Why do we allow this to happen? - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Duke41 · 05-24-2005, 10:56 PM

Just got this off another site. We must do something about his crap!!

Well, the good news is that there were some pogies in the bay. The bad news is that the Pogie boat had their first day of the season yesterday and took 150,000 pounds out of Mt Hope Bay. That equals roughly 80,000 to 120,000 pogies gone in one day. Think about that number. Some biologists feel that a major contributing factor to the decline of the herring runs is increased predation. Bass are eating more herring because there are fewer other natural forage species available to them. Pogies are probably the #1 forage food for bass. They much prefer them to herring, but when there are no pogies they eat more herring. And lobsters. And crabs. And eels.

Think about this: NJ allows no purse seine boats within 1 mile of their shoreline (many no closer than 3 miles based on the size of the boat). There are no seine boats allowed in LI sound. None allowed in CT state waters. RI allows the pogie boat ANYWHERE THEY WANT TO GO, even up into the Providence River. Make sense? NJ, LI sound and CT enjoy big schools of pogies all season long. RI hardly sees any. For some reason nobody in this state is willing or able to fight for restrictions on the pogie boat. I don't know what he has on everyone, but it must be good. We can take 12 herring per day on select days. Arc Bait can take as many pogies as they want any day they want. When the airplane they use to spot the schools say there are none left, they move to NJ and spend the rest of the season there.

It seems simple to me: you can't take every darn fish every year and not expect the fishery to decline. I just wish everyone who gets so mad about herring taken on the way up and over-limit fishing (rightfully so) doesn't spend a little of that energy on getting restrictions on the pogie fishery as well. Ok, I'm off my stump now. Sorry to rant.

Bart Wagner

Clammer · 05-24-2005, 11:04 PM

And its not even a RI based boat or business //

BasicPatrick · 05-24-2005, 11:20 PM

Where is RISAA on this subject???

basswipe · 05-25-2005, 05:29 AM

Big money(business) will usually win out everytime.This IS RI we're talking about here.

McSpooled · 05-25-2005, 06:07 AM

Interesting editorial from Gene Bourque in OTW this month re: scientific data supporting the health of the Menhaden stock and anecdotal info. from anglers.

> Reference to an 1873 editorial in which the NY Fisheries Commissioners "expressed the fear that the unlimited taking of fish of all kinds, in all seasons...would result in a ruinous scarcity...."

Guess who disagreed (commercial fisherman), who continued to pull out drum fish at a record pace. Anyone come across a drum fish lately?????

Black Drum

Van · 05-25-2005, 07:51 AM

I live in Mass....

Whats a POGIE ??????????

cheferson · 05-25-2005, 07:54 AM

Menhaden, bunker

likwid · 05-25-2005, 07:58 AM

You mean there's some left?

Its been close to 10-15 years since I've seen a big school of menhaden in Buzzards Bay.

Van · 05-25-2005, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheferson

Menhaden, bunker

I was kidding, I have not seen them in my waters in 10 years.

Saltheart · 05-25-2005, 08:14 AM

I can't ebleive they stiill allow them in the Bay. I thought RI made some restrictions a couple of years ago like they can't go above prudence Island or something???

Offshore24 · 05-25-2005, 09:42 AM

We used to have pogies in Maine. I remember late 80's we had massive killoff in the rivers due to them using up all the O2 and killing themselves. Then there were the Russians with their processing ship hanging off Harpswell. They'd hang out and send net boats out for weeks. Catching them all. It has never been the same. They are all gone now.. And the blues went with them. I used to catch blues that were 3-ft long. Now the blues should be looking over their shoulder for the mackerel to come and bite em in the butt.

BrianS · 05-25-2005, 10:00 AM

I remeber 10-11 years ago fishing in the Taunton River with pogies from shore to shore... and this was WAY up the river in sight of the TMLP plant..

Neat to see seals that far up the river.

About that same time, my uncle was about to put his boat out of plymouth and inside the jetty there were hordes of pogies being chased by hordes of big blues... the water was red in alot of spots... lasted for quite awhile...

sad we may never see that type of stuff again... or at least a long while.

redlite · 05-25-2005, 10:01 AM

I got an adult pogie tangled in my line while eelin in the canal the other night. I live lined it for 3 hours and didn't even get a touch.
I almost didn't even know what it was when I pulled in my line. Been so long since I've actually seen one alive. A truly lucky catch. Too bad mamma bass was around to eat it.

fishweewee · 05-25-2005, 10:14 AM

Ah. Kwit yer bitching and go hire some bored Navy SEALs to attach some limpet mines on the hulls of those bunker boats and blow them to smithereens.

Would make a hell of a chum slick.

jettyjockey18 · 05-25-2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjs

About that same time, my uncle was about to put his boat out of plymouth and inside the jetty there were hordes of pogies being chased by hordes of big blues... the water was red in alot of spots... lasted for quite awhile...

sad we may never see that type of stuff again... or at least a long while.

i haven't snagged a pogy off the plymouth jetty since sept '95...and it aint from lack of effort...used to know when commercial striper season started becaused there'd be 20 boats all with gill nets stretched across the channel...

DZ · 05-25-2005, 11:43 AM

IMO there are adult pogies "Somewhere"- just not here. How can we explain the massive amount of baby menhaden we have seen the past few years? - more than I've ever witnessed in my 35 years of chasing stripers. There may in fact be a decline in large menhaden - but these babies have been spawned by a significant population of adults.
A bigger question may be "Why are adult poigies not coming to northern waters in any numbers?
Could it be water quality, temp, food source? Or is it just cyclical?

JohnR · 05-25-2005, 12:13 PM

One of the RI Marine Scientists indicated that the large menhaden might be offshore and prefer not to move inshore. But we get the nuts every year strong. Would it be that these couple hundred thousand pogies that come into the bay every spring leave their eggs before getting sucked up by Arc bait? Or would a couple years of a commercial no take policy inside the bay be enough to develop a large returning menahden population. Who knows, maybe if they were left alone here for a few years a local reocurring population would be resident here.

I seem to recall a deal made a few years back that Arc Bait had made an agreement, perhaps with some people from RISAA that they would not go into certain proptions of the bay to net menhaden. But then I heard that the agreed on areas not to net were not big netting areas anyway. I'm very vague and that is a combination of both hearsay and bad memory, so take it for what it is worth

MakoMike · 05-25-2005, 12:36 PM

Just a question from a relatively newbie to the area. Who does Arc Bait sell them to? Us? Recreational fishermen, or are they catching lobster bait?
If its the former, maybe we only have ourselves to blame?

Saltheart · 05-25-2005, 12:42 PM

I beleive they use them to make a fertilizer , a protein suppliment and oils.

Raven · 05-25-2005, 01:16 PM

being able to go out in buzzards bay...striper fishing....and the schools of pogies were so thick - my pram would get caught up in their migratory drift...or current from them swimming...and you could cast a bare hook 200 feet in any direction on the compass and snag a pogie every time. Mostly to see just ...what in fact they were ..as i trolled for stripers and blues.

fishdog13 · 05-25-2005, 03:00 PM

I live in Mass....

Whats a POGIE ??????????

parker23 · 05-25-2005, 04:21 PM

I had a neighbor several years ago that worked for Arc bait. He had a freezer full of stripers from the nets. Daily catches of thousands of fish that are crushed in the nets and doa. They sell them illegally as well as dump the excess. As soon as they clean out the bay, they run the boats down the coast and kill fish in other states. Most of their catch is sold to lobster fishermen. My father went to school w/the owner and I went to school with the son. Many generations of dirtbags run that business.

These guys are scum. I have been run off schools by their boats many times over the years.

I had a few faulty flares fire out of the gun at their boat, while the gun was still in the box stored in the locker. I never figured out how the gun fired on its own. Maybe it was the ghost of the dead fish taking revenge on these scumbags.

Clammer · 05-25-2005, 04:34 PM

Mike & John == that [was] a gentlemen,s agreement //

Arc bait has contracts with Lobster boats & bait shops //

ThrowingTimber · 05-25-2005, 05:32 PM

MakoMike · 05-26-2005, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clammer

Arc bait has contracts with Lobster boats & bait shops //

Well doesn't that make us part of the problem?

kayaman · 05-26-2005, 07:09 AM

I used to work for an unnamed bait supplier that bought pogies from arc. let me repeat...USED TO.... that was about 15 years ago... at that time they had done a number on the schools in the fall river area and were working on cleaning out quincy bay... which they did a pretty good job of. I would meet the boats on their return and load my truck full of barrells... as the bait was coming up the conveyer belt they would grab stripers and blues that got caught up in the nets.... they way they strip the bays clean I would have thought that they would have put themselves out of bussiness already.

kayaman · 05-26-2005, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Just a question from a relatively newbie to the area. Who does Arc Bait sell them to? Us? Recreational fishermen, or are they catching lobster bait?
If its the former, maybe we only have ourselves to blame?

the majority of their stuff is used for lobster bait... a lesser amount to the bait shops.....