Sea Herring - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

JohnR · 12-02-2003, 11:34 AM

Wondering if anyone knows the answer to this: Here is a question about the Russian ships off Jamestown (not coming this year?) and the sea herring they process. We've heard in the past that the Russian ships collect the sea herring seined by local commercial boats and that this sea herring is not the bluebacks and alewives that we all focus on with regards to bass fishing in the spring. DEM has stated a few times and it has been in some of the print mags that these are different herring. However, aren't these Sea Herring the same baitfish that the bass follow on the southward migration? The same baits that the gannets chase & dive on every fall? Anyone know how much of the local (migratory?) sea herring biomass is seined and then processed? Anyone know if it is having an impact? Not necessarily against the whole biomass but maybe the body inshore of say 12 miles and in that the bass and gator blues feed on during the migration (seeing that adult menhaden is no longer on the menu).

This is something thats been bugging me a little lately and I'm wondering if it is a problem or not.

Thanks,

John

likwid · 12-02-2003, 11:41 AM

I'm pretty sure DEM/DMF have a very tight rein on how much they take.

If you watch you'll see DEM boats hanging out around the processing ships the whole time they're around.

I e-mailed the old man for a better answer so we'll see.

Basstime · 12-02-2003, 11:44 AM

Good question? Where are these herring being caught? Maybe the stomach contents of some bass & blues might tell us if their feeding on this species of herring?

RIROCKHOUND · 12-02-2003, 11:48 AM

John, at one point I knew the numbers, it was somthing like 3% of the sustainable population of herring was caught commercially, it was drops in the bucket I believe... I think herring are safe for now.. also, local boats get work from the Russkies, so I have no problem with it.. then again I dont like on the water in Jimmytown either....

JohnR · 12-02-2003, 12:20 PM

I don't live in "Jimmytown"

(but I want to) but I'm just curious if they are banging out the same schools of bait that out bass & blues would ordinarily feed on. 3% is a tiny number and hardly a dent (and I'm not opposed to the jobs either) but I wonder is the local dent is high versus the overall, knowhatimean?

leptar · 12-02-2003, 12:44 PM

From what i understood the Russian ships don't actually catch anything they just come in to buy thru a middle man where the commercial person has to sell thru.

RIROCKHOUND · 12-02-2003, 12:48 PM

I hear ya barking big dog

It's a good question... My answer is that I have been out toggin' off newport a bunch this fall (not as much as I'd like :-( ) and we have marked huge pods of bait, seen the gannets, dolphins etc... I think there are lots of herring around, maybe the bass just jeave a bit earlier... if you remeber BFT's were busting up herring nearshore last fall this time, lobstermen saw them within a few miles of newport, and I know they arent feeding on choggies... but I'm a dirt and rocks guy, not a biologist, so what do I know

'hound

JohnR · 12-02-2003, 01:06 PM

Gotcha

Scotch Bonnet · 12-02-2003, 01:39 PM

John, a friend of mine is a captain of a boat out of PJ that targets these herring. Ive been on the boat when its full and seen the catch. Some bluebacks mixed in but mainly sea herring. These fish move in around December and stay tight around Block Island for the winter. You'll see 4-5 boats working around the Island all winter. The fish move north around april and they follow them with the boat. They keep the boat in Gloucester, Mass for the late spring, summer, early fall. They fish year round for these fish. There isn't a huge market for these herring. About 50% goes overseas and 50% is used for lobster bait.

fishweewee · 12-02-2003, 01:42 PM

I like mine pickled, in heavy cream.

slapshot · 12-02-2003, 03:38 PM

I too would like to know the status of the herring stocks. Aren't these the same baitfish that the tuna and other pelagic fish feed on?

In CT, we are not allowed to take bluebacks and alewives due to a crashing population. It seems to me that if the population of the those two species is truely in danger, and there are some mixed in with the sea herring, then this would be a concern to fisheries managers?

I was told by a Newport area resident that very few local fishermen were employed because of this boat. That the boat makes a tremendous amount of noise and lights up the sky at night. I was also told that before the boat came, less than 1/3 of the quota was being taken. The boat is here to fill the unused portion of the quota. Is any of this true?

flatts1 · 12-02-2003, 04:15 PM

John,

I think the herring that you are referring to are Atlantic herring (Clupea harengus) as opposed to the River herring (Alosa pseudoharengus) that most of us like to take in the spring.

Indeed, these are the herring that are so important to our groundfish fisheries and I presume also to striped bass.

Actually the atlantic herring is managed by NEFMC and not state authorities. There is real concern that the Atlantic herring are being overfished (or soon will be). For example, the number of mid-water pair trawl vessels/permits and harvesting capacity have increased dramatically from 2 in 1999 to 12 vessels in 2000.

Not to mention that there is serious concern that many other midwater species are being caught as bycatch during these trawls for this herring (cod, haddock, seals, turtles, and yes stripers)

This is exactly what we were referring to at the last MSBA meeting. I will be writing a letter on behalf of the club if I ever get the time to do it

Later,
Mike Flaherty
MSBA Political Committee Chairman

blackeye · 12-02-2003, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by leptar
From what i understood the Russian ships don't actually catch anything they just come in to buy thru a middle man where the commercial person has to sell thru.

it is called joint venturing. My dad was a fisherman in pt judith for 15 years, and the boat he was on (the Miss Judith) joint ventured with the Italians when the squid were in. Easiest work for those boys, tow up a netfull and pass it off to the processing boat, hook up the spare net, and repeat. Easy money.

Fly Rod · 12-02-2003, 08:40 PM

flatts 1-- hit the nail on the head. He covers just about all of it.

Sea herring; bluebacks; herring; atlantic herring; pickled herring; mustard & herring means the same. National Marine fishieres governs the fishery. The herring boats are not governed. They fish dicriminately with there mid water trawls with there by catch being COD; Haddock; Tuna; STRIPERS and what ever else that can not escape the net.They are suppose to have National Marine observers on board. Most of the time they don't.

Marine Fishieres claims that there are two seperate bio-masses of herring, inshore and offshore. Inshore is from 3miles to where ever. Offshore is Georges Bank. The only regulation that I know of is when the inshore herring are spawning they must go to the Georges Bank area

They depleted Europe and they will deplete our resouce if given the chance.
Anybody hear of the "COD WARS" ? It started with the depletion of herring in Holland, water front towns as big as New Bedford and Gloucester became ghost towns. They headed towards Iceland to fish for cod. they were met by Icelands Navey, one old scow and a bunch of armed fishing boats. The Holland fleet turned and ran. Iceland was first with the 200 mile limit.

I signed a petition in a locale tackle shop to keep the herring fleet 75 miles off shore and to have government observers on every trip. Has anyone seen that petition.

Scotch Bonnet · 12-02-2003, 09:39 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fly Rod
[B]flatts 1-- hit the nail on the head. He covers just about all of it.

The herring boats are not governed. They fish dicriminately with there mid water trawls with there by catch being COD; Haddock; Tuna; STRIPERS and what ever else that can not escape the net.They are suppose to have National Marine observers on board. Most of the time they don't.

.................................................. .................................................

You sure about that? Each commercial boat is equipped with a black box that tracks the boats EVERY move. I don't know of any other industry that is governed so closely.

Fly Rod · 12-03-2003, 06:47 AM

You are right about the black box tracking the movemrnt of the vessel.

BUT! BUT! ! ! The box does not track the speciecs of fish taken on board NOR does it track the amount of the by-catch.

They are allowed a % of by- catch which thy are allowed and in most cases exceed.

We discuss, just about every morning, at the coffee shop, the rules & regs of the commercial fishery and lobstering.

do you know that Whale Watch boats have observers on them once in a while also ??? And when they are on board a vessel, whale watch captains have a way to verbally notify others so that everybody plays by the rules for that day.

Also I ment to say indiscriminately.

Fly Rod · 12-03-2003, 08:47 AM

just came back from coffee ! !

I brought up the subject of the black box in the herring fishery.

If you do not have a box you are allowed approx. 15,000 lbs.

If you have a box there is no limit.

The two vessels out of Gloucester do have black boxes. I've seen them come in with 300,000lbs per trip and I've seen them with as little as 60,000lbs. per trip and they come in about every third day. How long do you think the fishery will last ?????

Scotch Bonnet: two people that I know of that are rigging a boat to go herring say that you don't need a black box till you get caught !!!! Quote that !!!!

JohnR · 12-03-2003, 09:14 AM

OK - just merged threads

No - I have not seen that petition but would be interested in reading it. I have heard of the Cod Wars - is there any reading on that?