Are the BASS Declining

[JHABS]

Do you think the BASS are on a downward spiral.Many I talk to say they have not seen it like this in years..............It's been very slow out there and where you use to catch FISH there is nothing.Something has to be done........................My .02 Is I THINK THEY ARE IN THE SH*T**R..................

[Diamond Tackle]

"........................My .02 Is I THINK THEY ARE IN THE SH*T**R........"

Close, they are all going to "slide" along the NJ coast this year. .

[capesams]

Their still there...1-3 miles off the beaches chasing larger bait.

comm. season only last 4 weeks...in mass...a record short fishing period.....those guy's say there's more fish now then ever.

[kippy]

time to buy a boat..

[fishweewee]

[JHABS]

Just heard about it on channel 10 news................I still say there's not the BASS they say are OUT there.....

[afterhours]

the boat guys i know are catching more than than the shore guys that i know, both say their fishing is down from last couple of years.

[B-assman]

Funny how things change - Do you guys recall the talk this spring of how this (then coming) season would produce some of the largest bass in years, how this season there would be more 50lb+ fish caught than ever before.... how the fish benefitting from conservation efforts of years past would now be mature and we're in for a "record" season.... I guess it illustrates that despite our best guesses - there is no way to really know for sure what is going on in the fishery.

[Crafty Angler]

I dunno, Habs

This year has been off the mark for me and I can't say I haven't been putting in my time or changing spots and tactics a lot to try to get a handle on it....

The scuttlebutt around here says it's off for bass - whether that means a decline or not is a little tough to say. Climatologically, it was a tough year, bait ran late, unfavorable winds, etc, etc, etc -

Lots of blooofish and fewer bass anyway - and if it really does run true that one succeeds while the other is in decline....it makes ya think. I can't remember seeing both species in great abundance at the same time, IMHO - beats the poop outta me, for now I guess I gotta say I don't think so. But there's other factors too - like a higher recreational catch that's gotta impact the biomass. Yeah, I know, I don't wanna troll anyone on the Recs vs. Comms issue - but it's something to consider.

Who knows - if striped bass are on the wane maybe you'll need a license to be allowed to carry a Hab's on your person

Seriously, I think there's a lot of factors that are keeping them out of their usual haunts SO FAR....but forage availability has to be first and foremost.

The real culprits may ultimately be the reduction boats targeting pogies - and NO, I don't mean little guys like Ark, I mean Omega Protein. Check it out on Google sometime.

Screw the whales - save the pogies!

[Clammer]

Fishin sucks,,

if you don,t think the netters in Virginia,N/C are doing big time damage ///////////

when we had the band on Stripers //because there weren,t any///// I was catching at least 10 times more bass


without doubt ===this is the worse year I can remember//////////

BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS this @#$%@#$@#$#$%

[Krispy]

I still say there's not the BASS they say are OUT there.....

You have to fish to find out

[piemma]

I posted the same question last Fall on a different web site. I posted it because we were catching nothing but big fish. I was worried that I was not seeing schoolies. I was literally told I was full of s%*# by Mr Expert, Frankie D.

I believe that there is a decline from the last 2 years but I also think the pattern is different this year...at least in So. RI. We have not seen the Peanut Bunker like the years past. We had one run of Peanuts about a month ago on the So. RI Coast and we caught a ton of fish in 4 nights. All quality fish with just a sprinkling of Schoolies mixed in.
I fish almost every night I am not traveling on business. I live in Northern RI and drive 100+ miles, round trip. I have had a lot more fishless nights than in the last 2 years combined. The guys I know and TRUST are saying the same thing. There are 3 of us who have about 100 years combined chasing Stripers and none of us are having a good year.

The upside is that we did find fish this weekend at 2 different places. They moved a considerable distance each night so we fanned out and hunted.

I think that the bait situation is key. We have heard that there are BIG fish being taken at Washburn Wire, way up the river in East Providence, where the baby herring are dumping out of Omega Pond. If that's the case, then it's more a question of bait location than fish abundance.

We will all know in about a month because if the Big Girls don't come knockin' by then, well......

[hq2]

I definitely think the shore fishing is way down this year. I've seen
it everywhere; Plum Island, Hull Gut, the Piscataqua, Crane Beach,
Gloucester, Falmouth in the spring, you name it. It's not that I
haven't caught anything, but it's been very slow, and it's been
that way for everyone else I've seen too. I think the numbers may
be declining again. I think they should reduce the number of
keepers from two to one a day; that way, at least the shore
guys will have a chance to catch something.

[Nebe]

Goosefish and I did pretty well this year.. I just think you really need to follow the migrationary patterns of the bass and know where the bait will be.
looking back at my logs, i know that there will be bass at ......... starting this week... too bad i cant fish

[RIROCKHOUND]

Well...
In my opinion and talking to the handful of people I trade reports with this year has been down for numbers...
My hours fished/fish caught is down astronomically from last year, a year where I didnt fish a ton, but caught alot of nice healthy 15-25lb fish, no monsters but few rats (save for a two week stretch at a certain breachway where it was 27" fish every drop)

This year there has been a paucity of bait where I fish; most if not all fish I have cleaned this year have been empty or had lobster or crabs in them... never a great sign...

Working in and around Newport Hbr 3-5 days/nights a week this year this year I had been seeing numerous schools of blues working baby pogies, but.. where are the tinker mac's that come every august?? where are the silversides so thick you couls snag em?

At our dock I could cast net baby pogies, snappers and silversides every day last year and before., this year... where are they? Up the bay? I hope so, we need them... I jigged up a few blues (and a 34" bass ) from a deep hole (110ft) in Narragansett Bay.... This is my favorite light tackle sport, bluefish on 6lb in 110ft, but.... these fish have been lean and mean... long skinny 10lb fish with nada in their belly...

I'm optimistic that it will turn on this year... my worry is that it will be a rapid and ferocious feed if the fish find the bait... I hope I'm there for it and dont hear about it..

As Eben said a few people have done well, but.. I think that was a case of finding a pod of fish working a certain shoreline with a very specific technique... and the size was good, but numbers were'nt great...

As a scientist (not a biologist!!!!) I am looking at all this as hearsay and coicidence for now.. as the so called Mr. Smarty would say "junk science" Hopefully this new data from scientists is armwaving, but time will tell...

As a fisherman I think it has been a seriously screwed up year and hope the bait isnt in on the shoreline because of the persistant high surf, and as a result hope that as this lays down we will have a great end of Sept - Thanksgiving!!!

tight lines..

Bryan

[bassmaster]

for the past 3 years the surf has not been what it should be and all these seals need to be shot in the head
Habs check your pms boy...............
and thanks

[ThrowingTimber]

Fishing would be much better if they stopped effing with the bait fish

[tynan19]

I have noticed less bait. Less bait = less fish.

[JHABS]

I am not the EXPERT,And there does seem to be more bigger fish CAUGHT the LAST 2 YEARS, but that class fish is here from what the EXPERTS TELL ME. Where are all the little ones Going back a few years you would catch many school BASS every where that is not the case now. Im not saying theres no FISH Just something is off. Everyone is complaining the Commercial guys, Charter guys, Surf guys, Even THE SHARPIES.They all can't be in deep water waiting to come in. What came by came by ,No more are coming. Lets hope they come by on the return trip. We all can have GOOD days but Most everyone is doing less. A guy who goes out 2 days and catches fish is going to say he had a good year. What about the guy who goes out 3 to 6 nights a week most are doing LESS............ Yes there is some Quality out there but not the Quantity..........Just Think its TIME to THINK just my .02

[piemma]

Bryan:
Well said and a great post.

[piemma]

John:
You lead the parade and we will follow. Perhaps it's time to go back to the one fish a day 34" limit...everywhere not just RI.

This is the classic example of closing the barn door after the horse is stolen. I saw hundreds...literally hundreds of 15 to 20# fish killed last year at Carpenters and Deep Hole in a 2 or 3 day period. The guys were doing a number and there were scant few of us practicing catch and release. No one needs more than one 20# fish a day.

[Karl F]

some interesting thoughts here, but, the one thing I overheard John R say at plug night, rings true... "Fix the bait."

Lots of stuff running off the shoreline into the estuaries now, here on the cape, anyways, what with all the new large trophy house with their acres of pristine well fertilized and watered lawns and gardens, new roads= new runoff. Guys I know in the clammin and aquaculture end really have seen the problem firsthand from all the new nitrogen runoff. These guys are literally knee deep in the water all day. My neighbor who has a huge grant, he says the decline of bait fish in Pleasant bay the last 3 years is extremely alarming. That, plus the dramatic increase of weed, that nitrogen must feed it . He says he sees more cleared shorefront, and more new plywood every week, so, it won't get any better, here, I'm afraid.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Karl,
One of the biggest problems facing our salt ponds and estuaries (our's being everyone not So.Co and Rhody) is Nitrogen, and to a much lesser degree probably Phosforous as well... Greenwich Bay fish kill last year... Lack of eel grass or less than in the past in the ponds/N Bay as a whole...
Likely all related to an increase in Nitrogen...

Run off is a major concern, more impervious surfaces (parking lots, driveways, roads etc) increases run off, thats common sense. Less obvious to most people is the contamination from Sewers. With increased development there is increased pressure on the ecosystem.... Go look in the ground around here, below the soils is generally sandy and or gravelly (deposits courtesy of the glaciers retreating) when you put a lot of septic systems in this sediment... woosh.. it is into the ground water and out into the saltponds/estuaries... and not just septic systems; go look at the green grass of the golf courses in Winnapaug, or on Pleasant Bay for that matter... lots of N coming in from fertilizer...

You're right, fix the bait fix the fish... but on a bigger scale, fix the ecosystem, and help fix the fish.....

As the green people say; think globally act locally... this is very true.....

Now enough waxing poetic; back to work!!!

[KLMulder]

The factors that affect the fish are staggering. Com fishing, rec fishing pollutants in the water etc etc. They all have an effect on the population, health etc etc. IMHO the fish traps should be outlawed. I am not ranting about the Com gut's they need to make a living just like you and me so please don't take it that way. There needs to be smaller limits set on forage fish. They have been hit so hard for so long that EVERY predator fish out there is having a harder time finding food. Bycatch is a real problem but personally I don't think there is a way to control it, its not the com guy's fault if a striper ends up in his net, they cant avoid it. There needs to be strict enforcement of the law's for both the Com and Rec fishermen. This is hard to do with limited funding for the DEM, they have only so many people to patrol. Personally I think the rec fishermen are the worst offender's when it come to this. We all know trash is a problem as well as property destruction, this is hard to enforce due to the fact that they have to be caught in the act. Over limit and short fish are a little easier because the evidence is right there for all the world to see. Give them a fine every time, no warnings hammer them and do it hard. This is the only way to stop it, explaining the law in a rational manner to an A$$ will not work. I have seen people get caught and let off with a warning and what do they do? They say what an A$$ the EP was and go right back to it. Here is your fine, here is your summons to court, put you gear in the truck if you want it back you can have it after you court date. thank you have a good night. This is the only case I would ever support a lic in, first all the money MUST go to the DEM, second I your caught you lose your lic and will be arrested on the spot if you are caught fishing again. As far as pollution goes, well the EPA MUST come down hard. Make the fines hurt not feel like a flea bite plain and simple. Individuals are just as bad as corporations with the stuff they will dump into the ground, storm drain and god knows where else...

Well I would rant more but I do have work to do so I'll put the soap box back where I found it.

KL

[MikeTLive]

We know that many fish have cannibalistic tendencys.

Since the bait is in low supply, they could be going after the juveniles.

Also, the proliferation of dogfish, could they too be impacting these fish?

The blues... are they, also, going after them?

It is a complex food web.
Can anyone point to some scientific study of the connections between the various species and their food/predators?

[JHABS]

All good points and all are problems which are not helping, I still THINK the BASS is being OVER FISHED...................If this FISH goes like back in the 80's SAY GOOD BYE................

[Nebe]

Originally posted by KLMulder
As far as pollution goes, well the EPA MUST come down hard. Make the fines hurt not feel like a flea bite plain and simple. Individuals are just as bad as corporations with the stuff they will dump into the ground, storm drain and god knows where else...

the epa is a joke right now... as soon as bush was elected he apointed several people to the top of the EPA that were lobiests for the companies that were the largest polluters... talk about wolves in the henhouse...heres an article about it....

(sorry to bring politcs to this thread)

Dont forget guys we had an extremely harsh winter and a very mild summer... things just could be out of whack.

[piemma]

We struggled thru the 80's with few, if any, bass. As the fish started to recover the minimum went to 36" one a day (anyone remember 36") then 34" one a day. Then, as I recall, RI went 28" one a day and MASS stayed at 34".
The point of this rambling is there should be ONE size and ONE limit for the species not by state. The absolutely worse offender is VA where they net the hell out of the brood stock in December and Janurary. I have seen the pictures and read the reports of thousands of 30 and 40 and 50 pound fish piled high on the beach.
Watch, tonight someone will hammer fish in South County and all will be right with the world of Bass. It's a much bigger picture.

[piemma]

Striped bass hit a snag in recovery
Fish's numbers grew under catch limits but are falling again

Associated Press
First published: Monday, September 13, 2004

Biologists are trying to find out why the survival rate of striped bass, whose numbers rebounded under strict catch limits in the Chesapeake Bay, appears to be falling.
"There's an increased concern by fisheries managers that we could be looking at some future crash" of the striped bass population, said Wolfgang Vogelbein, a scientist at the Virginia Institute of Marine Science.

Pollution, disease or starvation could be at fault, biologists say. Some scientists also are beginning to ask whether the recreational-catch limits and commercial-harvest quotas, which helped the striped bass recovery, are too restrictive.

"We've got a rare case of a species coming back to high abundance and are now seeing things that may be problems caused by this high abundance," said Desmond Kahn, a biologist with the Delaware Division of Fish and Wildlife.

If the trend continues, the decline would be the first threat striped bass have faced since the 1980s, when overfishing whittled down their numbers to such a point that the federal government banned fishing for the species from North Carolina to Maine.

The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, composed of Virginia, New York and 13 other Atlantic states, engineered the moratorium. It earned accolades from conservationists worldwide when the striped bass population rebounded to record highs.

The Atlantic commission declared the striped bass "fully recovered" in 1995.

Striped bass now support a multimillion-dollar sports fishing industry in Virginia and are regularly pursued by commercial netters. The state controls the sport and commercial harvests through catch quotas.

About 75 percent of the coastal striped bass population is spawned in the bay. Most of the fish live there for several years until they mature. They then join the adult population that generally migrates offshore from North Carolina to Maine's coastal rivers, returning to the bay each year to spawn.

Copyright 2004 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[JohnR]

Piemma - one size fits all really won't work - some of the states have inshore limits that allow the taking of smaller fish in greater numbers. One of the advantages of this is that those smaller fish have much higher numbers of males than females. A few resources have stated that somewhere around 1% of 20# fish are in fact males so mixing up the catch, coast wide, is a good thing. Now I fully feel that there should be a reduction in all the size classess, rec & comm, but this will have little positive effect if the forage fish are all gone. We have depletion in river herring, sea herring, mullet, mackeral, and most important, menhaden. These fish are under nourished due to their numbers and the further depletion of bait.

If the overall numbers do show a drop, Ammendment 6 will execute predefined triggers to reduce the overall harvest to prevent another collaspe. But we need more bait.

The annual Year of Young surveys point to good to excellent spawning in the key areas like the upper Chesapeke so part of the equation is fixed yet these fish are staying hungry due to lack of bait. On the otherhand a couple years ago some people (not me :shrug: ) were complaining about the lack of bluefish....

Did I mention we need more protection on the bait??