Status of Patrick's Bass Bill ???

[WoodyCT]

Not sure if any action has taken place on this, but if anyone hears anything please post up.

[DZ]

I'm interested also. I thought it was dead but saw an article about it yesterday in a Rhode Island newspaper that said no commercial sale was still being considered in Mass legislature. Maybe it went back to committee for re-write.

DZ

[Doublerunner]

Word is that it will not pass right now but will be re-written and re-submitted when appropriate

[Nebe]

Cape Cod Times
%$
Protect Atlantic striped bass

By MATTHEW PATRICK
February 02, 2010 2:00 AM
In response to your editorial about striped bass (Jan. 25), I sponsored "An Act Relative to the Conservation of Atlantic Striped Bass" because I am concerned about the sustainability of the fishery and the impact its loss could have on the communities I represent.

The striped bass recreational fishery in Massachusetts is worth more than $1 billion to our economy vs. $24 million for the commercial fishery. That includes the primary and secondary economic impacts. Much of the secondary impacts of the recreational fishery are in the money fishermen spend in our coastal communities to buy equipment, food, lodging and other things.

If the striped bass fishery were to fail like it did from the mid-1970s to the mid-1980s, it would have a catastrophic impact on Cape Cod's economy as well as other coastal communities. I don't think we should risk it especially in these times.

The state Division of Marine Fisheries will say that the fishery is not at risk and the fishery is sustainable. What is important to remember is counting fish is, at best, an inexact science. It was under DMF's watch that the striped bass fishery collapsed, not that I blame them. I just use it as an example of how difficult it is to estimate fish stocks.

My key concern is that female spawning stocks are down for several years now and nearing the threshold thought safe by the Atlantic States Marine Fishery Council. While male striped bass seldom reach 30 inches in length, spawning females do reach that size. The limit that governs commercial fishermen is 34 inches, which means that most of the fish caught by commercial fishermen are usually large spawning females. This is not good for sustaining a fishery.

According to a peer-reviewed study that appeared in Science magazine on July 5, 2002, "management tools that preserve natural genetic variation are necessary for long-term sustainable yield."

I also think something should be done about the way we handle commercial permits. There were 3,599 commercial permits purchased in 2008. Only 1,207 permit holders reported catching any fish. One has to wonder if the 2,400 commercial permit holders, who do not report catching any striped bass, purchase the $65 permit just to avoid the two fish recreational limit per day. Commercial license holders can keep 30 fish per day.

In addition, all Atlantic Coast states, except Massachusetts, post advisory warnings on the striped bass for PCBs and mercury. These advisories go from no more than two meals per month to "avoid eating striped bass" in Rhode Island. Women and children are advised to not eat striped bass in several states.

However, I am not married to the particular language in my bill. I am open to amendments that will solve the problem or make it easier to accept. For example, I think the commercial people should be compensated for their losses.

It is estimated that the cost of such a program would be about $500,000 to replace the profit made by the commercial striped bass fishermen. This money could come out of the revenue generated by saltwater licenses or a stamp for striped bass on the license.

State Rep. Matthew Patrick represents the 3rd Barnstable District in the Massachusetts House.



Copyright © Cape Cod Media Group, a division of Ottaway Newspapers, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Nebe

However, I am not married to the particular language in my bill. I am open to amendments that will solve the problem or make it easier to accept. For example, I think the commercial people should be compensated for their losses.

It is estimated that the cost of such a program would be about $500,000 to replace the profit made by the commercial striped bass fishermen. This money could come out of the revenue generated by saltwater licenses or a stamp for striped bass on the license.

So let's close it and then PAY the part time, rod & reel, 8 week SB commercial fisherman. WTF?

I AM ^&#*## LOSING IT !!!!!!

[2na]

with all due respect to the matter at hand, the language stating that any collapse of the stocks 'would have a catastrophic impact on Cape Cod's economy as well as other coastal communities' is laughable. Anyone on the cape knows that the issue of closing beach due to mismanagement over the bird issue has had much more of a 'catastrophic impact on Cape Cod's economy' than even complete disappearance of bass ever would. Did anyone notice that, back when stripers were scarce, fisherman just switched to blues?

I don't think we should risk it especially in these times.

Again, if he wants to improve the cape economy, 'especially in these times', a much better way would be to direct his efforts to limiting the draconian restrictions on beach access during the months of June, July and August. Last time I checked, that is when many more people than bass fisherman arrive on the cape.

I have no problem discussing ways to conserve the stocks. But they had better have much better reasons than this.

It is estimated that the cost of such a program would be about $500,000 to replace the profit made by the commercial striped bass fishermen. This money could come out of the revenue generated by saltwater licenses or a stamp for striped bass on the license.

Great. Extort more money from us.

[Sashamy]

he is an idiot...he has a personal agenda...he does not care about the welfare of the stock, he cares about the welfare of himself and a couple other flyrod buddies that can't catch a schoolie in August in Waquoit Bay, that was their original gripe...then they said it was not an anti-commercial fishing bill...guys this is laughable...line four of the bill was prohibit the sale and impoortation of striped bass into ma...I don't understand what their actually gripe is? It is not the Ma commercial fishery that is causing any kind of problem...look at NJ trophy fish program, why not go after that? Look at the commercial fishing in MD they use nets why not focus on that? No because Of people like Jowett who is from ME they focus on Ma...well you know what I caught all the bass I wanted last year in the Kennebunk River, maybe Jowett and his aged cronies should learn to fish there and keep their nose out of MA business...when there is a problem, there will be more restrictive measures taken, the sky is not falling right now so there is no need to be Chicken Little in this situation

[Sashamy]

Better yet I just had an epiphany....how about you give the commercial guys a slot...28 to 34 inches...40 a day that would be great less pcb's include the males intothe fishery and your precious spawning females that you are so worried about would be somewhat spared...I'd go for that...more money for the fish as well!

[Karl F]

Originally Posted by 2na

Anyone on the cape knows that the issue of closing beach due to mismanagement over the bird issue has had much more of a 'catastrophic impact on Cape Cod's economy' than even complete disappearance of bass ever would. Did anyone notice that, back when stripers were scarce, fisherman just switched to blues?



Again, if he wants to improve the cape economy, 'especially in these times', a much better way would be to direct his efforts to limiting the draconian restrictions on beach access during the months of June, July and August. Last time I checked, that is when many more people than bass fisherman arrive on the cape.

.

ya think?

you are, of course, correct, but when was the last time anybody on Beacon Hill, or DC, even close to "getting" this?



they not only don't "get it"...they just plain don't care.

[Mr. Sandman]

Let me get this straight...Now we pay folks not to fish (most of whom were not fishing anyway?) What planet are these people from?

[Karl F]

Hey.. hows about last year??.. they were paying guys not to shellfish, ... buddy of mine with a commercial digger permit, ( and like most diggers, he only does it for "side money")...gets a form in the mail, fills it out...based on his previous years slips, he gets a nice fat check....all because of Red Tide.... he has a bad back..(as most long time diggers do)... he is not kidding... he is truly hoping for long time Red Tide closures again... just getting the same amount of dough in the mail, for filling out a form...is a LOT easier on the old back....

How can us who drive the beaches, get a check for having it closed 90 plus days a summer???

I mean WTH.. anymore room on the gravy train???

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by Karl F

...I mean WTH.. anymore room on the gravy train???

If there is, Karl, give me a shout - I just might start thinking about emigrating to the Promised Land

I could get paid for not digging and not fishing...yeah, that's the ticket...

Hey, there aren't any border guards on the Sagamore Bridge are there...

[Redsoxticket]

I think the 500k is what the state wants to recoupe from lost commercial SB licenses and not a payback to commercials.
Otherwise it makes no sense because 500k devided among
the commercial license holders is about $100 +/-
There is no need for this 500k because it can be made up by substaning the $1 billion industry.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnnyD]

I haven't read the actual proposal. Having just read the above, his supporting case is weak.

One of the major positions stated by Basic Patrick for MSBA being against the Stripers Forever bill was that we should trust the regulation process that is already in place.

Yet, a question that the opponents to the bill could never answer is why we're suppose to support a process that has already failed severely. During the collapse, action wasn't taken until the regulatory hand was forced. Now, we're supposed to trust data like YOY indexes are consistent?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

Better yet I just had an epiphany....how about you give the commercial guys a slot...28 to 34 inches...40 a day that would be great less pcb's include the males intothe fishery and your precious spawning females that you are so worried about would be somewhat spared...I'd go for that...more money for the fish as well!

Yes, why would we want to protect those "precious spawning females". You're projected mindset is what's wrong with commercial fisherman - all about the Benjamins. It's not about the fish. If you were a logger, you'd want to indiscriminately clear cut every forest; if you were a farmer, you'd use poisons and other toxins without regard for its effects.

In a well-managed system, I think commercial fishing *can* exist harmoniously with the rest of the system. However, we have a terribly managed fishery system and commercial fishermen that think any regulation is too much regulation. Guys like above make the respectable R&R guys who care about preserving the resource for everyone's benefit look bad.

The fishery has already crashed once. At this rate, it's only a matter of time before it can't recover.

[Nebe]

Johnny, the fishery did crash once, but let's not forget about the tons of pcbs and mercury that were being dumped into the spawning waters...
I'm all for protecting the fish, but it is foolish to point fingers when there are several variables at play.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Mr. Sandman]

Well said.

( From what I've seen...PCB's have been cleaned up for the most part, It is illegal to dump them anymore, it will take a little time for the residual to work its way out of the system)

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Yes, why would we want to protect those "precious spawning females". You're projected mindset is what's wrong with commercial fisherman - all about the Benjamins. It's not about the fish. If you were a logger, you'd want to indiscriminately clear cut every forest; if you were a farmer, you'd use poisons and other toxins without regard for its effects.

In a well-managed system, I think commercial fishing *can* exist harmoniously with the rest of the system. However, we have a terribly managed fishery system and commercial fishermen that think any regulation is too much regulation. Guys like above make the respectable R&R guys who care about preserving the resource for everyone's benefit look bad.

The fishery has already crashed once. At this rate, it's only a matter of time before it can't recover.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Johnny, the fishery did crash once, but let's not forget about the tons of pcbs and mercury that were being dumped into the spawning waters...
I'm all for protecting the fish, but it is foolish to point fingers when there are several variables at play.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Another argument against further regulation. "The stock might be struggling, but fishing can't be directly to blame so we shouldn't limit how many fish are taken."

I'm not pointing fingers directly at commercial fisherman. A fish that doesn't reach maturity due to PCBs is no different than a fish taken by a recreational fisherman. If PCBs, mercury and algae are killing fish early in their life, then fewer fish should be allowed to be killed later in life.

[Doublerunner]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

he is an idiot...he has a personal agenda...he does not care about the welfare of the stock, he cares about the welfare of himself and a couple other flyrod buddies that can't catch a schoolie in August in Waquoit Bay, that was their original gripe...then they said it was not an anti-commercial fishing bill...guys this is laughable...line four of the bill was prohibit the sale and impoortation of striped bass into ma...I don't understand what their actually gripe is? It is not the Ma commercial fishery that is causing any kind of problem...look at NJ trophy fish program, why not go after that? Look at the commercial fishing in MD they use nets why not focus on that? No because Of people like Jowett who is from ME they focus on Ma...well you know what I caught all the bass I wanted last year in the Kennebunk River, maybe Jowett and his aged cronies should learn to fish there and keep their nose out of MA business...when there is a problem, there will be more restrictive measures taken, the sky is not falling right now so there is no need to be Chicken Little in this situation

Who has the agenda here??? Like all comm fishermen you will say anything to divert attention and paint the rosey picture of all is well because all you care about is the money. You do not care about the health of the stock and when they are gone you will move on to another species.

IMO the stock can be sustained for all with a reduction for all. Recs keep 1 per trip max. Comm's get 20 per trip max. slot limit hell yeah 28 - 34

Otherwise we just keep going along like nothing is wrong and when the comm's have no more left then they'll be complaining just like the rest of us that something needs to be done. We all share in it and we all need to be responsible and do our part. If we all cut back now then we can avoid major problems down the road

All those comm licenses that reported no catch should be gone. You don't report your catch or have no catch then you lose the license the following year

[Sashamy]

Johnny
You sure know how to speak out of both sides of your mouth! You said in some other posts that commercial fishing sucks...now you turn around and say it can exist but us greedy commercial fishermen are going to ruin it????I was merely being funny because SF kept saying they weren't anti commercial yet they keep trying to shut it down like it is the pariah causing the problem! It is not the problem! It does exist now with a f@#$ing limit! Get the f@#k over it! When the limit is caught the season is over and then most people go back to recreational or charter fishing anyway and you know what the slaughter continues. Commercial bass fishing does not hurt the population as much as recreational fishing! Fly rods kill fish, bait fishermen kill fish, wire lining kills fish, pcb and toxins kill fish, catch and release practices kill fish! The only way to save them is to make them a pet, lets domesticate them and feed them herring like a dolphin trainer would ast sea world. Get off your %$%$%$%$ing high horse and stop blaming MA DMF and commercial fishing for a collapse that happened 30 years ago...it was not Massachusetts fault that epa regs were not very strict just as it was not the guy keeping the 16 inch fish's fault! Matt Patrick is a #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, he really thinks that 2400 people are bringing numbers of uncounted bass home to eat...this whole thing is atrocious and unreasonable.

[Sashamy]

Really I am greedy because I choose to make money by fishing? chartering? Lobstering? Horseshoe crabbing? Tuna fishing? I am greedy because I work? I also work in the family business...I like money and I make in ways that I am good at it? I lost my groundfish permit due to political red tape, next someone tries to take away my bass license???? Why I report every year, last year I caught x amount of pounds worth x amount of dollars...does Matt Patrick have the right to take that away from me? Does some special interest group have the right to take that away from me or someone else? What do you guys do for work? Are you doctors? or Lawyers? What if someone went to congress and said you know what I think that people should be able to self diagnose and write their own perscriptions because doctors are too expensive????? See how ridiculous that sounds....it is it stupid just like the SF bill sponsored by Patrick. The commercial quota has a hard tac, unlike cod or haddock...when it si reached it is over done...why can't you understand that simple concept????? The recreational side, which I am also a part of, does not have a quota nor a season for that matter. We the commercial side have never fought with the rec. side, but we are always forced to fight back because we are always under fire. Sorry if you don't like me but I don't care, I speak my mind in rational ways not some fantasy land that half of you would like to live in...it really becomes a problem when you start to put fish before people...

[MikeToole]

Unlike other industeries for some reason people think we need to compensate commercial fisherman when there is a lack of work for them. The two issues many had with the original bill was game fish status and the slot limit. Patrick hasn't given up on the game fish status but he is open to suggestions. Maybe it was stripers forever that got the ball rolling but here is a chance to modify the bill and remove the slot and maybe shift to a one fish limit as many suggested in post under other threads. Now is an opportunity to change it from the SF bill to the Mass recreational fisherman bill.

Some say leave regulation to ASMFC and don't get politicians involved. What a bill like this does is gives your state rep at the ASMFC an understand of what the people from the state want.

I agree that closing off beaches hurts the cape businesses but don't under estimate the effect no bass would have. I like many others, make about six trips a season to the cape, that I wouldn't be making if there were no bass.

[Sashamy]

wow its a good thing our state rep supports our sector....but you probably didn't hear Sarah at Boston

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

Johnny
You sure know how to speak out of both sides of your mouth! You said in some other posts that commercial fishing sucks...now you turn around and say it can exist but us greedy commercial fishermen are going to ruin it????I was merely being funny because SF kept saying they weren't anti commercial yet they keep trying to shut it down like it is the pariah causing the problem! It is not the problem! It does exist now with a f@#$ing limit! Get the f@#k over it! When the limit is caught the season is over and then most people go back to recreational or charter fishing anyway and you know what the slaughter continues. Commercial bass fishing does not hurt the population as much as recreational fishing! Fly rods kill fish, bait fishermen kill fish, wire lining kills fish, pcb and toxins kill fish, catch and release practices kill fish! The only way to save them is to make them a pet, lets domesticate them and feed them herring like a dolphin trainer would ast sea world. Get off your %$%$%$%$ing high horse and stop blaming MA DMF and commercial fishing for a collapse that happened 30 years ago...it was not Massachusetts fault that epa regs were not very strict just as it was not the guy keeping the 16 inch fish's fault! Matt Patrick is a #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, he really thinks that 2400 people are bringing numbers of uncounted bass home to eat...this whole thing is atrocious and unreasonable.

Thank you for reaffirming my point on how people like you are the reason respectable R&R commercial guys get a bad rap. Pretty much everything I posted about, you've supported.

First off, I keep very few fish (2 last year, and both were bleeding heavily when they got to shore) nor buy fish at market. As such, a no-take fishery is most beneficial to *me*. I've been pretty consistent in stating that. Also like I said in my above post, commercial fishing is not viable given our current system and until that system changes, it will continue to not be viable. Until the system is fixed, commercial fishing should go away *along* with severely decreased limits on recs - because, yes, both are to blame. You say that we shouldn't consider a collapse that happened 30 years ago, but you've obviously never heard the saying "those who choose to ignore the past are destined to repeat it."

Second, in the second line I bolded, you're admitting that given the current state of the striped bass, they can't be saved. Which again reaffirms my point that you're one of those commercial guys that wants to exploit the seas for everything that it can give up until it is completely depleted.

I guess my analogy about if you were a logger, you'd clear cut every forest possible was dead on. The unnecessary swearing at me doesn't help your point either.

[Sea Flat]

I am not going to say I agree with everything that Patrick has to say, BUT frankly, most of what he wrote was spot on. The tough part for him is how to figure out how to be fair to the commercial fishermen. To me, and seamingly to all of you, paying them with money generated from a fishing license is not the way to go. For me to be completely on board with him this would have to change.

However, his numbers on protecting the fish stocks were great and his reasoning works too. I do not think Patrick has an agenda except to protect the fishery for fishermen, store owners, club/hotel owners etc. Don't tell me that every fisherman would just switch to catching blues either. That is a horrible excuse, plus Patrick is trying to avoid that happening again. Isn't that a good thing?

[Slipknot]

well, this thread is going well

[Sashamy]

Funny Johnny...you don't know me but u assume I am greedy.....if only you could see two ways instaed of just one...if I thought there was a problem with any fish I would be on the side of conservation..for instance I don't like gill netting and or dragging...however I understand that with out those two gear types people will not have access to grey sole, yellowtail flounder, monkfish scallops ect...I believe in hard tacs(total allowable catch) that eliminates bycatch, I also believe in fishing systems that use hook and line...such as the bass season we have in massachusetts or the hook sectors they have set up on Georges. You think I am some uneducated fisherman from god knows where who swears and beats his wife while drinking a 30 pack of bud...guess what i ahve a degree from Providence College, I am married with two beautiful girls, one is 3 and one was born 7 days ago. I love taking my 3 year old fishing, why would I want to catch the last fish available???? Infact most commercial bass/tuna guys like me think very unlike dragger and gillnet men. We aire on the side of caution..like this CITES situation with the tuna, I have caught hundreds of Giant Bluefin Tuna, the past few years have been awful, do i agree with a CITES listing, no, my reason is not monetary it is because of fairness, the us fisherman has not caused this decline the med did, and now we have to suffer. That is not fair to the average american fisherman. I am not a greedy person, if I thought the striper was ready to crash I would agree with some of you, but never with Matt Patrick. Johnny I could go on forever...but I know one thing I am not greedy, I fish with a rod/reel and a harpoon whats the harm in that?????

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

Funny Johnny...you don't know me but u assume I am greedy.....if only you could see two ways instaed of just one...if I thought there was a problem with any fish I would be on the side of conservation..for instance I don't like gill netting and or dragging...however I understand that with out those two gear types people will not have access to grey sole, yellowtail flounder, monkfish scallops ect...I believe in hard tacs(total allowable catch) that eliminates bycatch, I also believe in fishing systems that use hook and line...such as the bass season we have in massachusetts or the hook sectors they have set up on Georges. You think I am some uneducated fisherman from god knows where who swears and beats his wife while drinking a 30 pack of bud...guess what i ahve a degree from Providence College, I am married with two beautiful girls, one is 3 and one was born 7 days ago. I love taking my 3 year old fishing, why would I want to catch the last fish available???? Infact most commercial bass/tuna guys like me think very unlike dragger and gillnet men. We aire on the side of caution..like this CITES situation with the tuna, I have caught hundreds of Giant Bluefin Tuna, the past few years have been awful, do i agree with a CITES listing, no, my reason is not monetary it is because of fairness, the us fisherman has not caused this decline the med did, and now we have to suffer. That is not fair to the average american fisherman. I am not a greedy person, if I thought the striper was ready to crash I would agree with some of you, but never with Matt Patrick. Johnny I could go on forever...but I know one thing I am not greedy, I fish with a rod/reel and a harpoon whats the harm in that?????

You're right, I don't know you, aside from your own posts above which have personified you as the type of commercial fisherman that will exhaust a resource beyond recovery and then move on to the next one to exploit. I never made any assumptions on your education or background.

You most certainly do err on the side of caution. Cautiously protecting your wallet with an attitude of "until the fish stock is in total collapse, don't regulate me."

[Sashamy]

Johnny,
Right again I would love to catch every fish in the ocean so i would not be able to go to work that would be great....which fish stock is in total collapse form the rod and reel????? I would love to meet and have a beer with you though you seem like a fun guy to banter with...

[Nebe]

I think what is fair is if the commercial take is banned, the rec take should be banned as well.. anything else is a fish grab. personally, I could care less if i had to let everyone go... is rather eat fluke