Is the old guard losing it?

[eelman]

Are we who have 20 years in the surf or more slipping? is a new breed of hero emerging? Is Eben the new master? Maybe the drive is gone, maybe we cant keep up with these young bucks? does it matter if you fish 7 nights a week? Hmmmmmmmm

Is it possible that stripers now have a preference to plugs over eels?

Is the 9 to 5 every 3 day fisherman onto something?

I say hail to Master Eben, king of the August surf !!

[BigFish]

Yup! There is a new sheriff in town and he slings wood!

[afterhours]

i thought i heard that eben blows

[BigFish]

Only when he is working!

[JohnR]

OK - this really ain't a fishing topic - Flushed to the Scuppers...

[Nebe]

I shine for 2 months- april and august

[Joe]

In Narragansett/South County - the old guard is not too well-represented any longer. The last time I spoke with Andy Lemar he said he noticed a significant drop-off with respect to traditional, hard-core nocturnal surfcasters over the last ten years. This shift has been underway for quite a while.
Dusk and dawn anglers are pretty abundant as are the subsistance fishermen - but thats about it. I thought the price of gas would drive more people to the surf locally, but it has not.
This year has been a real bad one as several local legends have passed away.
Don't be surprised if Eben or somebody else we know well emerges - its not like there are a lot of guys investing time to become good fishermen. 36 pounds from shore could probably place in several clubs 2005 shore contests.

[eelman]

hey joe! steve and I are still hard core! but your right I have said it over and over to steve on the rocks, "where is everyone" we see no one at night! and there are fish! not like it used to be........

[eelman]

Hey john a little picky arent we??? moving the thread?

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Joe

In Narragansett/South County - the old guard is not too well-represented any longer. The last time I spoke with Andy Lemar he said he noticed a significant drop-off with respect to traditional, hard-core nocturnal surfcasters over the last ten years. This shift has been underway for quite a while.
Dusk and dawn anglers are pretty abundant as are the subsistance fishermen - but thats about it. I thought the price of gas would drive more people to the surf locally, but it has not.
This year has been a real bad one as several local legends have passed away.
Don't be surprised if Eben or somebody else we know well emerges - its not like there are a lot of guys investing time to become good fishermen. 36 pounds from shore could probably place in several clubs 2005 shore contests.

1) It ain't over till the fat lady sings.
2) There are still a few of us "hardcore oldtimers" still out almost everynight. We are just quiet about it. In the old days before the internet no one except the "insiders" knew who was taking good fish.
3) Most of us DON'T post our success. You think I want every newbie standing in my bootmarks after I slam the fish?
4) Aside from my partner there's not 3 guys on this board who know all the good spots where I'ver been crawling. Why give up the keys to the kingdom.
AND finally....
5) While I haven't got a 36# bass this year. I have 30 fish over 15 and 5, 20# or better. All from shore. In the last 10 days 2 in the 20s and 6 in the mid-teens. 2 of those in the last 24 hours.You see any pictures or posts about my fish? NO.
You see the oldtimes like to stay low profile. It doesn't do us any good to advertise our success.

[spence]

I think the future of surfcasting is in designer plugs and color coordinating breathable attire.

Think a Van Staal get's a double take? Imagine the unshaved nods at 2am when someone's headlamp flashes the gold Versace "Medusa" badge on your wading belt.

It may not be well known, but the Army Corps of Engineers actually used a well worn Milan catwalk as the basis for most East coast jetty designs.

You wanted the truth #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, I don't think you can handle the truth

-spence

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by spence

I think the future of surfcasting is in designer plugs and color coordinating breathable attire.

Think a Van Staal get's a double take? Imagine the unshaved nods at 2am when someone's headlamp flashes the gold Versace "Medusa" badge on your wading belt.

It may not be well known, but the Army Corps of Engineers actually used a well worn Milan catwalk as the basis for most East coast jetty designs.

You wanted the truth #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, I don't think you can handle the truth

-spence

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by piemma

3) Most of us DON'T post our success. You think I want every newbie standing in my bootmarks after I slam the fish?

5) While I haven't got a 36# bass this year. I have 30 fish over 15 and 5, 20# or better. All from shore. In the last 10 days 2 in the 20s and 6 in the mid-teens. 2 of those in the last 24 hours.You see any pictures or posts about my fish? NO.
You see the oldtimes like to stay low profile. It doesn't do us any good to advertise our success.

Amen Piemma.

While I am not an old-timer, I agree with everything you said. The less guys out at night, and less Internet report/spot postings bringing out more guys at night, is better for the guys that do go out at night.

The Internet is great for equipment talk, fishing tactics talk, "how to fish" talk, etc., but it is not a place to brag & potentially overcrowd spots.

Call me whatever you want, That is my opinion.

[outfished]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Amen Piemma.

While I am not an old-timer, I agree with everything you said. The less guys out at night, and less Internet report/spot postings bringing out more guys at night, is better for the guys that do go out at night.

The Internet is great for equipment talk, fishing tactics talk, "how to fish" talk, etc., but it is not a place to brag & potentially overcrowd spots.

Call me whatever you want, That is my opinion.

I'll second that

[piemma]

Thanks for all the agreement guys. It just makes sense to me.

[eelman]

Originally Posted by spence

I think the future of surfcasting is in designer plugs and color coordinating breathable attire.

Think a Van Staal get's a double take? Imagine the unshaved nods at 2am when someone's headlamp flashes the gold Versace "Medusa" badge on your wading belt.

It may not be well known, but the Army Corps of Engineers actually used a well worn Milan catwalk as the basis for most East coast jetty designs.

You wanted the truth #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, I don't think you can handle the truth

-spence

A little confused by this post? what truth? I do confess I now wear breathable waders but thats it!

[ThrowingTimber]

Piemma for President! Saw Mr. Lamar out Sunday

[Squibby17]

Originally Posted by piemma

1) It ain't over till the fat lady sings.
2) There are still a few of us "hardcore oldtimers" still out almost everynight. We are just quiet about it. In the old days before the internet no one except the "insiders" knew who was taking good fish.
3) Most of us DON'T post our success. You think I want every newbie standing in my bootmarks after I slam the fish?
4) Aside from my partner there's not 3 guys on this board who know all the good spots where I'ver been crawling. Why give up the keys to the kingdom.
AND finally....
5) While I haven't got a 36# bass this year. I have 30 fish over 15 and 5, 20# or better. All from shore. In the last 10 days 2 in the 20s and 6 in the mid-teens. 2 of those in the last 24 hours.You see any pictures or posts about my fish? NO.
You see the oldtimes like to stay low profile. It doesn't do us any good to advertise our success.

I would say I'm of the new younger crew of fisherman. Do I possess the knowledge and where with all to get fish like you guys do... no. However the surf fisherman is a dying breed. I don't have any close friends who like to surf cast like I do.They may say they like fishing but don't want to walk the beached for hours on end in the middle of the night. At parties and stuff people laugh at me because in many cases I would rather be playing with an eel on a rock instead of getting drunk and hitting on girls. I got into surf fishing from my father who no longer cares to fish, at least not nocturnally.

I may get some back lash for this but here goes.

If you guys don't pass on your knowledge or at least take (nephews, friends sons etc) fishing the sport will diminish. Almost every one I know who fishes got into fishing from father figures etc. Don't deny that as older states men you may have some responsibility to pass on what you love. I can't wait to teach my kids (don't have any yet) to fish when they come of age. I think that would be more rewarding than catching a cow by myself.

[piemma]

I do pass on my knowledge....just not to everyone. My partner is 26. I'm 58. he know what's up....

[Joe]

I did not mean to infer that hardcore surfcasters are gone - just that there are less of them now than there was. I certainly did not mean any disrespect to the old guard.

The publicity thing is a slippery slope. Personally, I believe that there is a line that can be walked where fishermen can (and should) be noted, without being considered a braggart. I'm fascinated by the exploits of the ghost surfcasters. To me, the sin lies more in the lost knowledge - I believe that collectively, the sport is poorer for it. I’m not saying, "Fork over your spots, Paul." Just that so much has been lost.

With the Internet, it is certainly a two-sided sword. But I think that as time progresses the internet will prove more of a plus than a negative with a similar set of mores that accompany more traditional forms of interaction - that's already happening.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Squibby17

I may get some back lash for this but here goes.

If you guys don't pass on your knowledge or at least take (nephews, friends sons etc) fishing the sport will diminish. Almost every one I know who fishes got into fishing from father figures etc. Don't deny that as older states men you may have some responsibility to pass on what you love. I can't wait to teach my kids (don't have any yet) to fish when they come of age. I think that would be more rewarding than catching a cow by myself.

I agree, but the Internet is not necessairly the place to pass on all of that knowlegde, some yes, all of it no way. Surf Fishing in general cannot handle every secret out there and spots specifically cannot handle TMI, especially from the internet. I have seen many that share knowledge on the Internet, eventually fish together, and if and when that clicks, share far deeper knowledge. Perhaps that is a good use for the Internet Fishing.

I have seen many of the "sharpies" take people under their wings and pass on that knowledge. Some people will want to take things to the grave, human nature perhaps...

[piemma]

This has become an interesting thread from a philosophical point of view. I had this discussion with Spence yesterday and Joe and John hit upon it.

The whole point is that the internet has changed the surf fishing scene. I think that when VHF and CB radios came upon the scene, the boat fishing world changed. Remember "laying around in my old pajamas". For you young uns' that was the code the old timers used to tell their friends that they were in to big bass on their boat.
So what's happened is that the internet has diluted the surf fishing scene because everyone knows as soon as someone catches a decent fish. It not like 10 or 12 years ago when we would hit the back beaches and the only way that anyone knew we did a number was if one of the baitshop owners, where we stopped to weigh fish for our club, told The Fisherman magazine about our "scores". And even then, by the time the mag came out the news was a week old. Remember they have fins and move.

So now on to sharing knowledge.
I freely share everything I know about this surfishing thing....with my close friends. The reason I don't post is, obviously, I don't want a mob showing up the next night. It's not a question of keeping all the fish to myself but a question of conservation pressure.

There was a situation is SoCo RI this past Spring where a couple of good fishermen were into fish at a certain spot and there was a report posted here. No specific but close enough so within 2 or 3 nights there were so many trucks parked on the side of the road and so many guys walking into a private spot that the police were going to erect "no parking" signs. Before the internet, this wouldn't have happened. Even with a "good" grapevine it would take a weeks for the news to travel and the place to get overrun.

I hope this post clears up any misconception that the old guard are keeping all the secrets from the new generation. Not the case at all. We just are judicious with who we share our knowledge.

[ThrowingTimber]

Plus who else can ya call at 3am

[piemma]

....and you know your call is always welcome.

[capesams]

I agree with all the above..method's..plug's...jig's...eel's etc. havn't really change all that much and how to use them over the passed [let's just say a long time]...what I've seen is the loss of fishing turf[land] with all the people that moved in to live near the water. atleast here anyway.Alot of the good fisher's have given up because of this...they had endless mile's of free space with no one coming out to kick them off..not today..it's a whole new game. Yes some have passed, but for the most part they just gave up because of the lack of LOST productive SPOT"S. that and the lack of good fish.The good old day's are gone...enjoy what little is left.

[piemma]

Amen. Capesams is right. We will never have what we had. I remember when you could ride the Back in the middle of the night and see maybe one or 2 other trucks. Now it's like 95 at noon. We never knew how good we had it. 30s and 40s all night till your arms were so tired you could hardly fight another fish. Now a 40 would be headlines.

[Mr. Sandman]

I have met several old timers that don't fish at all anymore and have not fished in a number of years. They are very bitter out it too. Reason: Restriced Access. They use to go anyplace they please and now can't. Access is restricted now. The bird thing also has me POed lately...The beach here is STILL closed. All summer we lost, all summer. I want to make a stink but I know I will get piled on by the plover lovers and be despised for years to come.

With regard to passing on info…I don’t think you need to tell all your secrets, just take a kid fishing. I make it a point to sacrifice some time on the boat and on the beach each year and take others fishing, even if I really don't want to. I gave up a great offshore trip cause I had scheduled to take some kids out this week. It was a tough call for me. I get asked (from friends) to take kids from time to time and this past week has been my "give back" week. I took a good friends’ grand children who have never fished before (yet come to MV each summer). These kids were 13-18. It was a slow day for me but a great day for them. One kid boated an 8.5# fluke and he could tell from my excitement that it was a great catch. I told him he must eat this fish tonight to fully enjoy the day.Another kid I took out yesterday (friend of my son) lives here and has been out once before on a party boat and caught a sea bass. He is 9 yo and wanted to catch anything big. We went blue fishing. An 8#er was the biggest we could muster but he was thrilled. I mean my son could not believe how excited he was about landing this blue fish. Want to expand the sport?…Take some kids fishing; keep it simple. It will rejuvenate your appreciation for a good day on the water and one of them may take to it like you have and be grateful to you for the rest of their life for introducing the sport to them. And if they don't, at least they will not be ignorant about it from now on.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by JohnR

OK - this really ain't a fishing topic - Flushed to the Scuppers...

which makes it....................................

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

It will rejuvenate your appreciation for a good day on the water and one of them may take to it like you have and be grateful to you for the rest of their life for introducing the sport to them.

And if they don't, at least they will not be ignorant about it from now on.

very well spoken,,,,all of it, but this in particular.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

Are we who have 20 years in the surf or more slipping? is a new breed of hero emerging? Is Eben the new master? Maybe the drive is gone, maybe we cant keep up with these young bucks? does it matter if you fish 7 nights a week? Hmmmmmmmm

Is it possible that stripers now have a preference to plugs over eels?

Is the 9 to 5 every 3 day fisherman onto something?

I say hail to Master Eben, king of the August surf !!

Getting back to the original question, I'd definitely say a lot of younger guys are hitting their stride and thankfully more are getting into surf fishing. I see a lot of younger guys coming into the shop, buying the right things, and asking the right questions. While it's not so much the old guard losing it, it's just the natural evolution of the younger crowd.

For example, just take a look at the shop's staff; Earl, Arden, and Rob who are all under 25 years old (definitely still young by most standards) and all already have fish over 30#'s from shore this year including Earl's Newport County Fishing Club leading 37# fish. They all fish hard and primarily at night. Arden also had a 43# fish in the Newport surf last year and others taken from shore in Montauk. That said, they all avoid the Internet and have learned some of what they know from the Ironman and even more so the old fashioned way, time on the water in the dead of night.

As for keeping surf fishing alive in the future, that's up to us and especially fishing shops. The best way I've found to get kids into fishing (once the idea is their heads) is to actually have them catch something so pointing them in the right direction and teaching them the basics is key. Out of all customers that come into the shop, almost none get as much free gear and attention as kids interested in fishing. I'd have to say that's another negative in regards to losing more and more tackle shops to e-business. Hanging around a hardcore fishing shop when I was a kid definitely got me going in fishing.

Since there is some access discussion in this thread, I'll also add that Castle Hill in Newport has been lost due to trash...