Weekapaug Beach Closures - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

JohnR · 01-30-2015, 08:13 AM

I got this in an email yesterday from Jim Mckeough

Quote:

If you have not heard by now, the property owners on the beach side of Atlantic Avenue between the Westerly Town Beach and the Weekapaug Breech Way are in the process of closing down that stretch of beach completely and I mean completely. No walking on the beach even below the high water mark and know fishing. The whole beach will become private.

Therefore Weekapaug Surfcasters is having a meeting at 1:00 Sunday, Feb 1st. at the Missquamicutt Fire House on Crandall Avenue across the street from St. Clare's Church to discuss this matter.

There will be representatives from the people who live on the north side of Atlantic Avenue between the town beach and the breech way with there lawyers to discuss there plans concerning there law suit

If the people on the ocean side of Atlantic Avenue get there way, this might set a trend and the beach by the pink house could eventually be closed.

Anyone who has any impute that might help is asked to attend this meeting. Please forward this to your club president.

There is parking across the street in St. Clare’s Church parking lot.

Note: This is a different law suit than the one the Attorney General did.

Jim Mckeough

ivanputski · 01-30-2015, 08:49 AM

Holy smokes that is ridiculous
... Would be terrible, and if allowed to happen serve as a terrible precendent.
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RIROCKHOUND · 01-30-2015, 10:54 AM

Legally, (constitutionally) they cannot bar you from passing below MHW (the high tide line), as long as you accessed the shoreline from a public right of way. They can do what they wish above MHW.

DZ · 01-30-2015, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Legally, (constitutionally) they cannot bar you from passing below MHW (the high tide line), as long as you accessed the shoreline from a public right of way. They can do what they wish above MHW.

Bryan - as a expert in the field how quick do you think the MHW level is changing? Seems like it changes after every major storm.

piemma · 01-30-2015, 11:51 AM

Bryan is correct and DZ, what difference does it make. As long as you access from a ROW and stay below MHW they can pound sand and that's all.
I have a pretty good rapport with Janet Coit Dir DEM and Ill send her an email on the topic. My bet is this issue will not get passed.

DZ · 01-30-2015, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piemma

Bryan is correct and DZ, what difference does it make. As long as you access from a ROW and stay below MHW they can pound sand and that's all.
I have a pretty good rapport with Janet Coit Dir DEM and Ill send her an email on the topic. My bet is this issue will not get passed.

I don't think it makes any difference Paul - other than where the legal MHW line is now located. Just looking for an experts view because Bryan is very involved in sea level rise studies. This issue will become more and more common.

piemma · 01-30-2015, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ

I don't think it makes any difference Paul - other than where the legal MHW line is now located. Just looking for an experts view because Bryan is very involved in sea level rise studies. This issue will become more and more common.

Understood DZ. I just sent Director Coit an email detailing the message John received.

BTW, I have been re-reading your book. What a GREAT piece of work. Just re-read the snowstorm blitz chapter. Makes me wish for the old Falls on the Block.

DZ · 01-30-2015, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piemma

BTW, I have been re-reading your book. What a GREAT piece of work. Just re-read the snowstorm blitz chapter. Makes me wish for the old Falls on the Block.

Thanks for the kind words - You'll be setting the hook in your dreams tonight.

Nebe · 01-30-2015, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ

Thanks for the kind words - You'll be setting the hook in your dreams tonight.

I set the hook one night in my sleep and punched my sons mom in the face... Not a good moment.
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RIROCKHOUND · 01-30-2015, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ

Bryan - as a expert in the field how quick do you think the MHW level is changing? Seems like it changes after every major storm.

Daily. Hourly. Weekly. Depends on storm/wave activity. Any change in morphology of the beach changes the relationship between a vertical datum (MHW) and a horizontal position on the beach. Because it isn't practical to hire a surveyor daily to pin MHW, the courts adopted the last high tide swash (LHTS) as the proxy.

Linesider82 · 01-30-2015, 03:12 PM

Mean High Water is an elevation determined over a 19 year time frame, and it is the the demarcation line between upland (private land) and tideland (state owned public land). It is this elevation that is reproducible and therefore upholds in court because it can be reproduced on the ground. While there may be physical evidence in some instances such as rocks having darkened areas, generally speaking sandy beaches and especially those that are in flat areas the evidence of tidal influences are more difficult to determine, which is why the Mean High Water "line" (elevation) is used.

As a generalization, when there has been a sudden and perceptible change in the shoreline (storms), as by avulsion or reliction, the property boundary does not change, but remains as before (i.e. the mean high water mark, if in Rhode Island). When there has been a slow or gradual change in the shoreline, as by accretion or erosion, as a generalization the property line does change, with the landowner either losing property (erosion) or acquiring more property (accretion).

I do not know the details of this case, but the case may be concerned with public right of way. Without the right of way (public right of access over private or state land), we would have legal no access to the area below the MHW line (where we fish).

MakoMike · 01-30-2015, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linesider82

I do not know the details of this case, but the case may be concerned with public right of way. Without the right of way (public right of access over private or state land), we would have legal no access to the area below the MHW line (where we fish).

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR

the property owners on the beach side of Atlantic Avenue between the Westerly Town Beach and the Weekapaug Breech Way

Sounds like there is a public ROW on each side.

Linesider82 · 01-30-2015, 03:52 PM

There are 8 public Right of ways east of misquamicut and 2 to the west as designated by CRMC

Dick Durand · 01-30-2015, 04:13 PM

Has Connecticut annexed the beach?

Nebe · 01-30-2015, 04:15 PM

Someone will personally remove any fencing that goes below MHW. Some A-holes did this in newport somewhere and the cordless sawzawl was out pronto and the fence was never rebuilt.
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Linesider82 · 01-30-2015, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^& Durand

Has Connecticut annexed the beach?

LOL no, but I'm a Surveyor and find water rights and public access interesting.

tattoobob · 01-30-2015, 05:51 PM

Elitist entitlement

WoodyCT · 01-30-2015, 09:20 PM

I believe the folks on the shore side of Atlantic Avenue are trying to close the ROWs so the folks on the north side of Atlantic Avenue can't access the beach. Don't quote me on this however.

There is a meeting Sunday at 1:00 at the firehouse on Crandall Avenue in Misquamicut. The Weekapaug Surfcasters will be there as will residents from the north side of Atlantic Avenue.

If I go I can report back.

Sundowner · 01-31-2015, 08:06 AM

It's a good thing it was a long walk back to the car the other day or else someone was going to get the MHW info stapled to his forehead. Friggan yell at me through a bull horn...

RIROCKHOUND · 01-31-2015, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundowner

It's a good thing it was a long walk back to the car the other day or else someone was going to get the MHW info stapled to his forehead. Friggan yell at me through a bull horn...

If someone is restricting a ROW or access below MHW, let Kevin Cute @ CRMC know.

Sundowner · 01-31-2015, 09:11 AM

I will do just that. Thank you.

Jim Mckeough · 02-04-2015, 11:03 AM

At the Feb. 1st. Weekapaug meeting it was brought up that
the Judge stated that that the right of ways only go to the top of the dune, not to the waters edge. Therefore the beach below the dune is private and you can not walk to the water.

bobber · 02-04-2015, 12:23 PM

so thats friggin awesome..... theres a ROW that allows access to the beach, but then you can't actually touch the beach

iamskippy · 02-04-2015, 12:28 PM

Looks like i will need to work on my.distance casting, would.love to drag a yellow eyed demon across the beach while they are sum bathing..
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Thumper · 02-04-2015, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Mckeough

At the Feb. 1st. Weekapaug meeting it was brought up that
the Judge stated that that the right of ways only go to the top of the dune, not to the waters edge. Therefore the beach below the dune is private and you can not walk to the water.

Jim, who is this "judge" that made said statement? I am going to guess it wasn't a "qualified" individual from the local municipal court.

Linesider82 · 02-04-2015, 01:48 PM

http://www.providencejournal.com/new...icut-shore.ece

http://www.providencejournal.com/bre...trial-poll.ece

Swimmer · 02-04-2015, 02:25 PM

Any judgement a group wants can be had for the right price. Maybe not a direct bribe, but at least donations to particular re-election funds.
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wader-dad · 02-04-2015, 04:23 PM

seems like the dispute was about the beach above the high water mark- not below it. So that is no different than in CT where you have to get to the beach somehow with access and fish below the high water mark or whatever its called

MakoMike · 02-04-2015, 05:05 PM

From the article in the Projo:
"The case didn’t focus on rights-of-way that run between the seaside houses from Atlantic Avenue to the ocean. Instead, it focused on whether the public, once it has gained access to the beach, can freely roam on it above the mean high tide line. That’s the boundary often used to define where private property begins and where some of the Misquamicut property owners had erected fences and signs."

Linesider82 · 02-04-2015, 05:26 PM

The issue here from what I can surmise is that the map from 1909 shows all the properties both ocean side and pond side as one single subdivision. It shows equal sized lots on both sides of the road, and the property lines of the ocean side lots essentially end at the dune base and are not drawn to the ocean. Instead it says beach. Subdivided properties are considered created at the same instant, meaning there is no legal superiority to the lots beach side. Also on the map are the right of ways, likely deeded to the pond side residents to access the "beach" portion of the map. Because what else would they be used for? The ROWs are for the pond side residents and the ocean side residents to use the beach in front likely as a shared area, not public, but deeded to that group of homes. The pond side group of homeowners is getting a raw deal from this case.

In regards to fishing, it sounds like the ROWs were never public. But the right to fish below MHW continues.
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