question for somebody up on the law

[mrmacey]

you get a speeding ticket 44 in a 25 appeal it the officer that wrote the ticket is not there Hmmm I won this, Wrong the Chief of police stood up the chief of police is there reading the ticket I said objection LOL! pissed em off, I need the issuances officer here they said hes not obligated to be here but sir I need to ask him questions you cant answer the clerk jumps in I find you guilty but Ill reduce the ticket to $100.00 or you can pay $20.00 for an appeal and if you appeal it Ill take back my reduction and you might pay the $190.00 oh! oh! Im scared dont blackmail me isnt that against the law give me my appeal date heres your $20.00 and this is a list of information I will need about 20 things about there radar gun, calibration, certificates the works his training. Ill pay the $190.00 but Im gonna get my day in court I got nothing else to do. my question here is when did they change the law that an officer need not be there.

[spence]

The issuing officer doesn't need to be present as the ticket is sufficient evidence to make a conviction...

I'd just bend over and take it unless you are really in the right.

-spence

[mrmacey]

sign in the woods,hill, 30 ft to slow down which is a danger to whoevers behinde me the whole road is 35 until this little hill

[mrmacey]

see the nose of the car this is where he parked, see that sign on the left 25 mile an hour he gave me 30 feet to slow down plus with all that brush trees can radar be no doubt effective

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally posted by mrmacey
sign in the woods,hill, 30 ft to slow down which is a danger to whoevers behinde me the whole road is 35 until this little hill

I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate here....But weren't you doing 44 in a 35 then.

I'd take the reduced ticket price of a $100

I know it sucks because I have no room to talk because I always go 10 miles above the speed limit....But I think your fighting a losing battle here.

[Hooper]

That is standard for motor vehicle infractions now in Massachusetts.

I work as a local officer and I rarely, if ever go to court on any citations that I write. I do have to write a detailed narrative which accompanies any citation (or criminal offense, obviously) for the specific reason that it probably will end up being appealed.

Our department, like most, has a court liason officer who represents tha agency which wrote the citation. You have an opportunity, as you are aware, to present your side to the magistrate, and the court liason officer usually reads the officer's narrative to the magistrate.

As you already know, you can appeal the citation to a judge if you are found responsible which the issuing officer will then be required to attend. If he fails to show, you win the appeal. If he shows, you can then have the opportunity to ask questions of the officer, about training, certifications, equipment, whatever you wish. The judge then makes his ruling on that information. His options are as wide ranging as the magistrates, full fine, reduced fine, or not responsible.

I am about 50-50 when summonsed in front of the judge. I always tell friends to request a hearing in front of a magistrate! It cannot hurt you. In fact, my father is a motor coach operator and was cited in Lee, Mass recently for an equipment violation. We drove there from Boston, after first driving to Boston from Cape Cod to meet up with the old man! It was worth it, dismissed on all counts.

And before some of you chime in, I had nothing to do with the charges being dismissed. I went for support. In almost 50 years of driving, 12 professionally, this was his first citation and he was really upset about it. And with the outrageous surcharges the insurance companies hit you with for 7 years, anyone who pays a fine is being screwed. Which I why I assess money fines in only the worst and most dangerous of all motor vehicle infractions that I witness....

Hope that helps Mike, I say appeal to the judge and be respectful to all involved and you will probably do OK.

-Hooper

[mrmacey]

radar is ineffective because of so many interferences they cant go on that alone I was working driving, Im a step 9 driver i dont go speeding around why wasnt I issued a warning I cant afford this my insurance will skyrocket for 7 years thanks for the info i felt like I was being blackmailed in there to pay $100.00 I know budgets are tight but putting a 25 mph sign on a hill is to me putting a community toll booth.

[Hooper]

Step 9, that's worth a lot. Don't lose that....

I would be in front of the judge it I were you. Good luck, and be sure to let us know how you make out.

-Hooper

[mrmacey]

this should be in the grumpy forum Im just venting lol I have another hearing the 29th I felt like I had no chance of explaining anything i tried to show the clerk the pics he just didnt care.

[spence]

I believe there are also laws about what determines reasonable safe speeds for various types of areas. For instance, even if a residential zone doesn't have a posted speed limit, there is an implied limit which if broken can justify a ticket.

-spence

[mrmacey]

Im arguing the fact that radar cant go through hills , he gave me 30ft to slow down from 35 to 25 his radar says 44 could there be a 9 mile an hour difference can something else cause that when I was written up heres what was in front of me

[Hooper]

We have to visually verify what Radar is indicating, for example, my radar says 57, but my eyes show me 35. I would be an idiot to write 57 on a citation. That's why on the ticket both boxes should be checked, Estimated and Radar.

Also, were you given an opportunity to sign the citation? You'll note on the bottom of the ticket it gives a spot to verify receipt of the ticket. I have been told that can be used in an appeal situation....

[FishermanTim]

What would you consider a persons odds are if they were involved in a minor incident and received a surcharge notice regarding this incident. I don't believe I am at fault (they say I was found to be more than 50% at fault). I want to appeal since, as I stated, I don't believe I was at fault.
Any hope (It's an I said, he said scenario)?

[mrmacey]

50 / 50 shot

[Hooper]

Appeal, appeal, appeal!

You will pay a small fortune if you get hammered with those surcharges. The ticket, if there was one, is only the tip of the iceberg my friend! Go to the hearing for the surcharges and bring pics if you have them and witnesses too.

It is too expensive to live in Mass these days, nevermind getting whacked with higher insurance premiums!!!

-Hooper

[Fish On]

Mr Macey,

I've appealed several and won more than a few. I've won on the first hearing because they did not have a copy of the citation (twice). I've won on appeal because the officer did not show up. This by the way is your best chance. Anything, sickness, vacation, a bigger case, etc. can cause the officer not to show up so I would always appeal if the cost of going to court is not high. They often do not show up. I've won because the light change was tripped by a car pulling up and this one did not trip so I went through anyway. Cop said "yeah that's possible"...."not responsible".

On the radar, do your research before you head in. High tension wires can affect the readings. Not sure how much current is flowing through the ones in your photo but they are very close. The big high tension lines don't have to be all that close to cause issues I hear, again research. Also, were there any other cars behind you or in the scope of the gun? If yes, get the office to admit there was then bring up the fact that they can affect radar. Calibration and training are key points, but they should actually be prepared with this info. I would not forwarn them of the questions you intend to ask. It is their responsibility to have the answers. How long between your citation and the court date? If more than a few months look for precedence for the denial of a speedy trial. That will get you off right away and should be your first motion to dismiss if applicable.

Look for any errors on the ticket. They can be cause for dismissal.

When you question the officer start with general questions about the incident to establish his ability to recall the facts. His notes are valid but if the facts for his rebutal are not in his notes you have him. This will lend credibility to claims you make later that he may rebut. You will remember them well because you don't get many tickets. He writes dozens every day and will likely not be able to recall the details. "well officer, if you can't remember whether or not there were any passengers in my vehicle, how can we count on your ability to recall any facts associated with this incident". Case dismissed!

Precendence is a huge plus on any motion to dismiss. If you can back up your motion with a previously dismissed case then you will win right there.

Can't say enough about politeness, preparation and presentation. These will win you huge points with the judge and establish high credibility from the get go. Very improtant.

I wouldn't try the "not enough room to slow down excuse". I think you're much better off without admiting that you were actually speeding.

Good luck!

[Raven]

you said " he only gave me 30 feet to slow down..."which means you were not observing the speed limit prior to that....

so it would be better to access fuel economy info and vehicle load prior to climbing the hill.... as in ... its justified to excelerate faster than the posted speed limit to pass another motor vehicle in a passing zone and then your required to reduce your speed back to the posted limit....so its also required to accelerate just before a hill to climb it at a constant speed..... maybe thats a better approach for your defense...

also its generally a "your call situation" judging traffic ,visability, road conditions, rural or densely populated area considerations
as to how you judged your choice of mph for safety reasons.

[mrmacey]

DISMISSED you all would have been proud of the way I handled this I followed through ask the officer alot of technical questions he couldnt answer I asked what does TA stand for on my plate, what kind of car was I in dont know, the pics of the power lines thanks fish on first time I ever went to court and WON

[The Dad Fisherman]

Awesome....Nice to hear the good guys win

[Carl]

Glad to hear it Mike!!!!!!!!

[jugstah]

Party on, MrMacey.

[Raven]

GREAT WORK mr macey good for you .....i'm very proud of you man. i am PARTYING all the time jugstah so i'll party for mike since he likes to maintain a more sober mindset.

[Fish On]

Congratulations Mr. Macey!

[Bob Thomas]

I can't believe I didn't see this topic earlier

I too am a local cop. I've been summonsed to approximately 13 "Justice Hearings" and have lost only one. I've seen many more cases than that, though. You'd be suprised at how many cases get tossed for no reason. By no reason, I mean the officer gave his story the offender gave theirs and no questions were asked. Not Responsible!! It's funny at times! Even at the loss of the one ticket, I still win, per se. I got 3 hours OT outta 'da deal!!

The best possible advice I give anyone going to any hearing, magistrate or justice is be polite, concise and do not over question the officer. You gotta remember, and I heard this from a magistrate himself, the judge has other things, cases, golf to attend to that day. The last thing they want is a long, drawn out q & a period for a ticket. You'll see most officers, at least at our courthouse, not asking any questions. I've only asked one set of questions at my hearings and that had to do with a Junior Operator Violation. THe kids lawyer thought he was fighting a speeding ticket. I didn't even cite him for speeding. Guess he shoulda found a better lawyer!

[Bob Thomas]

Oh yeah...one more thing....funny story!

Had one kid literally ask me, in a FULL HOUSE courtroom, "Do you have a quota on how many tickets you need to write?"

My answer, as I couldn't resist, "No....I can write as many as I want."

Then he asked, "Your radar gun, was that type 'MPH'"

"No Sir."

"Then what does MPH stand for next to my speed?"

"Ahh, Miles Per Hour"

Courtroom was in tears laughing at this poor kid.

Moral to the story, leave the dumb questions at home and do research!

[TheSpecialist]

I had one a few weeks ago. I got the ticket on Ferry st in Marshfield. I went down to Plymouth Court, and sat with the Magistrate for all of 2 minutes. First question was "Where did you get the ticket?" When the other guy said "Ferry st in Marshfield", the magistrate shook his head like what were they thinking setting up a speeding trap there. He asked me if I had ever been down there before, I replied that it was my first time, and I was following some directions to a friends rental house. He asked why I was going there, I replied that I was doing my friend a favor, carting over a washing machine to replace the one that went on his tenant. He said ok ticket is gone have a nice day. I said thanks, and went fishing with the rest of my day off.

[Hooper]

If the cops aren't the good guys, who is????!!!!!!

[Bob Thomas]

Originally posted by Hooper
If the cops aren't the good guys, who is????!!!!!!

Hooper....Firemen!! That's what I was told a few years ago. "They save people and property.........you give tickets"

What a crazy world we live in, huh

[Hooper]

"We fight fires, not people"

At least the paycheck shows up each Friday!

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally posted by Hooper
If the cops aren't the good guys, who is????!!!!!!

Wise-ass (said in a joking manner) You know what I mean...The system.

I have a deep respect for police officers. I know in my job description there is no mention about being fired on.

and as Far as Firemen go God Bless Them. Pretty much every situation they go on could be a potential Life or Death one.


The Firemans Prayer


When I am called to duty, God...
Where ever flames may rage...
Give me the strength to save some life...
Whatever be its age...
Help me embrace a little child...
Before it is to late...
Or save an older person from...
The horror of that fate...
Enable me to be alert...
And hear the weakest shout...
And quickly and efficiently to put the fire out...
I want to fill my calling and...
To give the best in me...
To guard my every neighbor and protect his property...
And if according to your will...
I have to give my life...
Please bless with your protecting hand...
MY CHILDREN AND MY WIFE.