Lumber Gripe - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

MAC · 03-08-2005, 12:04 PM

This is just me griping but it may help others. Went into my (used to be) favorite lumber establishment to pick up some 8/4 ( 2") white pine. Price $4.70 a Board foot. ( A board foot is 1" thick 12"x12") So I pick up 2 2x4s ; actual 2x4 dimensions. They were each a little over 7' long. I did the rough math in my head and roughly came up with a little over 9 BF. The guy hits it with the "tally stick" and comes up with 12 BF. I questioned him on it and he stated" If we went with" actual " measurements , that is what we would come up with. I went out to the truck and got my calculator and did the math. 2" x 4" x 7' 6"and came up with 10 BdFt. He got a little irked and said we use the "tally stick" . Said "we are talking rough cut lumber". The only problem with this is that dimensional lumber is counted in the rough too. A 2x4 is actually 1 1/2 " x 3 1/2" after it is dressed. Something doesn't add up. So what it all comes down to is that posted price of $4.70 a BdFt actually comes out to $5.65 a BdFt. I've been a carpenter for over 20 years and a tape measure doesn't lie.

tobias · 03-08-2005, 12:11 PM

Which guy helped you out? I had problems with the bigger guy with reddish hair.

Karl F · 03-08-2005, 12:14 PM

I hear U loud and clear on this one MAC.. lumber yards in general have been fudging board feet numbers for years... ask him if that tally stick works better with vaseline on it, and then tell him where to stick it.

a little off topic here, but a story that might make ya chuckle.

When I was 21 and just getting into the booze store, my boss at that time, Reggie Higgins, was a character, called a spade a spade, anyway, Josh Nickerson, owner of Nickerson Lumber, (now Mid-Cape Center), he was a customer, and carried a calculator, (very thrifty old Cape Codder). President Carter had just ordered that liqour be sold in metric units as opposed to the old quart and half-gallon days. Old Josh is doing the math, and asks, "Why is a one liter (quart replacement) bottle of Jim Beam, a better deal per ounce than the 1.75 liter (half-gallon replacement."... I don't say a word...
Reggie pipes up Loud and Clear....
"Hey... Josh... measured a %$%$%$%$in' 2 by 4 lately?"
Store full of people ta boot...
Old Josh justabout swallowed his pipe, made a couple of grunts, paid for his Jim Beam and left....

Slipknot · 03-08-2005, 12:17 PM

I hear ya Mac

Only thing you can do is complain to the higher ups but sometimes it's not worth wasting your breathe.

Ever since that place stopped only selling to contractors, the prices have gone nuts and the stock got worse. I needed a couple sheets of cherry one day and I was near there so I grabbed it, not much to pick thru and it wasn't even plain sliced , rotary

If it's your local place, it sure has changed since I first went there in 1986.

Try Brooks, similar price but you pay for what you get.

If it's pine you want, maybe try hording some of the native pine that is air dried, it would be better for building plugs anyway, not to mention cheaper.

MAC · 03-08-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tobias
Which guy helped you out? I had problems with the bigger guy with reddish hair.

Same guy. I got the impression that he didn't like me questioning him. Actual measuremente were 7'3" and the other 7'5". To save 10 bux wasn't worth getting the owner down there. They always "round up" so it is in their favor it seems. Maybe that is how he has grown so much in the last 15 years.

Diggin Jiggin · 03-08-2005, 12:48 PM

That sucks Mac. I'm down to my last piece of AYC, so it's time for me to go shopping too....

Does anyone have a good source for maple or birch on the south shore ? I think I want to try working with hardwoods next, maybe some needles and a few darters...

MAC · 03-08-2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diggin Jiggin
That sucks Mac. I'm down to my last piece of AYC, so it's time for me to go shopping too....

Does anyone have a good source for maple or birch on the south shore ? I think I want to try working with hardwoods next, maybe some needles and a few darters...

These guys carry about everything but it'll cost ya especially if that grumpy guy is working.

tobias · 03-08-2005, 12:56 PM

I called the guy on his calc and he gave the excuse that there was a minimum amount for exotic woods. He's full of $hit. I think I will make a call!

tobias · 03-08-2005, 01:08 PM

Well, made a call and talked to Dave inside the office and he said he would take care of the mistake made by the worker. Funny, I said I had a problem with my order and Dave guessed which worker I had the problem with. Dave told me if you have a problem with the wood tally, grab someone inside the office so they can double check the tally! I guess I'll be going back to get some money back!

Gloucester2 · 03-08-2005, 01:36 PM

Mention you're going to discuss the matter with the Division of Weights and Measures . . . Just like a butcher can't call 14 ounces of hamburg a pound this guy can't decide what a board foot of lumber is . . . BS like this that gives businesses a bad name.

I once put 12 gallons of gas in my wife's Civic . . . only problem was it was a 10 gallon tank . . . mentioned it to the guy in the station and he gave me an attitude . . . rather than escalate the matter I dropped a dime. Don't know if it was related but a short time later a buddy that worked part time in a station said every station in Town was rechecked "off cycle"

backcast · 03-08-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diggin Jiggin
That sucks Mac. I'm down to my last piece of AYC, so it's time for me to go shopping too....

Does anyone have a good source for maple or birch on the south shore ? I think I want to try working with hardwoods next, maybe some needles and a few darters...

I don't know what lumber store you guys are talking about, but I have always had good luck at Heritage Woodwright in Freetown and Downes and Reader in Stoughton.

If someone were to pull that @#$% with me, I would tell him to keep the wood, after he had pulled it out of rack.

Pete F. · 03-08-2005, 03:50 PM

Google riven wood turning and look at some of the articles. You might never pay a lumber yard for locally available wood again.

jkswimmer · 03-08-2005, 04:30 PM

HK Hardwoods on Rt44 in Lakeville has a good selection.

Nebe · 03-08-2005, 05:43 PM

Tally stick = rip off stick

Backbeach Jake · 03-08-2005, 06:30 PM

I've been known to unload the truck right then and there 'cos a yard boss thought that I should buy some crap sticks, the warped and broken ones. Dumped them on the ground and went elsewhere.

Raven · 03-16-2006, 05:37 AM

from whats advertised on the shelf....

thats the advertised price ....

it cant be -> both....

and the price on the shelf stands first

otherwise it's false advertising and thats
against the law.

obviously the further north you go
the better the deal you get....
except for the gas usage sting...

ed morini · 03-16-2006, 06:54 AM

I have been doinf this for over 35 years and have heard everypossible story as to why my tally was never the samw as the yards. I bought a stick 34 1/2 years ago and am still hearing stories. In the past if there was to much discrepancy I just walked. Now I deal only with yards selling wholesale and really watch the tally. I know lumber is actually sold by its weight/cu. ft. and when its cut at the stump I pay for the waste there also, the milling shavings and on and on, that's why you round up on the stick but jumping to the next column is not fair. I also get a little tired off hearing " 10"and wider is 20% more" .when I know that lumber is shipped random lenght/width.
I have found that the smaller mills are by far the best bet for honest pricing.

MikeTLive · 03-16-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed morini

I also get a little tired off hearing " 10"and wider is 20% more" .when I know that lumber is shipped random lenght/width.

thinking about this one for a bit.
the wider the board, the less waste from cutting - they dont use laser or razor do they?
think about it. if I rip a board once I generate one pass worth of sawdust. If I rip each of them I now have three passes worth of dust.
Hmm.. the more cuts the more dust. the more dust on the floor the less wood.

I suppose its harder to find a large piece that is clean but c'mon now.

Slipknot · 03-16-2006, 01:49 PM

10" and wider demand more money per board foot for a reason. They are usually in a different stack, sure sometimes a 10" wide or better board can be mixed in another stack and I have had that at Heritage Woodwrights, and they figure the price the same as the other boards not the premium price since it was not in the designated stack of wider boards. The wider boards have to come from larger trees and they are getting harder to come by since we are cutting down the forests before they get a chance to grow these days. There's no more old growth forests anymore

You guy want wide boards for the same price as the narrower ones, then glue some up or pay the price, it's that easy. I sometimes pay the price since it's worth it to me and besides the customer ends up paying for it if I figure it into the job.
You are right Ed, the lumber is shipped random length and width but it is grouped together into 10' lengths , 8' lengths etc. just as it is separated into the wider widths.

Tagger · 03-16-2006, 05:08 PM

that tally man couldn't tally me bananas..

ed morini · 03-16-2006, 07:46 PM

Slip, alot of yards do have the stock sorted as you said. But I have seen many cases where random widths have been pulled from regular stacks and repriced. Also been at rail heads and seen large quantities of stock unloaded all random width and lenghts and alsoresorted. I have no problem with companies making money...just irks me to pay more than the going rate. When one of the yards mentioned above first opened I was one othe first customers, bought for my shop and the scholl I was teaching at, there was only a straight stock ticket then. As years went by one of the owners had his son running things , and naturally things changed. Among the changing was the wide width notation and deliveries overstocked by 15% ( I don't know about other shops). I have no affinity for wide stock, only in rare instances (repro furniture, boatwork). When I need it I order from Bershire Products.
I have no problem paying whatever the yard wants for quality stock. In the yards case above I sent two bids out for pricing 40% difference in price and the lesser price was for spanish cedar ordorata while theirs was for "regal which is gargage. Sorry for the rant just gets me ticked off, maybe I belong in the "Pharts" thread.

Slipknot · 03-16-2006, 07:59 PM

Yep, I don't like when they try to cheat me either. Like car dealerships, almost all of them try to put the screws to ya, and what's with dentists charging a cash paying customer more than they do if it's covered by insurance

we both belong in the GOP forum with capesams I guess

my thoughts on yardworkers cheating customers are that either the guy is gonna steal stock and is making up for the difference for when inventory is done, or he is too lazy or uneducated about how to figure the correct amount.

what brought this thread back anyway?