is $40. Membership is $40. Get's the person to think a little. Anyone know what impulse buying means ?

The bottom line here is too many beach goers were ABUSING the privilege and more enforcement was necessary. We see it. More cops on town beaches and more rangers out at Great Point.

Don't assume people are rich and they can afford it. It is the cost of doing business.

Sorry to hear about the non info in RI. It was well known here and we just HAD to accept it.
We figured it was better than a filthy beach full of people who really don't give a damn !

The change is amazing. A lot less riff-raff.............

Mr. Sandman · 06-30-2003, 09:32 AM

Beach stickers are getting insane...ESP when you get one and they close the beach for the ******* plovers.
Out here I have been trying to talk up the idea of an "island permit" good for both trustees ($160) and the town beach (Norton point) ($50)

Further, I hear a lot of derby fishermen would like to get a permit for the period during the derby...but don't want to spend the 210 for a week of fishing...I sort of agree and think a derby beach pass (island wide) would be a good thing. The trustees don't want to hear about it and most of the people on chappy don't want *any* vehicles there anyway so getting a discount rate and more vehicles on the beach is just what they don't want. It is going to be an uphill fight.

My wish is that the plovers become extinct and we cannot move on from there.

Saltheart · 06-30-2003, 09:43 AM

Whole thing is a disgrace. We can't control spending so we have to charge user fees up the butt because the stuff they actually admit to as taxes is so high people are screaming. User fees are a disgracefull way of taxing people. If the politicians want to spend the money , it should show up as a new tax so we can vote the tax and spend jerks out.

They think cause someone pays $20 , they won't balk at paying $100 but at some point , people just stop coming. The local restaurants , motels , stores ,etc lose 10 million so the state can collect and extra 100K.

beachwalker · 06-30-2003, 10:32 AM

I hear you guys, particularly Saltheart, but I wondering why there isn't more recognition that the increased fees actually REDUCE pressure on the beach. We see it here (Nantucket). People either will pay to drive on the beach or they won't. It is a privilege. Not a right, in my opinion. I NEVER see the high SUV leaving a disgusting amount of trash on the beach. Yes, they aren't the most modest people but it is their right to buy such a vehicle, wear such clothes, choose to have picnic on the beach, etc.

Here it is the college kid/construction worker type who are the biggest problem. They trash things. I have watched it for two decades. I AM A CONSTRUCTION WORKER. I MAKE THE EFFORT.

I save my change jar for the passes. I make the effort. The extra money is being used by the town to police the summer beach crowd and IT WORKS. Period.

No more big parties at night, money to pick up the crap that people leave behind and BEACH ACCESS INTACT.

In Mass we are lucky to be able to drive on the beach at all. The Plovers actually REDUCE pressure on fishing. I can still walk the waters edge (albeit 2 miles) to some great spots without breaking the plover rules. Yes, it is a pain in the ass but it is life.

Period.

The beaches are a lot cleaner here for it

fishweewee · 06-30-2003, 10:53 AM

I fished the RI 4WD beaches last season.

I didn't notice a huge amount of overcrowding.

I didn't see piles of trash either.

Rhody's beaches are gorgeous and fairly well-kept - New York should have it that good!

This is just a ploy to squeeze more $$$ out of everyone.

-WW

beachwalker · 06-30-2003, 10:59 AM

WeeWee,

I am happy to hear that RI beaches are fine.

The beaches here are pretty nice too, TRASH STANDS OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB. It is easy to spot. Take a closer look. It isn't something that you can see after dark very easily.

The cost of doing business is going up, not down.

I am not blaming you WW but it isn't a ploy here to squeeze more money. They are actually doing MORE. Not paying themselves more. Here it makes sense as I am sure it boes on the Vineyard and Block.

On the mainland you guys are the experts.

Saltheart · 06-30-2003, 01:42 PM

Why not make the fee 10 million if you want to use it to limit access. thatw ay only a couple of really rich people will have the beach all to themselves! The beaches are for everyone. The state didn't build them. Millipns of years of wave action has built them. The state charges us to use something that everyone has a right to. That's a basicly different point of view. We have the right , its not a priviledge!!

179 · 06-30-2003, 02:01 PM

The price increases is simply a plan to limit or reduce the "out of state" vehicles obtaining these passes, which I do understand to some degree.

The 4WD path in my town will get so busy during the summer it gets closed down due to the vehicle limit, funny thing is when you finally do get on the beach you notice that it is filled by mainly "out of state" vehicles which will camp there, so the locals trying to get out to make a few casts or take a swim can not.

beachwalker · 06-30-2003, 02:05 PM

Saltheart,

Your analogy is childish. It was the same defense posture a lot of veteran fisherman took here. And now they are backpedaling because the see the success, firsthand.

Things don't remain stuck in a time warp forever.

Yes we have the right to the beach. But NOT the right to drive anywhere we want on it.

Tell me how long trucks/cars have been successfully driving on the beaches of New England ?

It isn't since the colonial days.

You'll have time to reflect.

People like myself don't continually play the blame game. I observe, react and move forward. Not a lot of screaming going on.
I ain't the only one out here who thinks that way

Your old friend today can become a fresh enemy tonight ( can be an old friend tomorrow, etc.)

Seek first to understand then to be understood........

fishweewee · 06-30-2003, 02:12 PM

I wonder - where is that fee money going?

Into Rhode Island's General Fund?

A lot of good that will do for the beach, I'm sure.

beachwalker · 06-30-2003, 02:49 PM

Oh yea,

"Millions of years of wave action built them"

I'll let you slide on that one.

beachwalker · 06-30-2003, 02:56 PM

179,

Yes. We have the same issues. TOWN beaches. Not State, Region, Nation, Hemisphere, World, Galaxy and Universe.

The person chooses a different beach or they opt to car pool for there day on the sands. They are able to ask themselves "Do I really need to spend $100 on the beach pass ? I am only here for a week ?". Maybe I will walk down.

It is a shame for the OOS fisherman, but how many generations of these incredible Beach fisherman are being upended by this travesty ?

Maybe a couple less pices of jewelry and one less Yankees game and the beach pass is affordable ?

Raven · 06-30-2003, 05:33 PM

my only resolution will be to fish strictly from a boat... which costs more than being a shore fisherman but its worth it.

First you have to be a resident and have a resident sticker to park. Not everyone who wants to go to the ocean can be a town resident. Then because you want to fish only at night they say no over- night parking.
I just toured all of gloucester and rockport and i noticed that what used to be the beauty of the ocean can no longer be seen. (because everyone wants to have their precious view) its insane that you cant see the ocean anymore because houses are in the way.Thats nuts. in my opinion the panoramic views are gone for the most part. they were bought and paid for.... no parking signs
makes it impossible to even enjoy what views are left.

thewaterfordstriper · 06-30-2003, 08:39 PM

i am tired of rhode island. everytime i go onto this site lately, i find out the rhody wants more money. between the license and the beach pass it is going to cost me 135.00 before i even cast a line. that is crazy. i have fished and rode east beach as much as anyone over the last 5 years, and i am telling you that there isn't garbage heaps past the main parking lot or i have i seen 1 person walk or ride in the dune area. the most i have seen is maybe 50 (during peak times) campers parked in two separate lots. if you think there is pressure on the beach from people holding passes than something is wrong with the authority looking. i have seen fireworks and people having parties (not riders, walkers), which means they are coming from all those pretty homes, creating havoc.
my favorite passtime was to meet tobias and fish the beach. now we are going to have to find somewhere else to go because, i am not paying for that.
by the way i am a licensed land surveyor (professional-construction) from conn. that will actually pick up a can that someone else has left and there isn't any people swimming in the middle of september, when the actual beach opens.

Saltheart · 07-01-2003, 12:16 PM

If you put yourself in the average persons shoes , you would see that coastal access has become a rich mans game. Those who have money have bought up the coast and the rights to it. Do you think cause you have the million to buy a waterfront home that you enjoy the beach more than a kid from Central Falls?

Pay "the toll to the troll" !! Its a disgrace. Coastal access was once free. It will be again some day. just happens that right now the money grubbers are in control. Given time , Right will win out!!

BTW , someone called my sarcastic reference to charging 10 million to limit access "childish". My advice is to try thinking like a child. A child would never limit access to the beach to other children. It takes the greed of adulthood to learn that trick.

Mr. Sandman · 07-01-2003, 12:42 PM

The solution is easy...

Go make a million or two and buy a waterfront home!

Don't make this a rich vs. poor man thing. Coastal access is a rich man's games, has been for a long time...just like yachting and owning a jet. The rich guy busted his ass too and just spent a 1mil+ on a home and does not want a bunch of beer drinking jerks in big SUV's driving in his front yard all night. I don't blame him one bit.

IMO, the state and fed need to be more relaxed on their properties (where there are no homes) and the land is truly public. The cape (and islands) should be more open. The bird thing has me peeved....Move the frigggin birds to nearby islands that have no people or vehicles!

There is nothing wrong with walking the beach anyway.... most of my fishing requires a long walk...Most of us could probably use the exercise anyway.

I disagree with beachwalker in that the purpose of license fees is to reduce the fishing pressure....it just limits the one timers from access...and I agree with this aspect of the fees. I don't think there have been the vast improvements in the beach (due to the fees collected) either....I have not seen it anyway.

This is a very difficult problem to resolve with strong opinions on all sides. I see (long term) the right to drive on the beach slowly disappering and will everntually be phased out altogether. Too many people (who also pay taxes) will have a louder voice and a moral(er) high ground to shout it from will win the day. Sad but true...Enjoy it while you still have it.

beachwalker · 07-01-2003, 01:09 PM

Bassaholic,

Beachwalker never said the "purpose" was to reduce beach pressure.

It is a "consequence"......

We saw it AFTER the fact. It happens to be a good consequence.
In a fishermans opinion.

Saltheart,

It seems that I upset you with the "childish" comment, it is your perogative to react anyway you choose.

At Town meeting here we get a lot of childlike responses to issues that are up for discussion and/or vote. It seems that debate is the best way to inform and learn. These responses are from the poorly informed or understood of the group. Eventually they see what they had the blinders on to. Right now fisherman, that were jumping up and down screaming injustice, are quietly smiling from the beach at the benefits of efforts at beach management and access.

Thanks for the advice. I tried it and the only conclusion that I could come to was that a child would not have enough experience or judgement to make decisions of this nature. The child would also hold grudges and continually question authority.

It seems there are a lot of grown up children out there.

We haven't seen greed with our beach access issue.

Where is the proof of the mainland greed ?

I am not saying it doesn't exist, but show me some FACTS. Not opinions..........

Saltheart · 07-01-2003, 03:53 PM

Everyone has the right to go out and earn the million to buy the yahct , etc. But if after buying the yahct you decide you can't enjoy the harbor cause someone has an 8 foot fishing boat moored next to your million dollar yahct , you are grredy if you move for legislation to charge outrageous fees for someone to be in the harbor at all. You are just trying to rob the guy who worked hard to buy his small boat of his right to be in the harbor.

Its the same thing when someone buys a million dollar home on a beach with access to SUV's and then decides he can't enjoy the beach if he has to share it with people driving the beach. You can try to sell the argument that the guy who spends the million has more right to the beach and some will buy it (the rich) , same as there are some (the big) who believe its OK for the biggest kid to bully the little kids .

I love the line "The child would also hold grudges and continually question authority.

It seems there are a lot of grown up children out there."

I say Thank God!! The day we stop questioning authority is the day we give up all our rights.

And then there's this "We haven't seen greed with our beach access issue.

Where is the proof of the mainland greed ?

I am not saying it doesn't exist, but show me some FACTS. Not opinions..........""

You must be kidding??? If doubling and tripling users fees isn't evidence of greed , I don't know what is.

Oh and by the way , don't assume anything is "upsetting" anybody. I'm quite enjoying myself!

A good healthy debate about access is very good news to me. If you read my opinions over the last six or sevn years , you'll know that I have always been far more alarmed about lose of access than I have been about overfishing. There will be fish to catch long after most of our access rights have been stripped away from us. I'm glad to see access issues get some air time. Thanks for holding up your end of the debate. Without at least two differing opinions , there wouldn't be any discussion. Indifference is what's going to lose our beach access rights , not debate obout it.

beachwalker · 07-01-2003, 06:07 PM

Quite right and I appreciate your civility.

But,

Ther isn't greed here because the fees have been raised. It costs a lot more than other places to employ and house people AND maintain the standards that the Town and the Trustees set.

I respect your years of experience but wish that you would see that the analogy of the child questioning authority has nothing to do with OUR questioning authority on this matter.

A child normally questions authority to TEST it, rarely to prove a point. They rarely UNDERSTAND the point. That was my point with you.

Seek to understand first. We should question rules and regulations when we feel they are improper or have the potential to be (prior to ratification). That is why someone should question things. NOT, specifically, to be a pain in the ass.

I am going fishing.

Give us some substantive feedback. Not gripes

Tata

Fishpart · 07-02-2003, 10:20 AM

I for one would love to buy a million dollar beach house and I work hard, unfortunately I may never earn enough to afford one.

Even if you do "buy" a beach (home on the water) it doesn't give you access to the beach that someone else bought. All I am asking for is a place to park my car and a right of way to the beach.

The problem is coastwide, in Florida there are beautiful beaches with town maintained rights of way, but there are no parking signs for miles in each direction because the mansion owners on either side of the right of way don't want their ocean views cluttered up with people.

Mr. Sandman · 07-02-2003, 10:36 AM

Salt..

The problem is not the "rich" and "greed" that is trying to hog the beach that is just a cop out IMO. Just because you were able to drive on the beach in the past does not grandfather your right to drive today or tomorrow no matter who's home big or small is on the beach.

We had slavery for a while in this country and we seem to get over that problem...(most of us anyway)

Why there will be no vehicles on the beaches in the future is simply that more people use the beaches nowadays for all sorts of reasons. In the "old days" waterfront and low laying property was considered cheap (that is why the rail road runs along the shore) and no one gave a damn what whent on at the beach.

People today are increasingly sensitive to beach erosion ect. Fewer and fewer beaches are driveable each year...its slipping away and there is nothing much we can do about it.

Bottom line is that there is more people who DO NOT want vehicles on the beach then DO. Its not the rich trying to price out the poor.

Hey I feel your pain. I spend my $ this season for two beach permits only to be "plovered" and now I can't use the beach anyway for the next several months...WTF? Why this really pisses me off is that just a few weeks ago they said there were no plovers and the beach would remain open all season..I buy my sticker and they close the frigging thing. Move the 4 goddamn birds to some other island.

Saltheart · 07-02-2003, 11:02 AM

They should refund your permit fee if they closed the beach. Its definitely not fair to take the money then shut it down.

I do think though that how many people want beach access and how many don't is not a valid argument. Right is right even if only one person stands against the whole country. Wrong is wrong even if everyone is wrong.

I think some sort of regulation is needed , just to keep people from hurting themselves and others. A token fee to insure people get inspected for safety equipment and get given a copy of safety guidelines is OK with me. In fact , I would be in favor of people having to pass a test to get the permit to insure awareness of environmental and safety issues. I'm just not in favor of outrageous fees to generate income for the general fund and to limit acccess to only those with big bucks.

Fishpart brings up an interesting point. Rights of Way. In RI , they don't mark public rights of way. they will spend thousands n no parking signs all up and down a street but not even twenty bucks for a single Public Right of Way sign. We have a special police force to ensure that peole don't trample the dunes or take fish over the limit. We have special patrol cars from some of the towns to ensure you don't access those beaches without a permit. We do not have a single State employee who will list and publish the locations of Public Right of way information to be sure people know where they can legally accesss the shoreline.

My last point is that I'm not worried about my beach and fishing access. I know so many places , I'll never run out in my lifetime. Its the ability of future generations to access the ocean that we need to fight for.

Mr. Sandman · 07-02-2003, 01:12 PM

"I would be in favor of people having to pass a test to get the permit to insure awareness of environmental and safety issues"

I second that!! But I don't think that will help open more shoreline.

tlapinski · 07-03-2003, 05:43 AM

if you are a resident of another state, but are a landowner in RI, would you be charged the out of state fee? freakin' RI! just keep s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g us dry. eventually people will smarten up and fish elsewhere....... hmmmm maybe that won't be so bad. i'll have it all to my self....... excellent!

beachwalker · 07-03-2003, 05:57 AM

In this town it is where you have registared your vehicle.

Fair enough, right ?

I was born and raised in Southern Connecticut. If I went back to that area and decided I wanted a pass for beach or parking and they had an in state/ out of state fee, then I would be an out of stater because I now call Massachusetts my home. Even though I was BORN in the town I seek the pass in.

Oh, the injustice of it all !

These rules do not make any sense. I am SURE (due to my extensive knowledge of things) that there must be some greedy, behind the back, fisherman hating politician behind it all. He owns one of the big rich mans houses that is screwing up my access. He must be a bad person. I HATE him !!!!!!!!!

But, then again, I am such an extremely knowledgeable fisherman (who called this whole beach access thing years ago) and I KNOW WHERE ALL THE GREAT SPOTS ARE that I really DON"T need this beach access thing anyway.

I have got it all figured out. You see, I am a master of all I survey..........

Ah, the comfort of being an expert.

Bill L · 07-03-2003, 07:23 AM

Beachwalker, you should RUN for OFFICE, I think you would make a perfect candidate. Then you will really have a platform to remove the blinders from all us childish imbeciles so that we may see the light.

beachwalker · 07-03-2003, 07:28 AM

Why thank you. But I believe that I am a bit to honest to be a greedy, behind the back, hidden agenda politician that I would need to be.

The truth often causes offense. Here is some proof.