TWO BASS FOR RI CHARTER AND PARTY BOATS?

[dannyplug1]

In my travels I have heard some rumors to the effect that the RI charter and party boat guys will try to get two bass rather than the one bass that the recs will have to abide by. They complain that they cant make a living with out the extra fish. Especially at the beginning and end of the season when they put themselves in the black for the season. They argue that they give fish in some other way such as not fishing on certain days for example (note they might have other suggestions that I have not heard about). I strenuously object. If RI gives an advantage to the for hire guys all the states will want it for their guys and it will continue down the coast. Furthermore if there is a perceived inequity people are less likely to follow the rules. E.g.. the Chesapeake guys are allowed to take fish at 18 inches why cant we? Lastly, on a charter boat what's to say if the captain wants to get more meat for his or her fairs they could give his and the mates one fish to the clients. Would like to hear from some party or charter boat guys to hear if this is true and their reasons for lobbying for two fish. thanks

[tlapinski]

New York began looking into mode splits the day after the SB meeting, so it is not just RI looking for such measures. My guess is that RI & NY will get their way and then CT will be pigeon-holed into following suit and MA may end up following their lead as well. NJ made it very apparent at the meeting in Mystic that they wanted a 2-fish bag limit and were really the driving force behind the conservation equivalency measure being added to the regulations.

As far as a boat taking fish for their crew, it is currently only illegal to do so in NY. I will not comment on how often it occurs or make any generalizations as to its practice, but I will say that it is perfectly legal to do so in most states.

[thefishingfreak]

yes true, the charter boat association is asking for a higher limit on for hire trips in Mass.

[DZ]

We're now trying to line up a listing of for hires that will continue to support a one fish bag here in RI - I have a list of them to counter the groups that may be pushing for a two fish bag. Any other Rhode island for hires that will support one fish is encouraged to let me know who you are so we can add you and organize. I recommend each state do this.

This may be a very contentious issue and I realize that The Fisherman Magazine and OTW walk a fine line here as many of their advertisers are from the industry.

[thefishingfreak]

We (the stellwagen bank charter boat assn.) are asking for a 2 fish@33" limit on for hire trips with charters on board

[niko]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

We (the stellwagen bank charter boat assn.) are asking for a 2 fish@33" limit on for hire trips with charters on board

and that sucks

[thefishingfreak]

especially for the boats who guarantee keepers or the trip is free

[Rob Rockcrawler]

I am not a fan of separate regs for "for-hire" vessels. Get your limit of bass then go for other species just like now. No shares for the Capt and crew. I only went on a charter once about 15 years ago. 6 pack and we took home 18 bass with a mess of blues and fluke. I know the fluke was eaten and a couple meals worth of bass, i know the majority was thrown away probably with freezer burn. It's about the catch not the keep.

[Clammer]

so WTF is the difference from before . except the size ............................ it still come down to two fish X the number of persons on the charter & then add the Capatain & mate .................... its polotics [sp] as usual

same old B/S .

if it was Cod or Scup , or sea bass I could see fighting for whst you can get .

But bass .... we are tring to save what,s left of them ?>

many of the bass charters arn,t out for the meat ...... many don,t even want or take the fish .

same as you go Giant tuna fishing , sailfishing , etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Its all about the experience

[Rockport24]

Agreed. why do charters need to keep two fish per person? I would think a HALF of a fish per person is plenty, let alone one.

[FishermanTim]

Maybe there should be size limits for EVERYONE, rec's and comm's, and have it apply to EVERY STATE that harvests stripers?

That way no one state will have an edge, and for states that harbor the overwintering populations, they should do more to protect the YOY for future generations instead of just trying to "get theirs" before they're gone!

Oh, and how about ensuring that the fish we are saving by lowering our catch allowances have enough food to survive? That means no more net dragging for herring and shad and baitfish of ALL species that are being killed annually?

Sure, saving the stripers is a good, heart-warming, earthy-crunchy idea of lofty morals, but saving fish so they die from starvation and disease (from stress of starvation) is kind of doing things the way government has ALWAYS done things....half-arsed!

[Slipknot]

ONE fish coastwide
no whining allowed
if they are afraid at one fish, customers won't hire them, tough chit, man up
when the going gets tough, the tough get going so get the hell going and work harder , be more creative, this age of entitlement is getting rediculous. screw that
I'm not a fan of separate regulations either
just look at the cod WTF

[dannyplug1]

The rules should be the same coast wide. No ifs ands or buts. If your interested in fairness maybe every one fisherman be they commercial, rec for hire should be allowed to take one fish. And with that fish they should be allowed to sell it eat it or let it go so long as they take one fish and adhere to the legal size limit. I am sure this wouldn't work but its an interesting idea.

[Raider Ronnie]

FISHING IS STUPID.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Linesider82]

The solution is simple, we need to kill less fish, and it needs to happen from everyone. Recreational, Charter, Commercial.

The solution is also currently impossible due to the divided coast-wide attitude of fishermen.

If you catch the last breeding female striped bass, I hope you release it.
I will, but I will also innovate and change my ways to ensure we don't see that day (again).

[afterhours]

Originally Posted by DZ

We're now trying to line up a listing of for hires that will continue to support a one fish bag here in RI - I have a list of them to counter the groups that may be pushing for a two fish bag. Any other Rhode island for hires that will support one fish is encouraged to let me know who you are so we can add you and organize. I recommend each state do this.

*Good going Dennis..

This may be a very contentious issue and I realize that The Fisherman Magazine and OTW walk a fine line here as many of their advertisers are from the industry.

*They can't be on both sides....man up.

[buckman]

If the targeted reduction in overall mortality is hit then what difference does it make who is allowed to catch what?
There are very few species left for the charters to target. A lot of these guys that come up and do a charter spend a ton of money in the areas and only do it once or twice a year
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[afterhours]

why should an angler who fishes on a charter boat be allowed to keep twice as many stripers as the guy in the surf? because he paid to go on a boat? or how about joe blow on his own boat he can only keep one? I will support those charters in favor of the 1 fish per angler, the others- not so much.

[buckman]

What I am saying is, if in the end , the targeted reduction is obtained ,then why would it really matter if the charterboats ,in order to maintain their businesses, be allowed to keep two per client? Is this about the health of the bass biomass or about tit for tat. I don't get to keep two so no one should .....
Sounds pretty damn immature to me
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[stripermaineiac]

Greed. That's always been the problem.Commercial is comercial no matter how you look at it.The charters complain about all the wasted fish that the charters don't want to make themselves sound good.Till it comes to shack money.
We always have been our own worst enemy and that will never change. GREED>GREED>GREED. Gamefish is the only way to shut down the greed,or catch n release.We went to circle hook for bait. South of us it's treble hook catch ,kill then release.
Cod fish is heading towards protected in a few yrs. Stripers aren,t far behind. SAD.

[Slipknot]

It's about the resource
conservation
and sacrifice
all should be on the same rule, just because the marine fisheries so called managers came up with this option, doesn't make it the correct one.
Customers will still hire boats so their group can go out for a day, excuses about needing 2 fish I am not buying that, I call bull. It is simply greed if you ask me. They have all gotten used to the 2 fish per day per angler thing for so many years. Go to one for all and the population of bass might not be in so much trouble. See how it goes in 3 years. IMO if they cave to this 2 fish thing for charters and give the longer length limit, it goes against conservation and puts the responsibility on those who will really conserve bass.

And Afterhours is 100 percent right.
I also agree with DZ
Let's get that list and let it be known which businesses really wish to conserve the bass and support them not the others.
Something should have been done LAST year but it was not.

There used to be Atlantic Salmon in good numbers from shore along with cod and other fish, gee I wonder what happened to all those fish

[afterhours]

Originally Posted by buckman

What I am saying is, if in the end , the targeted reduction is obtained ,then why would it really matter if the charterboats ,in order to maintain their businesses, be allowed to keep two per client? Is this about the health of the bass biomass or about tit for tat. I don't get to keep two so no one should .....
Sounds pretty damn immature to me
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

what I'm saying is that no one should get 2 period, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.....and very good for the fish I may be a bit immature but in this case, I take this chit very seriously.

[ivanputski]

This is what happens when you try to make everyone happy instead of doing whats right...


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[stripermaineiac]

1 fish or catch n release. It never changes no matter how bad things get. we can't be trusted to do what's right no matter what. There's always someone trying to pad their own nest at the expense of the fish and everyone trying to preserve whats there so we have future fishing.
Don's right . we need a list of those working against the general good and post it.Let their actions show who they are. I for one am gettin tired of those that misrepresent themselves as preservation types then when it's time to make posetive changes they want a special limits for their small group.

[Dave Peros]

First off, let me admit up front that I prefer to call myself a "fishing guide" rather than a "charter captain" because my approach to taking folks out is to educate them about fishing and emphasize catch-and-release. I would say of the 125 to 150 trips I take a year, about six to ten fish are kept overall. I might practice strictly catch and release myself when fishing, but there is no place on my boat for browbeating an angler who wants to take a single fish for the table - and hopefully not an exceptionally large female fish that is far more important live than dead.
When I went into business, I elected to go small in terms of my boat and emphasize light tackle casting and fly fishing catch-and-release because I believed that would be a sustainable approach. It is really aggravating to listen to charter captains, who through their "keep the max each and every trip" have contributed to the stock problems we are facing, whine about needing more dead fish to stay in business. I have had some heated discussions with charter captains I know about the double dip of chartering and commercial fishing on the same day and have often wondered what everyone's take is on this being a legal activity in Massachusetts. I make a living through guiding and certainly not a killing, but I have never been able to figure out the logic of captains who say that being able to make an additional buck on commercial days by selling excess fish is necessary, when they are already picking up a pay check for a charter!
It is like "deja vu all over again" when I listen to charter captains, whether it is arguing that there are still plenty of bass out there, they have moved, they are in the EEZ, etc., or that they deserve a bigger share because they are in the business of catching fish. I see their "blindness" mirrored in the complaints offered up by the ground fish fleet that couldn't see beyond the tip of their noses and the dollars in their wallets and now have the audacity to try and blame others for their greed or say there is no problem because they have managed to find a limited aggregation of fish in a small geographical area when there should be fish everywhere. I will agree that the fisheries' management and science has been woefully inadequate and contributed to the problem, but ultimately fishermen are guilty of creating their own messes. We like to romanticize the commercial and charter fisherman, but doing so let's too many of them off the hook for painting themselves in a corner.
I am fortunate to fish each year with anglers who share my values and hopefully will return if they are happy with the "job" I am doing, but if my business is negatively impacted by the greed and short sighted approach of other charter captains, so-called "commercial" striped bass anglers in Massachusetts, and recreational anglers who feel it is OK to kill their limit each and every time they fish, be assured that the government won't be coming to bail me out as they have done with the commercial ground fish fleet. Tackle shops, tackle manufacturers, and other businesses that will suffer if folks can't come and enjoy a healthy, vibrant fishery. But here we are with certain groups of charter captains asking for a "bail out" that isn't an option for anglers who aren't responsible for the mess we are in.
What's saddest for me is to see some of the newer generation of captains here on the Cape posting glory photos on their websites of piles of dead bass, just as it was done in the past. Never in my wildest imagination did I believe we would have made it to this point with striped bass after having gone through the collapse that we saw just three decades ago. I don't hear as well as I once did and I wonder if it is getting worse by the day when I actually hear the same kind of statements that were bandied about during the last collapse.
But here we are again with some folks asking for special dispensation so they can kill more fish and government institutions are doing everything to accommodate them through games such as "conservation equivalency", while casting a blind eye towards what their own technical committee and studies are showing. In the end, I guess it's true what they say: "Insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting different results."

[Nebe]

Charter captains are taking recreational fishermen fishing. Therefore , a recreational limit shall apply.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Dave Peros

First off, let me admit up front that I prefer to call myself a "fishing guide" rather than a "charter captain" because my approach to taking folks out is to educate them about fishing and emphasize catch-and-release. I would say of the 125 to 150 trips I take a year, about six to ten fish are kept overall. I might practice strictly catch and release myself when fishing, but there is no place on my boat for browbeating an angler who wants to take a single fish for the table - and hopefully not an exceptionally large female fish that is far more important live than dead.
When I went into business, I elected to go small in terms of my boat and emphasize light tackle casting and fly fishing catch-and-release because I believed that would be a sustainable approach. It is really aggravating to listen to charter captains, who through their "keep the max each and every trip" have contributed to the stock problems we are facing, whine about needing more dead fish to stay in business. I have had some heated discussions with charter captains I know about the double dip of chartering and commercial fishing on the same day and have often wondered what everyone's take is on this being a legal activity in Massachusetts. I make a living through guiding and certainly not a killing, but I have never been able to figure out the logic of captains who say that being able to make an additional buck on commercial days by selling excess fish is necessary, when they are already picking up a pay check for a charter!
It is like "deja vu all over again" when I listen to charter captains, whether it is arguing that there are still plenty of bass out there, they have moved, they are in the EEZ, etc., or that they deserve a bigger share because they are in the business of catching fish. I see their "blindness" mirrored in the complaints offered up by the ground fish fleet that couldn't see beyond the tip of their noses and the dollars in their wallets and now have the audacity to try and blame others for their greed or say there is no problem because they have managed to find a limited aggregation of fish in a small geographical area when there should be fish everywhere. I will agree that the fisheries' management and science has been woefully inadequate and contributed to the problem, but ultimately fishermen are guilty of creating their own messes. We like to romanticize the commercial and charter fisherman, but doing so let's too many of them off the hook for painting themselves in a corner.
I am fortunate to fish each year with anglers who share my values and hopefully will return if they are happy with the "job" I am doing, but if my business is negatively impacted by the greed and short sighted approach of other charter captains, so-called "commercial" striped bass anglers in Massachusetts, and recreational anglers who feel it is OK to kill their limit each and every time they fish, be assured that the government won't be coming to bail me out as they have done with the commercial ground fish fleet. Tackle shops, tackle manufacturers, and other businesses that will suffer if folks can't come and enjoy a healthy, vibrant fishery. But here we are with certain groups of charter captains asking for a "bail out" that isn't an option for anglers who aren't responsible for the mess we are in.
What's saddest for me is to see some of the newer generation of captains here on the Cape posting glory photos on their websites of piles of dead bass, just as it was done in the past. Never in my wildest imagination did I believe we would have made it to this point with striped bass after having gone through the collapse that we saw just three decades ago. I don't hear as well as I once did and I wonder if it is getting worse by the day when I actually hear the same kind of statements that were bandied about during the last collapse.
But here we are again with some folks asking for special dispensation so they can kill more fish and government institutions are doing everything to accommodate them through games such as "conservation equivalency", while casting a blind eye towards what their own technical committee and studies are showing. In the end, I guess it's true what they say: "Insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting different results."

What he said

[piemma]

Originally Posted by afterhours

why should an angler who fishes on a charter boat be allowed to keep twice as many stripers as the guy in the surf? because he paid to go on a boat? or how about joe blow on his own boat he can only keep one? I will support those charters in favor of the 1 fish per angler, the others- not so much.

Sure, great point. So I take my nephews on my boat and everyone chips in for gas. Now, if I have a 6 pack license I'm a charter so we can all keep 2 fish a piece.

THIS IS STUPID!!! ONE FISH PER DAY PER ANGLER. PERIOD!!!!!!

[big jay]

The Cape Cod Charter Boat Association already came out in favor of 1 @ 28".
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[piemma]

Originally Posted by big jay

The Cape Cod Charter Boat Association already came out in favor of 1 @ 28".
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device