How Bout' That Clemens? - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

BigFish · 11-12-2004, 03:51 PM

Love him or hate him....the guy is one of the best all-time! 7 career Cy Young awards? Are you kidding me?

Won 1 with all 4 teams he has been with?

Wow! I always thought Clemens was one of the best ever and now he has set himself apart......did you know Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young award?

Never! Just a curious fact that I still can't believe, because I think Ryan was the best pitcher there ever was.....considering all of the also-rans he has played with and the numbers he put up anyway! But no Cy for Ryan....I thought he got robbed in 1973 when they gave it to Jim Palmer.....Ryan had 2 no-no's, struck out a record 383 batters and won I think 21 games......on a crappy team!

Clemens deserves all the accolades he gets! He is and always has been one hell of a pitcher!

afterhours · 11-12-2004, 04:06 PM

one of the best ever. i rate him only behind cy young(500+ wins) and nolan ryan. hats off to him!

Raider Ronnie · 11-12-2004, 06:49 PM

Not too bad for a guy that the Sox GM at the time said he was washed up.
Good Call Dan!!!

Squid kids Dad · 11-12-2004, 08:10 PM

I would carry Rogers luggage any time...

BigFish · 11-13-2004, 02:18 PM

Yeah Ron...how bout' that Duquette!

I think he is GM of the gumball machine outside of Stop and Shop in Quincy!

Mike P · 11-13-2004, 02:35 PM

We had Trader Dan's son Jim as the GM of the Mets for two years, too.

At least this is the last year we'll be paying Mo not to play

Roger is probably the best of the last 30 years. But no one, ever, was as good as Koufax from 1962 to 1966. The Dodgers won 3 pennants and two Series in that run, while not scoring a hell of a lot of runs. If today's medical techniques were available to him then, he might have averaged 24-3 and a 1.88 ERA for another 5 or 6 years. Nolan had nights when he got lit up. Koufax was the only guy I ever saw who you thought could throw a no-no any time he took the mound

BigFish · 11-13-2004, 02:47 PM

I never saw him play MikeP but I know my baseball....I must agree with you about Koufax!

Once his fastball found the strikezone, he was the most dominant pitcher for any 4 year period ever! Retired after the 1966 season at 30 years of age due to arthritic elbow.....final season I think he was 27-6!

Yeah, ya believe that? Had an arguement with a guy a couple weeks ago about who is in the hall and who isn't, and this guy was using Koufax as an example of a dominant period in a pitchers career and saying that Pedro was as dominant during a 4 year period and all I could do was laugh at his reasoning....cause Pedro could not carry Koufax jock! There is absolutely no comparing Pedro with Koufax because Koufax was head, shoulders, elbows and balls above Pedro as a pitcher! Sure wish I got to see Koufax pitch boy....what a treat that must have been!

Mike P · 11-13-2004, 04:11 PM

The really amazing thing is that Koufax only had two pitches. A 97 mph fastball and an 88 mph curve. No change-up, no slider. He used the same delivery for both. The batters used to say they knew when a curve was coming because they could hear the spin--sounded like a helicopter rotor.

Didn't help them hit it---it'd start out at their eyes and break right over the heart of the plate. The Dodgers used to be on NBC's Game of the Week a lot when I was a kid, and it was really something to watch the guy make a monkey out of some of the best hitters in the NL.

Larry, you have to pick up a copy of the book about Koufax called A Lefty's Legacy, by Jane Leavy. Great read, and great insight into the guy. He was also a high school basketball star who dunked a ball over Harry Gallatin, who was the starting center for the Knicks at the time, during an exhibition game.

Still, one of the most dominating performances by a pitcher I ever saw was by Tom Seaver, in an All Star game back in the early 70s. He struck out 7 of the 9 batters he faced, averaging about 11 pitches an inning. If he could have stayed in beyond the All Star limit of 3 innings for a pitcher, I'm certain he would have thrown a perfect game. His stuff was that good that day.

BigFish · 11-13-2004, 04:58 PM

Think I read someplace where Koufax had really large hands (since you mention stuffing a b-ball) and those extra long fingers could wrap right around that ball and help his curve. You know the first 5 or 6 years of his career Koufax was just a guy who threw hard and could not find the plate....but once he did, man what a great pitcher.

28inches · 11-13-2004, 06:31 PM

Koufax is also a man of principle. Missed a Series start due to a religious holiday if memory serves. Mike?

BigFish · 11-13-2004, 06:39 PM

Pretty sure you are right on that score 28.

I think he was breaking bread with Stump Merrill.

28inches · 11-13-2004, 07:03 PM

Stump's a rabbi...I bet you didn't know that.

BigFish · 11-13-2004, 07:32 PM

How do you think I know they broke bread together?

Squid kids Dad · 11-14-2004, 12:14 AM

Did you hear??? Stumps coming to the Sox next year....

Mike P · 11-14-2004, 12:40 AM

Yup. The opening game of the 66 Series fell on Yom Kippur. Koufax himself wasn't religious, but felt that as an example and role model to young Jewish kids, pitching on the holiday would send the wrong message to them. Drysdale pitched instead and got shelled by the Orioles. Koufax pitched game 2 and lost a close one---to Palmer if my memory serves me right. I think the Dodgers got swept.

BigFish · 11-14-2004, 08:35 AM

Yeah, the rookie Jim Palmer cut his big game teeth in that one!