Hearing on Race Point Beach Closures

[Sweetwater]

There was a hearing about Race Point Beach closure at the Provincelands Visitors center. Did anyone go? (I couldn't make it). If so, what can you tell us about the proceedings?

[jkswimmer]

They have a ACE in the hole.

[Flaptail]

I was there. It was a dog and pony show. They are mandated by law to have a public forum and period of comment on anything they do. They also have so many hurdles to leap, in the form of varying government agencies, wildlife protection groups and user groups that to do as little as possible while giving the perception that they are actually doing a lot is the real status quo.

The Park Services system of rotating park superintendents and head rangers around the country may work for them but it really doesn't work for us. Having people come in from forest parks and urban parks to run the seashore and thier lack of experience with the complexity of the beach environment hurts the way things are done and certainly thier learning curve time never catches up to the problems at hand and how to really deal effectively with them.

We will get somekind of alternative access but really that accesswill be just a token and the only thing that it will accomplish is that the NPS will be able to say, "look we kept the beach open" ( yeah two tenths of a mile at high head, big deal)

Meanwhile the gay community has done a boffo job of retaining Wood End as thier private beach and south of Longnook, where Plovers don't find any suitable habitat for breeding remains close for no real reason.

Lastly the Advisory group as a whole is dysfunctional with some members ( like P-Towns rep) not showing at all and is so diverse as to be flacid)

[tattoobob]

100 SCV's in 2/10ths of a mile is a joke, they opened 1/10th on S. Race last summer and if you weren't there before sunup all the beach goers had all the spots. what a nightmare. Bottom line is we will never win or have the rights we once had.

[DZ]

Has any of the surfcasting community ever thought of approaching Cape beach access in a different way? I've had the pleasure of fishing up that way for a few years now - I always wondered if it would be advantageous to ask for more satellite parking areas to access the beach instead of asking for beach driving access. I might be striking a nerve here - but if you think you're losing what you have - might be time to re-think the access issue. What do you think Steve?

DZ

[JHABS]

There is enough Beach for everyone, But it seems every year to be less, You pay to drive the beach but Its the Birds or whatever . Soon they will say the Seals. More parking area good idea but more Beach to drive on even better. It's the Beginning of the End , THEY Don't want us on the Beach.......................

[Karl F]

Originally Posted by JHABS

There is enough Beach for everyone, But it seems every year to be less, You pay to drive the beach but Its the Birds or whatever . Soon they will say the Seals. More parking area good idea but more Beach to drive on even better. It's the Beginning of the End , THEY Don't want us on the Beach.......................

Bingo.. it ain't about parking, it ain't really about birds, or anything else, but John's last comment, tells it like it really is.

And Flap is right about the NS rotation of their management.. bring in somebody from Central Park in NYC, or someplace in Utah.. WTF they know about the seashore? And what does it matter? They are rotated out by the time they just start to figger it out.

I'm not advocating giving up, bombard them with email, snail mail, phone calls etc., but just know, the true agenda, and that you are probably talking to walls. Could not get out of work yesterday, or I would have been there.

The mbba just dropped some big coin on some top notch enviro/access lawyers, to get into the mix, I hope this goes some place in the right direction.

[Backbeach Jake]

I couldn't make it either. Funny how in the 60's the Seashore was to preserve the beaches for our enjoyment for all time. Beach access was free. We could drive to Long Point and Wood end without running over "cowboys". Cheese I'm pissed!

[jkswimmer]

I was at the meeting and what I got from it was that they try to use any excuse not to allow anyone into a area. Some of the things said were, we have to do an impact study, the hill is to high for trucks to climb, people will have to drive across a wetted area that is recovering,we have a management plan and we have to protect the birds. Someone did bring up the satelite parking.

[fishonnelsons]

Good attendance for winter, about 150, MBBA, regular folks but also Sierra Club and birders, but most for more access.

Most of the meat of the meeting was on why they could not do someting, versus why they could.

Why nots:

Herring Cove to Wood End was due to a 2005 washthrough that wasn't healed yet, as well as high "beachgoer" traffic. BS on the washthrough as each winter heals everything, as pointed out by someone. I brought up the fact that ORV traffic out there could actually help the Seashore in policing the activities of those out there in the hills (don't know th epolitically correct way of saying it!!!) but they don't want to touch that one. My feeling is great digital shots to newspapers, Congressman, etc of that activity would sure put alot of pressure on them to do something.

Herring Cove toward Race Pt light - possibility, not alot of plover activity but they are adverse to that, I think, because it would reduce available parking $$$$ in that lot - $15/car/day. But that is still on the table for future.

Opening up old access roads off of the telephone pole route - deemed not ecologically right, too much damage to vegetation and habitat for the minimal additional access it would create. Thats BS because they don't know how much access it would create until the birds actualy plant themselves down, if they congregate in one area, then maybe another access route would be good.

Best for last - use old Exit 8/Dune Shack Rd - some critical "wetlands"there (then why do they let Art's Dune Tour use it????), they don't want to upset the Dune Shack residents ( they have fu$%#@ed them enough already, but 2000 seasonal permits versus less than 100 residents??), and as a Ranger "slipped" and said "their ace in the hole was" the route was very hard and dangerous, operationally unsafe", we said what about the other access routes - Race Pt South, Coast Guard etc - they were just as hard and people could access them.

Bottom Line - "when less then 1/2 mile of total beach was open to ORV", they want to get approval to exercise any one of the following three options, just one, not 2, or all 3:
1. open High Head South to Head of the Meadow prior to July 1
2. open High Head north to Exit 8 prior to July 21
3.open Coast Guard beach in Truro for day time use. (needs Truro ok)

Obviously, any of those options could be eliminated if birds are present. Our put was if any of the beach is closed, open up those and other areas, maintain the status quo - if you close a 1/4 mile, open up another 1/4 mile, at least tempoary.

The ORV sub-committee who chaired the meeting are meeting Monday to finalize recommendations to Cape Cod Seashore Advisory Commission, meeting next Friday at Wellfleet Headquarters. Flap is right, sub-committee seems to be in dis-array - Ptown member never goes to meetings, although I am not sure they ever have meetings, and I will follow that one up with the Ptown selectmen.

We shall see, it is pretty fricking frustrating. On the one hand I want to say they are at least looking at some options but on the other hand they are truly rejecting good alternatives - Wood End, more accss off the pole Road, Exit 8 for bulls%$#& reasons, which leads you to believe they don't give a $^^%^$#.

[Slipknot]

sounds depressing

it's like it's a trial or something

[piemma]

You know, and I am not advocating this, but wouldn't be funny if everyone just drove on the beach?
What would the rangers do, call out the National Guard because a bunch of fishermen were fishing?

I know it won't work but the reasons you guys posted are the reasons some of us old guard don't fish the Cape anymore. Just to many beach goers, seals, closures and rules and regs and not enough fish. It's a damn shame because we are the ones who kept the beach going for so many years. Our permit money funded the whole thing. Now the "bird" people feel like they are entitled to the whole shoreline and we are the "bad guys". Screw 'um. There's better fishing in RI now anyway. So you walk and jump rocks.

[BigFish]

I think I am pretty much done paying to "NOT" go out on the Race fishing! I understand when Flaptail says we need to continue on paying for the permits and making our presence felt.....but the fishing down there is not worth the price of admission nevermind the plovers and the seals and the mung!!! I do think the seals are the reason the fishing is suffering but it is compounded by the other issues I mention and its just not worth the trip there anymore! I got ocean 20 minutes from my house and the fishing is a boatload better than at Race Point! I got out there 2 times this season for $150.00 and not that it was my fault....the dang birds had it closed until the week before Labor Day and when I did try to hoof it out there say from HOM.....there were so many seals it was ridiculous!!! I usually have better fishing on the backside beaches anyway so there is where I will go!

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by BigFish

I think I am pretty much done paying to "NOT" go out on the Race fishing! I understand when Flaptail says we need to continue on paying for the permits and making our presence felt.....but the fishing down there is not worth the price of admission nevermind the plovers and the seals and the mung!!! I do think the seals are the reason the fishing is suffering but it is compounded by the other issues I mention and its just not worth the trip there anymore! I got ocean 20 minutes from my house and the fishing is a boatload better than at Race Point! I got out there 2 times this season for $150.00 and not that it was my fault....the dang birds had it closed until the week before Labor Day and when I did try to hoof it out there say from HOM.....there were so many seals it was ridiculous!!! I usually have better fishing on the backside beaches anyway so there is where I will go!

This is exactly what the NPS and conserv groups are hoping will happen. That being said and the season being over I can now share some of the intel I was privy to on the bass and their not coming to the beach this year. Everyone bemoaned the lack of bait on the beach this year and last. True enough there wa no bait on the Race point beaches and south. Also true was the number of seals on the beach adding to the woes of fishermen when a small number of bass did show. What 99% of the beach fishermen were not privy to was that from Long Point to Wood End and out around the Race south to Longnook a phenomena took place that I have seen at Monomoy in years past. The sand eels, for reasons only known to God and themselves form up on the surface in a tightly packed group forming a living ribbon that often stretches for miles. Picture a tube if you will not much more than several yards wide for hundreds of yards to a mile or more long. All season from Mid May to October they formed this line from 30 to sometimes 200 feet of water depth along the surface. The charter guys knew it. Especially a few who post here and on the other "flyfishing site" based out of Wellfleet. Look at the pictures posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, see the little yellow/red needlefish. Know where those fish were taken week after week in CC Bay? This behavior is thought to be spawning related, I have no idea. They do it and no one knows why really. The bass were there, just offshore, there was no real lack of bait just that when sandeels display this beahvior the beach goes dry. It is rare they do this for more than a year or two but they have been known to go four years before dispersing back to the sand and surf.

The fishing will back for beach bound casters, maybe this year, but it will be back. Lastly if you really know how to fish the beach you understand that nothing is ever to be taken for granted. I cannot tell you how many nights this past season I sat quietly and watched a lot of trucks hit the beach before dark and by ten or eleven I was all alone. Come the wee hours when the fish would finally show it was me and whoever was with me as far as we could see. And remember that ceratin beaches fish better at certain tides and sometimes for just a short period and if you cannot take the time to figure it out than you will never be successful. And lastly as echoed to me this past Saturday by one of the best coomercial bass fisherman to ever run the Cape sands since Arnold Laine, "there is just so much to know that you will never learn it all in one lifetime." But without being constantly at it you are doomed to failure.

Larry, you know I love you brother but two trips cannot judge a season. The more people who stop getting permits he more the ebach will be closed to our access. Just think how good a season it would have been if we had access to Wood End this year? No real reason for it to be closed. Who will fight for it if we give up?

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

i for one will keep buying the permit.no matter how bad the fishing is.to those that say there was no bait the last two years they obiviously didn't spend much time on the beach.two years ago there was a steady stream of peanuts along the RP beaches.this year not as many but sand eelwere about 50 yards out.in august there were schools of bass cruising around under the kayak most days, they just wouldn't hit anything.if you don't mind catching bluefish i would say fishing was pretty good. don't think there was a day were i didn't catch at least one but most days it was between 10 and 30.

[Rappin Mikey]

I'll keep getting the permit. Have met to many good people and new friends to stop. Yeah, the fishing wasn't as good, the seals sucked, and I had to do more walking then years past, but I still managed to find fish on a pretty consistant basis from shore. So what the heck!

[BigFish]

If I know me....I will get one anyway because I will feel naked without it!

[Back Beach]

Personally, I don't have the time, energy, or interest to fish there any more for reasons already enumerated(primarily time, though). As far as there being no fish there, that's b.s. That area is highly cyclical with regard to the surf fishing.Someone said 2007 could be the year and I agree. It may not be the year, either. When the surf was bad, we used boats and always found big numbers of fish out there.Why they don't eat the beach is beyond me, but if you keep at the place, you will get your rewards. When? I don't know.
The pressure to close the place down has been constant since the late 70's, its nothing new, either.The antis seem to be winning the war though, unfortunately.The guys who show up at these meetings to preserve our access deserve much credit.They are the primary reason we have any access at all right now, little as it is.I would guess with time the deep pockets will win out.Not sure if a little sticker revenue will change people's minds.I forget the breakdown, but the sticker revenues offset only a portion of the operating expenses. Its cheaper to shut everything down than keep it open, last time I checked. That's what we are up against. 3000? or so permits times $165=$495,000. Don't know the expenses, but they would have to be more than 1 million.Either way the place probably runs at a loss.Someone chime in if you have the actuals and correct me if I'm way off.

[Karl F]

Not trying to recreate the mess we had up there a few years ago, but, sticker sales are important, lack of sales to those in charge = lack of interest.
A clear example of this, in my town, this year, they saw a drop in the # of permits for Nauset Beach, and a drop the year prior... they are already factoring running the town without the revenue from the sticker sales, diminishing it to 0 income , projected out over the next 3-5 fiscal years, and some of the bean counters that run this town, are already saying what a savings it would be to the town to not have it, personel, (pay and bennies etc.) equipment, ( depreciation and maintenence etc.), etc. ... they even talk of it like it would be a Good Thing!.. I am sure the Park Service bean counters would look at a diminished sticker income the same way.
Buying a sticker, while it doesn't have the same bang for the buck it once did, is still a way, of telling those in charge, to Keep It Open!

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Not trying to recreate the mess we had up there a few years ago, but, sticker sales are important, lack of sales to those in charge = lack of interest.
A clear example of this, in my town, this year, they saw a drop in the # of permits for Nauset Beach, and a drop the year prior... they are already factoring running the town without the revenue from the sticker sales, diminishing it to 0 income , projected out over the next 3-5 fiscal years, and some of the bean counters that run this town, are already saying what a savings it would be to the town to not have it, personel, (pay and bennies etc.) equipment, ( depreciation and maintenence etc.), etc. ... they even talk of it like it would be a Good Thing!.. I am sure the Park Service bean counters would look at a diminished sticker income the same way.
Buying a sticker, while it doesn't have the same bang for the buck it once did, is still a way, of telling those in charge, to Keep It Open!

Hey Karl - hypothetically speaking of course, how much would that sticker run and what kind of access would a non-resident such as myself get?

It might be worth a couple stickers to maintain "interest". Investment sort of...

[Karl F]

2006 sticker for non residents was 180 bucks (ouch!)

http://www.town.orleans.ma.us/pdf/de.../orvinfo06.pdf

Access, depending on bird closures, etc., would be from main lot--> south, almost all the way to Chatham inlet, (fenced, but you can park and walk to it).. almost all the front beach, and access to some Pleasant Bay beaches, a little over 8.5 miles usually, from main lot to the last fence. Spring and Fall best for access, and fishing usually. (the only advantage of a Resident sticker in the access north to Nauset Inlet (approx 2.5 miles).. but that usually closes from Memorial Day to July 4th.. sometimes longer)

Unlike The NPS, ya can take a cruise almost anytime during the winter months at Nauset, as they leave it open all year.. nice diversion on a Sunday afternoon in January or February.. (low tides best )

[Maloney]

I look at it this way:

Membership in Mass. Audubon : Family $ 50, Protector $ 150, per year
Conservation Law Foundation: Basic Membership $ 30, Century Club- $ 100 per year
Sierra Club: Regular $ 25, Contributing $ 150.

I have been a member of two of these organisations and I don't give a rats arse if anyone is going to bash me about it. They are WRONG on the beach access issue. Open up the whole Seashore to what it was because from what I have heard the whole closure thing has been a government mess up from day one, ie. poor managment ,shortsightedness, and an illegal closure to boot. If access groups had equal education and financial support as the anti groups back then, I am certain everything would NOT have gone down as it has. Now we are fighting back.

Anyway, some years I buy 3 stickers, and some, like last, it is one. Some years I paid for Race Point , Nauset, and Sandy Neck and only saw Sandy Neck, twice, with the wife and kids, in the daytime. I think we have to put our money where it talks. These groups- and they do good work most of the time- have hundreds of thousands of members.We have how many men and women who are here now and will be here should OSV travel become just anyother fad?

Don't get NEGATIVE. It is the National Seashore which has to operated under certain rules. We have a documented legal and historic right to oversand access. All we need is a George Soros and his money on our side and the tune will play differently.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Not trying to recreate the mess we had up there a few years ago, but, sticker sales are important, lack of sales to those in charge = lack of interest.
A clear example of this, in my town, this year, they saw a drop in the # of permits for Nauset Beach, and a drop the year prior... they are already factoring running the town without the revenue from the sticker sales, diminishing it to 0 income , projected out over the next 3-5 fiscal years, and some of the bean counters that run this town, are already saying what a savings it would be to the town to not have it, personel, (pay and bennies etc.) equipment, ( depreciation and maintenence etc.), etc. ... they even talk of it like it would be a Good Thing!.. I am sure the Park Service bean counters would look at a diminished sticker income the same way.
Buying a sticker, while it doesn't have the same bang for the buck it once did, is still a way, of telling those in charge, to Keep It Open!

One thing you must remember Karl is that if Orleans/Chatham decide to fold on the running of Nauset (what's left) they would by agreement turn it over to actually has the final say on your beach that being the federal government and guess who? The National Park Service as Nauset beach is in fact part of the Cape Cod National Seashore. I have no idea what would happen then but most likely they would somehow keep it open and a. The CCNS ORV sticker would cover Nauset as well and b. the resident only north beach thing would go the way of the dinosoaur as it would be seen as discriminating as the park actually belongs to all US citizens, so your happy hunting ground to Nauset inlet would be open for business to all comers and this would of course be helpfull in the CCNS/NPS fight for control over south beach/south Monomoy. The dune camps might be better protected than they are now as they are actaully on Federal Land would be retained as historical landmarks and grandfathered use. Wow this might be a good thing for non residents to get a waider range of beach for our 150.00 sticker but suck for you townies as your sticker cost would go up and your resi beach would be open for all. Hmmmm...........

[Karl F]

Back Beah, where did you get your info.. last time I checked they were worried they would make money at the Seashore, (which, they cannot, by Law, at best they can break even, being a Federal agency, it is better for them if they run at a deficit.. so they can get more Fed $ the next fiscal year).

Nauset is still turning a "profit" for the town's general fund, even with diminished sticker sales.. the Park Dept. still has to fight the fin-com for their money, even tho, they are the dept. that generates that revenue.

Could it be just that a town runs a beach more effecient than the Fed's do?
That wouldn't be too hard to believe

Maloney .. someone will be hitting you up for a donation to the Legal Fund to offset your other donations

[Karl F]

Steve, I think that the powers that be here are counting on the Pochet washover being the determing factor as when to pull the plug on the south side.. they have already stated that they will keep the north open, forever..

The truly sad part is, the boards in Orleans and Chatham are too busy playing Hatfield and MacKoy to truly come to a workable solution.
Also the board in my town, is truly Clueless, regarding the beach...

[tattoobob]

No mater what happens I will be buying my stickers this year, The race point light house was closed for over 6 weeks in prime season, this is a loss of about $500.00 a day, they took a huge hit.

I use my permits in the spring and fall, I don't go in the daytime so, and this year most nights I would see no one other truck out there from long nook to race north. In the daylight hours it is bumper to bumper. It seems to me that it is turning into a beach goers SUV place to go. fishing doesn't seem to be the main reason to be there anymore

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Steve, I think that the powers that be here are counting on the Pochet washover being the determing factor as when to pull the plug on the south side.. they have already stated that they will keep the north open, forever..

The truly sad part is, the boards in Orleans and Chatham are too busy playing Hatfield and MacKoy to truly come to a workable solution.
Also the board in my town, is truly Clueless, regarding the beach...

That is where the Feds will step in if'n yer two towns don't git to seein I to I. ( The Goosey Goose had a nice holiday spread yesterday)

[Swimmer]

I remember the day the NSS was dedicated by Bobby Kennedy with Ted Kennedy in tow. I saw them land at the middle school in this old freikin helicopter that was a stones throw from the Visitor Ctr. on route 6. Things changed that day and have been changing ever since to that wonderful area. We used to drive anywhere we wanted to. Start at Coast Guard beach and head north or just drive to Nauset Inlet the other way. My neighbors had a camp on North Beach that we stayed at quite often. Nobody ever, ever bothered you. The last time I went out there was with a guy who worked at a tackle shop in North Eastham in the early 80's and there was actually a police officer running radar, writing tickets, on the inside road. I think at some point the only vehicles out there on the race will be the shuttle buses driven by the park ranger. I think some of us here are lucky that other folks like flaptail have an unabiding interest in keeping open the beaches that he takes the time to learn about the goings on.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Back Beah, where did you get your info.. last time I checked they were worried they would make money at the Seashore, (which, they cannot, by Law, at best they can break even, being a Federal agency, it is better for them if they run at a deficit.. so they can get more Fed $ the next fiscal year).

Karl,

I'm estimating the sticker income for CCNS stickers based on their cost and # of stickers. As for expenses, I don't know what it costs to run the OSV portion of the park, but would guess it is significantly greater than sticker revenue.Not sure if they break it out that way so anyone could interpret it and make an informed argument pro/con.

The more I read and hear this stuff, the more I love Rhody......

[Blitzseeker]

I will buy my sticker next year and every year until they stop selling them. That year, I will be arrested at least once for going out on the beach anyway.