searching the water column

[steelhead]

How do you search the water column with a swimming plug? Change the lip angle? Add split shot to the running line? Or do different plugs work for different levels in the water? I'm sure that some of it has to do with the water you're fishing and whether it's moving, surf, rocks etc. has a lot to do with your approach. I got lots of questions like this. Trying to correlate how I search the water column flyfishing relates to plugs. Got a whole lot of other technique questions that I'll be asking over the winter.

[bassmaster]

pick a plug You use, and I will try to Help

[Mike P]

Do what I do---throw a jig or some rigged rubbah instead. Depending on the weight and your retrieve, you can fish it anywhere in the water column.

Unweighted platic is your dries, weighted plastic is your wets, and jigs are your nymphs.

[scoobe]

In general, bending the lip up will make it run deeper and bending it down will make it run shallower. Extremes in either direction will destroy the action of the plug.

[steelhead]

Mike P, your analogy helps, especially compared to trout fishing. In fact, I use a lot of wet fly trout fishing techniques in my saltwater fly fishing for stripers and blues. Bassmaster, I'm new enough to saltwater plug fishing that I'm still learning names of plugs. so maybe one of my questions might be, different plugs for different water? Estuaries, beaches, bars, rocks, etc.? I think I need to try to rephrase my question a bit. Maybe the best way to do it is to describe what I've learned so far, which is from fly fishing for bass and blues, and try to find out/figure out how it may or may not cross over to plug fishing. I will also say right up front that the more I learn about fishing for these critters, the more I discover that I don't know and often times, am totally baffled!

I like to fish current. That seems to where I find most of my bass. I have found current in the tidal estuaries, along the beaches, bars, and rocks. When I fish the current, generally I start at the top of the water column with a floating line, my leader and a fly (usualy some sort of flatwing). I'll cast and dead drift, keeping in touch with the fly, but I try let the current provide a great deal of the action to the fly, which means at times, it's fished very slowly with me soimply maintaining conatc with the fly. The I'll add split shot to the leader, so that I'm progressively moving deeper and deeper in the water column, untill I'm bottom bumping. I'll also play with some retrieves to see if that triggers strikes as I search the column.

Even on beaches, at the beach break, I have found wonderful current and mini rips that will carry youre line quite a ways out from shore, often with feeding fish at the bereak or at the edges of the rips.

Rocks, where the wash rides up and back down, when you time it right, can doa all sorts of things for you.

I guess what I'm wondering is whether the same sort of finesse exists with plugs. I have always found it to be a much more cerebral approach as opposed to the same old cast and strip technique. From my limited experience with plugs this fall, there seems to be quite a lot of cross over and room for a huge variety of presentations and techniques.

Sorry of this rambles. In time the questions will become more focused.

[steelhead]

Scoobe, Thanks for the help. I guess next spring I'll get to learn about how plugs are really supposed to swim and how far I can push them before a particular kind of plug's action is ruined. I'm looking forward to that! Can you get a particular plug to run deeper by incrementally adding split shot to the running line in front of the plug without hurting then plug's action?

[bassmaster]

Steel,
Ok skip the struckture thing for now.
lets just say Your working a sand bar with an opening ant there is Yeah a rip pulling Your plug out.
You could start with a bomber.
You got to find out How the fish want it.
so You fan cast and work the bomber erratic. stop drift slow, twitch ect.
When You find how the bass want it , then that is the key.
keep in mind most the time the water is only 3 to 8 feet deep in most cases. so they will mor than likly be in the upper water.
/top 3'/
its a matter of presentation. You got to get a rythem down as how Your plan of attack is with plugging.
A dead drift may be how they want it, Just like alot of bait here on the cape as to say suspended.
Then on to a straight retrive and then move to a stop and go retrieve and then on to modifyed retrives as in dead twitch reel fast then slow ect.
The parimount Key here is after You learn how to master the art of negotiating a plug in rips bars, then comes color choice and when to swap out to another type of lure.
You need 3 things

1) top water could be a popper a danny a pikie or prop worked on top even a bomber or red fin If Your real good.
and unweighted rubber. pikes
did I say needle

2) swimmer that will work the top water column
as in bombers, Yozuries, megabaits ect (plastic) darters
diving dannys or A40 type lures , surfsters and the cowboys by Beachmaster
weighted rubber , castmasters tin ect Lead heads with 6" rubber
cant tell You haw many 30lb bass on those, killer here.
did I say slow sinking needle

3 working the bottom.
tin, in heavy surf and nasty weather reach for this 1st kastmaster and yes they do catch fish at night and they do get large
< My best on a 3 oz is 40 lbs! >
lead head in 3/4 oz or 1 oz rigged with 6" GS rubber.
plus the 9" and 13" has its time and place and thats what You need to learn.
I tell You this from exp You need to buy pearl white, yellow and pink! and then work in the other colors.
bucktails and some plugs You have tuned to dive deep.
And the brain to know how to keep these on the bottom and plugs working deep, its a feel thing.

I can talk till Im blue in the face But exp is Your only key to becoming good at WHAT and WHEN and WHERE and COLORS to toss.

olive and gold swimmers ,,Yellow,, pearl white,, Blue silver are good for sunny days.

on cloudy days I will toss Blue and silver, black and gold, black gold silver, black, yellow, and try white with pink stripe but not for long on that one. green and musterd yellow (im out )

At night I toss mostly Bassmaster Needles under the cover of Dark.
I toss plugs that have Hue to them and it does make a differance
But You can Buy from the builders here and the co,s like gibbs and habs. I feel You need them both any way for the type of water You may be working..
If there is a plug or a how You would like to work a body of water, bar hole rip ect or a color of a plug and when, I would Be more than happy to help You.
sorry for the spelling Im not a friggen poet Im a real Time fisherman and Proud of it
P.S. I use to sissy stick and still good for 70'

http://www.striped-bass.com/vbulleti...&threadid=7445

http://www.striped-bass.com/vbulleti...&threadid=7444

[bassmaster]

Originally posted by steelhead
Scoobe, Thanks for the help. I guess next spring I'll get to learn about how plugs are really supposed to swim and how far I can push them before a particular kind of plug's action is ruined. I'm looking forward to that! Can you get a particular plug to run deeper by incrementally adding split shot to the running line in front of the plug without hurting then plug's action?

use a shot of lead core, but if it isnt running deeper move to a plug that will go down


I guess what I'm wondering is whether the same sort of finesse exists with plugs
Yes and more knowledge is needed than in fly fishing, Your limeted in what You can do with a fly rod IMHO

[steelhead]

Bingo on that one!

I look at the two handers that are starting to come out and I just scratch my head!

Your replies are terrific! I;m going to have to print them out and re read them. You're definately right about experience. Ultimately, there's no bookin' or talkin' that can teach the same things that experience can. It's taken me years to learn how to stay in touch with a fly on a dead drift at night with no moon, feel a subtle take. Sometimes it's just a slight change in the tension on the line.

Just think, get to do it all over again!

Do I get the sense that you like needles?

[bassmaster]

Im sure You will do Fine, I really didn't want to get into the element evaluation of working and or finding structure.
Yes I like needles, Its My #1 big fish lure.
when You walk down to the water and in the corner of a bar /hole and see peanuts on the beach and fins and tails.
grab a surfster or a Danny in blue silver or pink white and Pink and work it out side the fining fish, usually large there.
popped a 40lb bass this year doing this on a Danny I made.
its all about know where and what, along with when.
I find a Danny is a good choice at night under a full moon in Yellow, But feel a Pike May top out as being a tad better in June
for that application.
I work those things steady and I may slow it down and snap the rod and make the tail of the pike come up and then start over and just as You move the plug bam!
If You ever seen a herring on top doing the top water thing and then slow down. I emulate that type of Death calling to the plug.
some time I will work a Danny and pop it to make it pop.
This retrieve works some times I keep the rhythm steady and You need to have control on the plug to do it properly.
some fish are ass kissers, I was working a plug in may last year and there was tons of bass around they would come from behind and nip at the tail of the plug, I remedy's this with a precise drop the rod and into the mouth the plug would go. it worked for a few bass.
Guess its all about adapting to the environment as the fish will dictate.
allot of times I have been out and got multiple bumps.
Had a charter and was telling the Guy showing Him how to deal with it.
the fish would bump the lure, I would drop the rod and snap it and most the time I would hook up, Either in the chin side of bass or in the belly

case and point, They learned a new technique

[bloocrab]

I've tried many different approaches with lead-weights...up to & including small sinkers. Depending on the buoyancy of the plug and weight of your lead, it will drastically effect the action of your plug. Remember now, were not just trying to put a piece of plastic/wood down in a deeper water column...we're trying to CATCH fish. Don't sacrifice the catch for the placement. Try these techniques from a dock or pier. Somewhere you can watch what your plug is doing...then ask yourself, "will this fool a fish"?

..here's an example of a very buoyant plug with a lead weight that's too heavy. The plug wants to float so bad, you can't fish it properly. Unless your using a very fast retrieve, this plug will not swim well.

Just my .02 from my experience

[steelhead]

Oaky, I'll bite. What's a sissy stick?

[steelhead]

Bloocrab, That's what I was trying to visualize. Good suggestion walking a dock with a the plug in the water. If it doesn't swim right, what's the point.

[bassmaster]

You forgot 1 thing wire line and lure plane ok.
maybe a keel sinker back from the lure will get it to swim right and not to forget the the angle on a deep diver and they get fish
think man,s streatch...............

[steelhead]

....really good stuff! I love it!!!

[blackeye]

Originally posted by steelhead
Oaky, I'll bite. What's a sissy stick?

it's kinda like a fairy wand

[Skitterpop]

Thanks BM



I`m printing these for a binder to keep inda fish machine for future reference.


Thank you~

[Flaptail]

My Gawd Bassmaster! Are you on Sodium Pentathol? I think you spewed about 20 years worth of know how here.

[Skitterpop]

Flaptail~~~~~~~ you should do a story on BM and his methods and techniques which I know you are familiar with already.... you two have TONS of experience much of it shared / experienced together.

OTW special article ........... or would that bring more notes on your windshield....hope not.

Happy Holidays,
Mike

[justplugit]

There is no superlative to describe the knowledge an talent of THE BASSMASTER!!!


The only thing that can be said, -All bass Fear and Bow to-------"THE BASSMEISTER"

[bloocrab]

Originally posted by bassmaster
You forgot 1 thing ... not to forget the the angle on a deep diver ....

...deep divers are made for boats..once they reach their targeted depth, they kinda plane out...thus the reason for the extended lip of course. .. using the smaller lipped plugs w/weights,, the retreive must remain constant and strong for the lip to overcome the challenge...I don't think you can really compare boat trolling, whether using downriggers or big lipped plugs to this scenario,,, but what do I know.............ever try using a deep diver from shore ? ...yeah me too, all I caught was weeds IF I got it back at all.

I've tried many applications and find that the braid will reduce the angle because of the non-stretch cutting faster through the water...but your much more experienced than I am blood,,,keep the great info coming...

[bassmaster]

bloo, Ya can swap out hooks to get the plug to dive a little deep and can use a shot of lead core like i said.
Me I wouldnt waste my time tossing a manns in black and whit off a dock in falmouth in nov to catch fish on the bottom But rather a bucktail.
never made it a habit to carolina rig a swimmer just went to some thing else. I have seen clips of the deep divers on tv and they still have that diaginal look to them

[Gooch]

WOW! Thanks BM, great stuff.

[bloocrab]

...I wouldnt waste my time ...

...isn't fishing a waste of time anyways??..never mind trying different techniques.............I'm sticking to the corn in the can, that always catches sumtin'

[bassmaster]

I hearYa Bloo. to each there own and if it puts fish on the dock go 4 it
I did some off the wall stuff when I was Young, like drop a lantern over the side at pemberton and catch squid and alwifes and live line the alwife only to see bass wanting the squid on the bottom while still alive

[bloocrab]

drop a lantern over the side at pemberton and catch squid

...nothing "off the wall" about that. I'm sure Clamma remembers the days when that was the preferred method for landing lArge bAss and sQueteague at a certain pIer on the other side of the iSland.


...for you newbies, string beans out-catch corn because they're more bait-like-shaped...