Penn cleans house

[ProfessorM]

My buddy that works for the Penn repair department told me yesterday that the company has fired the President and CEO, the National Service Manager, and the Vice President of Manufacturing. He say's morale is very low. He also said that he doubts that there will ever be a made in America spinning reel made by Penn again. That was the factory that all but closed down a month ago, they made the spinning reel's there. He also said that they are slow but sure making even the replacement parts in China too. Too bad because that was a big selling point for Penn, the made in America tag. Stiff competion requires the use of the cheapest labor I guess. The way he see's it eventually all the manufacturing will be done overseas. Paul

[porcupine]

Every salt water reel I have is a Penn! I consider Penn an American icon just like Harley Davidson, what are they doing?????

[tynan19]

Originally Posted by porcupine

, what are they doing?????

Making money.

[afterhours]

made in usa....a fading logo. china- next industrial superpower, they will shape the globes economy

[beachwalker]

Originally Posted by Professor Moriarty

My buddy that works for the Penn repair department told me yesterday that the company has fired the President and CEO, the National Service Manager, and the Vice President of Manufacturing. He say's morale is very low. He also said that he doubts that there will ever be a made in America spinning reel made by Penn again. That was the factory that all but closed down a month ago, they made the spinning reel's there. He also said that they are slow but sure making even the replacement parts in China too. Too bad because that was a big selling point for Penn, the made in America tag. Stiff competion requires the use of the cheapest labor I guess. The way he see's it eventually all the manufacturing will be done overseas. Paul

bummer. but that is the result of living in a POST- INDUSTRIAL NATION. No such thing as out sourcing.

FREE ENTERPRISE RULES !

[fishdog13]

Every salt water reel I have is a Penn! I consider Penn an American icon just like Harley Davidson, what are they doing?????

[steelhead]

Trying to survive... It's a dog eat dog world out there. Whether we like it or not, China's where it's at til further notice. Sadly, we're gutting our own work force in the process.

[mikecc]

Penn's first problem is they are out of touch with the consumer.
They IMO just placed the nail in the coffin.
Once again they have underestimated the consumer.
In the past when Penn was top of the line reels they refused address the problem issues with their reels. When they did respond it was out of desperation because of lost market share. How many years of the consumer telling them that Penn’s bails flip does it take for them to listen? Well apparently they still do not get it because we are going on 20 years and nothing has been done other than telling the consumer they have the reel handle in the wrong position while casting.
They addressed the issues on the 5500SS and after 3 changes and 15 years they still did not get it right. So they discontinue the reel and come out with a new version called the SSg .
Well lets talk about their newest.
It finally got a infinite Anti-Reverse. All other companies have had it for over 5 years. Even on their cheapest $20 reels! They have not addressed the spool taper. And with every one running braid today they did not even put an oversized line roller on the series of reels. So their newest reel is already outdated.

If Penn would just listen.
For at least 4 years I have committed to a large quaint of reels. I call it the improved 704 /706
Give me this reel with a infinite Anti-Reverse , newer improved Bail spring ,drilled out rotor like a VS, Anodized finish not painted, oversized Line Roller Bearing. Does not have to be sealed .Hell with only 3 moving internal parts a kid could clean it in 5 min.
They could sell this reel in the $200 range
What does Penn do??
They move a problem reel that most guys were on the edge of using to a fixed rediculious price
From $85 to $129. and move its production overseas. Thus guaranteeing it’s extension.

The only way people are going to go back to Penn is if they get the same reel as they have been getting for 10 years and drop the price to $50 in level with all the other imported reels.
There is no reason for the consumer to support Penn now that they have moved their spinning reels overseas.

The steps that should have been taken are .
Clean house starting with the Management and then moving to the design and research and development. Replace them with a new team that will directly listen to the consumer and address the issues with their reels. And most of all remain in the USA

[spence]

Mike, don't hold back...please tell us what you're thinking

As someone who was just shopping for a new reel I couldn't agree more. There are very few options available for the surfcaster, and the one diehard has recently sold it's soul.

-spence

[mikecc]

I would but this is a family board
But then what do I know been only listening the the consumer complain over their reels fro 20 years.

[beachwalker]

mike,

three four years ago penn sends two prototype slammers to Bill Pew (Fishers) out here. I bet you got a couple or more.

Bill gives the medium one to me (which would become the 460) and the smaller one to Captain Tom M. and tells both of us to NEVER rinse and give it back in November.

The friggin thing was the greatest reel I had ever used and worked perfectly all season. I dunked, sanded it, puked on it and it still worked great. It broke my heart to give it back but the season was over.

So the next year I buy the 360, 460 and they are so so. The drag is good, if you maintain it but the components overall work so so.

I wish I had that proto still it was the best reel ever. number 80 hand inked on it....

[mikecc]

20 years of selling penn reels they have never brought in proto types nor asked my opinion of their reels.
The only time I have ever seen the peolpe from penn other that the local rep is when they were having a photo shoot with Atlantic boats. For new at the time international reels. Some one shipped their rods up and they were damaged in shipment.They had me stay late about 4 hours after closing and repair all the rods.

[PurpelNoon]

I remember as a kid(not too long ago) when items were all made in Japan and that was considered cheap/low quality. Things have changed with Japanese products since then. Resume now with China, but a big problem with China is that they do not respect any type of patents. They have hundreds and hundreds of law suits against companies that replicate cars, and other products. Worse yet, is that the Chinese government has done nothing about all of this.

When I have the chance to buy similar products, whether made in USA or another country and China, even if I have to pay more, I will always buy the American or other country's part. China's tactics are a disgrace!

[Nebe]

I have to agree, if Penn made a better version of the 704 or 6 that was priced around 200 or 250 bucks, VS would be in big trouble. annodized, sealed drag... i'd buy one.

[beachwalker]

Originally Posted by mikecc

20 years of selling penn reels they have never brought in proto types nor asked my opinion of their reels.
The only time I have ever seen the peolpe from penn other that the local rep is when they were having a photo shoot with Atlantic boats. For new at the time international reels. Some one shipped their rods up and they were damaged in shipment.They had me stay late about 4 hours after closing and repair all the rods.

then they really do suck.

i came through your shop once a couple of years ago. it was impressive. incredible looking rods, great conversation going on (I must have hit a lucky moment ) everything organized. all the good stuff....

Bill sold out last Fall. He's done. no one picked up his shop. i wish i was more experienced...

this is gonna be the best season ever....

[lurch]

sorry guys but if a quality reel comes from overseas I will buy it. However, if there is a quality reel within the same price range as the overseas reel I will buy the american reel.

i hope Penn is seeing this post from Mikecc!! Let it rip big fella!!!

[rwilhelm]

Is Penn changing the design on the 704Z and 706Z? I went to their website and they have the 706Z weighing at 25.5 ozs and the gear ratio at 4.6. I remember the weight being 21 ozs and I think the gear ratio was 3.7 or 3.8. They have the 704Z listed at 22 ozs, before the 704Z was heavier than the 706Z?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by beachwalker

Bill sold out last Fall. He's done. no one picked up his shop. i wish i was more experienced...

this is gonna be the best season ever....

So who is goign to sell all the honey lamis and Penn reels to the tourists? And will the tourists finally stop flipping the reels over and backwinding when they see some of us with conventionals

Interesting to hear that about Bill. Very nice guy and I wish him luck (though I've often wondered if he has poured too much lead over the years without a mask)...

What does that leave for a decent shop on the island? The gas station?


Penn - they have screwed the pooch. Anyone have any method for them to come on and engage some of their customers? No, I'm not holding my breath

[PurpelNoon]

I noticed the same thing. Maybe if we are lucky they will improve the anti-reverse and limit all that play.

[bcaron]

After a lot of research and shopping around (and around and around) I went with Shimano. Hard to beat the features and quality for the price. And it was on SALE, something I never saw from Penn. I looked long and hard at the Penns, believe me, I wanted one. But I couldn't justify the cost vs. value for my hard earned green. You're right- they did it to themselves. Another example of arrogant management not listening to anybody. I'm sure some of the people at Penn have been trying to tell their bosses for years what the score is. Same problem where I work. I'm beginning to think the problem isn't necessarily Chinese business practices, its poor American leadership in the manufacturing sector.

[PurpelNoon]

I agree with you in that if Penn could just "update" the 704 and 706 to improve things such as the line roller(706) and the significant handle play, I would have no need to buy a VS, Saltiga or any other reel for that matter. But, they choose not to embrace change nor listen to their customers, the anglers. Sure I still use my Penns, but I like the fact that other companies who DO listen to the customer, and they will get my business.

[Swimmer]

As usual MikeCC fills us in on all the pertinent inside guff with a manufacturer. That is one of the things that make this list what it is. Where else after reading and listeneing too our buddies could we go to get this information and make an informed decision? No where. Mike has told us many things about Penn before but today we learn some more.

I sent a Penn 9500 back for premature bail floppage and when I called the factory to check someone in the office wanted to know how much or long I have been fishing. I supposed that is a fair question though in retrospect. The direct cause of all of the manufacturing and replacement parts coming out of China no doubt is managements confusion over how important the consumer and retailer opinon is.

Just remember the NAFTA bill was signed into legislation by Bill, spread the wealth, Clinton, not Goerge %$%$%$%$. NAFTA accelerated the rush to outsource like nothing else ever.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by bcaron

Another example of arrogant management not listening to anybody. I'm sure some of the people at Penn have been trying to tell their bosses for years what the score is. Same problem where I work. I'm beginning to think the problem isn't necessarily Chinese business practices, its poor American leadership in the manufacturing sector.

You hit the nail on the head. Several years ago there was an article in Fine Woodworking where they went to Taiwan and toured factories that made woodworking equipment. US buyers bought the cheapest equipment that was available. Price is not the only thing that counts.

[PurpelNoon]

In today's economy, I can see how things are being made elsewhere, but something that really has to be done is regarding China's government that allows companies to infringe patents. Honda alone has several patent lawsuits against Chinese companies that are literally producing Honda vehicles such as the Civic, with a Honda logo and everything, when in fact they are pure knock-offs. That is scary.

China should at least be made to play by the same rules that other foreign countries do.

[Billybob]

How are you gonna make China play by the same rules when they have a complete different set of priorities?Things like the environment,safety,patents they don't mean squat to a country like China.
Most of these people don't have drinking water, electricity, infrastructure, health care, etc. Do you think they care about patent infringement?
So, you say the U.S. should not import goods from a country like this? We should not be trade partners with a country that doesn't play by the rules, right?
Who's gonna push this? The irony is that the big U.S. manufacturers are the one's migrating to China.Their rushing over there to build their plants and take advantage of the cheap labor market.And, they have the lobby $ behind them to make damn sure the gates stay open.Meanwhile, wall street's loving the ROI, the company's are making money, and the gov't is telling you this is good for the economy.
Wait til it all comes crashing down.

[PurpelNoon]

What you say is true. I'm not saying we shouldn't import anything, I', just saying I wish something would be done about what is going on. Too bad the Chinese govt. is in cohoots with the companies. That really makes it a toughy!

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Billybob

How are you gonna make China play by the same rules when they have a complete different set of priorities?Things like the environment,safety,patents they don't mean squat to a country like China.
Most of these people don't have drinking water, electricity, infrastructure, health care, etc. Do you think they care about patent infringement?
So, you say the U.S. should not import goods from a country like this? We should not be trade partners with a country that doesn't play by the rules, right?
Who's gonna push this? The irony is that the big U.S. manufacturers are the one's migrating to China.Their rushing over there to build their plants and take advantage of the cheap labor market.And, they have the lobby $ behind them to make damn sure the gates stay open.Meanwhile, wall street's loving the ROI, the company's are making money, and the gov't is telling you this is good for the economy.
Wait til it all comes crashing down.

BB - who is going to but the products when we get into the same unemployment situations like in Europe?

[fishweewee]

Van Staal.

[spence]

Simple solution.

End this free-market nonsense as practiced by Buhs and Clinton because it is selling our very foundation in the name of corporate profits.

I really don't think our standard of living will be impacted that dramatically if we can't buy .69 cent potato peelers and 15 dollar DVD players.

There's a balance point there somewhere.

-spence

[Billybob]

John - That's exactly my point. Maybe the corporate big shots don't realize, or maybe they just don't care because this process will take a while. But, the fact is that everytime they migrate an operation to China they are firing their BEST CUSTOMERS.
When Billybob loses his good paying job in the brass mill and gets a job at Walmart, he ain't buying no Plasma TV's - neither is Wonhunglo, who's working at the new brass mill in Xianjang cause he's only making 25 yuan a month!
Walmart's gonna have to layoff Billybob, cause their sales are down.All these wonderful service jobs disappear because there's no manufacturing base to support them.
Unemployment rises as the tax base shrinks and we have a crises on our hands.
The incumbent will get blamed, a new party voted in, but it's too late - the damage is done.
And the CEO retires to Cancun eessed: