2005 PIPING PLOVER NUMBERS DOWN - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

tattoobob · 10-31-2005, 05:52 PM

2005 PIPING PLOVER NUMBERS DOWN

MassWildlife has compiled figures for piping plovers with data gathered through the cooperation of nearly 70 biologists and beach managers from state and federal agencies, local municipalities and private conservation groups. A total of 475 pairs of Piping Plovers nested at 109 sites on Massachusetts coastal beaches. This represents a 3% decline from last year’s 490 pairs. Dr. Scott Melvin, Senior Zoologist for MassWildlife, noted that the average number of chicks fledged per pair was only 1.0; below the minimum reproductive success needed to sustain Massachusetts’ breeding population of Piping Plovers. "This year’s low reproductive success is due in part to two spring coastal storms that destroyed many nests," said.Melvin. He also said that loss of eggs and unfledged chicks to a variety of avian and mammalian predators continues to be a primary factor limiting productivity. Beach management practices to safeguard beach-nesting birds from disturbance, mortality and habitat degradation still remain effective conservation tools. Piping plovers are classified as “Threatened" on both the federal and state endangered species lists.

Swimmer · 10-31-2005, 05:56 PM

I suppose this post is a harbinger of things to come in the springtime making larger beach closures a real possibility! Why can't the bird people breed them in pens and let them go on the beaches?

JHABS · 10-31-2005, 06:07 PM

I dont Believe IT. They just DON'T want us on the Beach. Guess the Coyotes, SeaGulls, Foxes, and Racoons will Starve.

Zeno · 10-31-2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tattoobob

2005 PIPING PLOVER NUMBERS DOWN

Pipping plover , taste like chicken

afterhours · 10-31-2005, 06:20 PM

plovers- send 'em back where they came from.

BigFish · 10-31-2005, 07:04 PM

We got a long way to go before they are gone soooo.......lets get to work!

Raven · 10-31-2005, 07:13 PM

from New Zealand.... just like apples we get 5-600 bushels per acre here....
in new zealand they get around 2500 bpa....putting all the new england
apple growers out of business as they cant compete. so grow the friggan
little beachy birds over there......if you can raise 22 million chinese pheasants
in south dakota...then you can raise anything....anywhere.

MoroneSaxatilis · 10-31-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Why can't the bird people breed them in pens and let them go on the beaches?

LLoyd's State Park in Westport has pens ON the beaches.

ThrowingTimber · 10-31-2005, 07:47 PM

*Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp* sorry

Slipknot · 10-31-2005, 08:45 PM

Maybe if the morons realized the plovers are NOT native to the cape, then they'll know why the numbers are down. The birds are leaving the area because of predators, how can you blame the birds? ya, close the beaches to humans, that makes alot of sense

Brother Brian · 10-31-2005, 09:08 PM

The only time I've ever SEEN a plover egg it was in the mouth of a raccon at Napatree.

Squid kids Dad · 10-31-2005, 09:15 PM

B B ..Never liked raccoons either

Brother Brian · 10-31-2005, 10:33 PM

Me neither. Got two of them this year on my way to the wash and learned a third one a lesson he'll not soon forget courtesy of my 4Runner skid plate. I don't move an inch anymore, I let them decide how its going to turn out.

Mr. Sandman · 11-01-2005, 10:07 AM

I am with Habs on this one. After speaking with the guy out here who "manages" the beach closings...I am convinced birds or no birds they don't want you out there. The birds are a pawn they are using to keep you off the beach. IMO the birds would do better if there were vehicle traffic! The birds that have done the best are the ones that nest near a busy area where there are lots of traffic and few preditors. The ones that nest in the remote beach areas get nailed by storms or skunks/coons/crows etc.

Why don't they just pick up the birds and MOVE them to NOMANS, MUSKEGET, TUCKERNUCK, MONOMOY or any of the other islands that are for the most part dedicated as a bird scancuary and have few preditors, OR force them to nest elsewhere, chase them away and let them "find" these areas. It is clear to me the system they have in place is not working. Of course it is not THEIR fault or program that is failing, it is the storms that killed them.yeah right.

The beach closings this summer sucked and it was for naught!

SeaWolf · 11-01-2005, 03:45 PM

i have to say that it was in fact due to high surf this spring and large stroms right during the nesting season that the plovers did have a low productivity rate. this was especially true in mass. ri was hit hard as well, but some sections did very well considering.

sandman, you are partitially correct. you, and others, have to understand who your audience is when you refer to "they". yes, "they" probably do not like see all the beach traffic on the beaches. f&w will do what they need to, not matter if it is "they", "us", or whomever, that power is given to them by the endangered species act. states have to abide by those rules as long as any specie is on that list. it just happens to be the plover. now, who are "they"? "they" are the people that can afford to pay for that oceanside view. "they" can afford to donate towards the funds needed to keep the projects going in their area. "they" donate millions to adubon, green peace, etc. "they" walk the beaches daily and give reports to f&w. we need to beat "they" and you can only do that in numbers and facts. i have personally seen them beaten at their own game. we all have to understand that the birds are here and as long as they are on this list, we have to live by it. organizations such as mbba have done a lot to fight against beach closures. join these types of groups and learn about the bird first.

my one gripe for people that do complain about this is so many do not know the facts, but are quick to complain or voice an unresearched opinion on a board. sandman, you talked to a rep, so you are trying to learn and i respect that or post to "fit in". now, let's change the roles a little. take the cod. this fish is going thru another crash from what i have read and heard. could this fish be put on the endanger species act? who knows. who would have ever fathomed such a thing 100 years ago or several hundred years ago when this country was settled mainly due to cod trade. now, what impact would cod have if it were closed to all fishing? how many would then jump up in arms? how many of us would attend meetings learning the facts and trying to change the opinion of those making that closure statement before flipping out? or, how about the striped bass? what if it crashes again? now, i am only using the cod as an example we all seem to care about and is in fact in trouble.

the plover happens to have an impact on many of us as it is on the same beaches we fish. that could very easily have been any other bird, insect, etc. f&w is doing their job. it's the people that take that job that f&w do to their advantage and try to get all of us permanently off the beaches. that could happen with or w/o the help of the bird, they are just using that right now. everyone has to understand that and who the real enemy is. to simply blame f&w or the plover is naive and selfish thinking.

now, this is my personal experiences. some on the cape could have other real experiences, and i do not mean a sign closing off the beach as your own experiences. i mean attending meetings, fighting for access, challenging the property owners using this bird for their advantages.

PI guy · 11-01-2005, 07:47 PM

Any creature that decides to nurture it's young at the bases of dunes deserves to die a wet death.

Raven · 11-01-2005, 07:58 PM

one thing evolution can never explain is the total difference between animal brain equipped with instinct, and the human mind with creative reasoning powers of intellect and devoid of instinct in the strict sense that animals possess it.

stripersnipr · 11-01-2005, 08:51 PM

Banned on Plymouth Beach: Kite flying within two hundred yards of nesting areas (the whole beach). The kite shadows might make them nervous.

NaCl H2O · 11-02-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Brian

Me neither. Got two of them this year on my way to the wash and learned a third one a lesson he'll not soon forget courtesy of my 4Runner skid plate. I don't move an inch anymore, I let them decide how its going to turn out.

moron

MakoMike · 11-02-2005, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaWolf

take the cod. this fish is going thru another crash from what i have read and heard. could this fish be put on the endanger species act? who knows. .

Then you have been reading outdated materials. The 2003 year class is one of the largest in recent memory and will be big enough to catch starting in 2006 or 2007, depending on the size limits. We are trying to protect as many of them as we can so that we can get several more strong year classes out of them before they begin to get depleted in numbers. If you want to get codfish more help, lobby the MA and NH fishery managers to close the near shore spawning areas from November 15 to Jan. 31st.

BobT · 11-02-2005, 07:24 PM

Gee.....I'm sorry to hear that.

It just makes want to cry.

Swimmer · 11-02-2005, 07:45 PM

Seawolf pontificated well the point that we should all try to learn more about the PP. He is right. But as Sandman said and I have said many times in the past, THEY do not want to see the sillouette outline of a 4 x 4 on the beach as the sun sets. THEY do not want to see the sillouette outline of a fisherman and his gear as the sun sets. I am surpirsied that THEY have tried to buy the sun so THEY can have all to THEMselves. IT is clearly a status generated concern by THEM in regard to the plover.

Swimmer · 11-03-2005, 12:12 PM

They have money to donate to thier private causes, but if THEY did not get a tax incentive for doing so THEY wouldn't donate dime one. Furthermore THEY (see PETA members) unlike recreational fishermen/women sometimes use violence themselves or push easily lead others to do something violent on thier behalf as a means of achieve thier goals, which in my mind shoot large holes in any credibility THEY lay claim too. I don't have anything against anyone who possesses more means than I do, but I do have something against people who use those means to purposely screw us out of something that is there for all to use and rub the fact in our faces that THIER money is responsible for the beach closings.

The trials and tribulations that we recreational fishermen/women face as far as getting our voices heard and our votes in the booth to mean something are almost overwhelming. I know beach access issues have little to do with the RFA and most of the other organizations that cater to fishing issues, but it seems to me that if a company like Cabela's wanted to donate web site space for various issues and actually pay employees to register people in each state to issue that list with our concerns and how we feel in regard to many pressing issues it would be a win win situation for Cabela's. So far one organization has yet to gain enough strength and/or members obviously to mean anything. EITHER THAT OR OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS THINK WE DO NOT VOTE.

Bake Mellow · 11-03-2005, 12:24 PM

they are just sooo yummy, I can't control myself

MakoMike · 11-03-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swimmer

They have money to donate to thier private causes, but if THEY did not get a tax incentive for doing so THEY wouldn't donate dime one. Furthermore THEY (see PETA members) unlike recreational fishermen/women sometimes use violence themselves or push easily lead others to do something violent on thier behalf as a means of achieve thier goals, which in my mind shoot large holes in any credibility THEY lay claim too. I don't have anything against anyone who possesses more means than I do, but I do have something against people who use those means to purposely screw us out of something that is there for all to use and rub the fact in our faces that THIER money is responsible for the beach closings.

The trials and tribulations that we recreational fishermen/women face as far as getting our voices heard and our votes in the booth to mean something are almost overwhelming. I know beach access issues have little to do with the RFA and most of the other organizations that cater to fishing issues, but it seems to me that if a company like Cabela's wanted to donate web site space for various issues and actually pay employees to register people in each state to issue that list with our concerns and how we feel in regard to many pressing issues it would be a win win situation for Cabela's. So far one organization has yet to gain enough strength and/or members obviously to mean anything. EITHER THAT OR OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS THINK WE DO NOT VOTE.

You left out a third possibility; maybe the other 99.99% of the country thinks the endangered species act is a good idea and they don't give a damn if less than .0001% of the population is inconvenienced.

Swimmer · 11-03-2005, 09:48 PM

Ya Mike I did kinda start ranting a little didn't I. I agree with the ESA.