chew on this - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

thefishingfreak · 07-26-2006, 10:12 PM

Love him or loathe him, he nailed this one right on the head..........

By Rush Limbaugh:

I think the vast differences in compensation between victims of the September 11 casualty and those who die serving our country in Uniform are profound. No one is really talking about it either, because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11. Well, I can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the
entitlement mentality of this country. If you lost a family member in the September 11 attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million.

If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in ac tion, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct death benefit, half of which is taxable.

Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.

Keep in mind that some of the people who are getting an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough. Their deaths were tragic, but for most, they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Soldiers put themselves in harms way FOR ALL OF US, and they and their families know the dangers.

We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11 families are getting. In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well.

You see where this is going, don't you? Folks, this is part and parcel of over 50 years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad. Every time a pay raise comes up for the military, they usually receive next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live in low-rent housing. Make sense?

However, our own U S. Congress voted themselves a raise. Many of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month. And most are now equal to being millionaires plus. They do not receive Social Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the system.
If some of the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7, they may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed them in harm's way receives a pension of $15,000 per month

I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting .
" When do we finally do something about this?"

The Dad Fisherman · 07-27-2006, 07:15 AM

That is VERY Sad.....

We pay a lot of them below Minmum Wage to go over there and do it too.....very sad

Mugz · 07-27-2006, 07:27 AM

Unbelievable........Thanks for posting.

RIJIMMY · 07-27-2006, 07:51 AM

I would challenge those numbers, I wonder where he got them, who is funding the $ to the 9/11 victims? The government? Charity?
Are they factoring in life insurance payments from the corporations the victims were working for? I would imagine those would be big $. When was this written? I thought congress that passed legislation to significanlty increse the solider death benefit? I dont think any $ can ever compensate for the loss but, I think these numbers are not accuarate and its like comparing apples to oranges.

Mugz · 07-27-2006, 08:05 AM

This is not about the numbers. Even if the numbers are skewed......

The Dad Fisherman · 07-27-2006, 08:19 AM

This is a link to the Current salaries that are paid to the Military. You figure they are working 70 -80 hours a week over there.....You don't start making Minimum wage until you hit like E-6......thats sad.

and if we factor in insurance to the 911 victims why is the military insurance so sucky.

Military Pay Schedule

Nebe · 07-27-2006, 08:30 AM

The pain killers must be opening his mind

Raven · 07-27-2006, 08:38 AM

we all know that the minimum wage is so far off track its sickening.

When a serviceman looses his life in combat serving his country he shouldn't have to worry about his family's welfare as he is just moments away from death.

i was reading yesterday about the iranians gathering to join hezbola to fight in the war...some as old as 72....

they first prayed and praised those responsible for blowing up 241
members of our military within their own barracks as hero's ...

...and so, i dont see the difference at all as it was terrorist related
when compared to the 9-11 compensation for lives lost.

the fact that the people in the two towers were civilians should mean that their family should recieve less money than our military personell.

justplugit · 07-27-2006, 02:15 PM

Thanks Mike, like you say,he nailed that one. My gripe is the amount of money and perks our Congressman recieve to decide who will get OUR tax money, so that they can get re elected to vote themselves more perks, and another pay raise.

Where are all the Stateman who are willing to put our country ahead of themselves getting re elected? Move on ,you won't see 'em here.

RIJIMMY · 07-27-2006, 02:30 PM

my point is that his comparison makes no sense. 9/11 victims to serviceman kia. I mean, lets make it even easier. The average kid out of college makes $20,000 more a year than someone in the service. His company may provide life insurance so in the case he dies as a result of a paper cut, he'd most liklely get $100,000 more than a man/womain in the armed service kia. Those points alone are enough to empahisize the crappy deal that active soliders as well as family members of deceased soliders get, why compare to 9/11 victims? Whats the point?

RIJIMMY · 07-27-2006, 02:37 PM

This is what I am questioning: If you lost a family member in the September 11 attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million.

Joe the Janitor, killled on 9/11 is going to get 1.1 million? Thats crap. Who is paying the $???
I just dont see the relavance to our soliders, or what point it makes. Our soliders are grossly underpaid/compensated and the death benefit s/b $100,000,000 per solider, no argument at all. I thinks its irrelevant point to compare to 9/11 victims and I dont beleive those numbers are accurate.

spence · 07-27-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

my point is that his comparison makes no sense. 9/11 victims to serviceman kia. I mean, lets make it even easier. The average kid out of college makes $20,000 more a year than someone in the service. His company may provide life insurance so in the case he dies as a result of a paper cut, he'd most liklely get $100,000 more than a man/womain in the armed service kia. Those points alone are enough to empahisize the crappy deal that active soliders as well as family members of deceased soliders get, why compare to 9/11 victims? Whats the point?

Rush is simply trying to manipulate his listeners in an attempt to bash the "entitlement" negative he's blamed on "liberalisim".

Personally I think our dead and injured troops do deserve a lot more, but they also signed a contract knowing they could die in their job.

As RIJIMMY says, "his comparison makes no sense".

Instead of using the 9/11 issue for partisan punditry, he should lobby for increased death benefits based on the tremendous sacrifice of our troops...

Buuuttt...that's not how Rush makes his millions now is it?

-spence

RIJIMMY · 07-27-2006, 02:50 PM

oh crap, are spence and I agreeing????

I actually just read a report from the RAND group and the $ amounts look right, actually RAND has even more $ going to 9/11 victims. Still, I think the comparison is not valid and the more I think of it, in poor taste. There is no $ for losing someone. Instead of bashing the 9/11 funds, lets focus on getting more $ to the military families.
Ps - side note: http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar..._limbaugh2.htm

chris L · 07-27-2006, 02:56 PM

what did rush say before he was caught being a pain killer addict
"What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with illegal drug use. Too many whites are getting away
with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with using and trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity
is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law.
The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."

Rush Quotes on Drugs and Drug users

Rush Limbaugh Show, 9-23-93
LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) He says that, I know every expert in the world will disagree with me, but I don't buy into the disease part of drug abuse. The first time you reach for a substance you are making a choice. Every time you go back, you're making a personal choice. I feel very strongly about that.'

What he's saying is that if there's a line of cocaine here, I have to make the choice to go down and sniff it. And I don't know how--how to do it, but if I was going to do it, I'd do it. If there were a gun here, it wouldn't fire itself. I've got to reach for it and--and pull the trigger. And his point is that we are rationalizing all this irresponsibility and all the choices people are making and we're blaming not them, but society for it. All these Hollywood celebrities say the reason they're weird and bizarre is because they were abused by their parents. So we're going to pay for that kind of rehab, too, and we shouldn't. It's not our responsibility.

Rush Limbaugh Show, 1-15-96
In fact, I'm reminded--I had this story about three weeks ag--maybe it was before Christmas, maybe it was as far back as November--but there were a couple of drug convictions out in--I think it was a Colorado court. And these guys had--had done some really bad stuff, and there were mandated federal sentences for the crimes they had committed. And the judge apologized to the criminals while sentencing them because he thought it was too severe. He apologized and the com--the community was outraged. So we've gone from a judge sentencing a mother who makes her child beg six months in jail, to judges apologizing for getting dope dealers and crack dealers and drug salesmen off the streets with too severe a sentence.

Rush Limbaugh Show, 10-13-95
Now get this: Bob Johnson, drunk, driving around Minneapolis, threatening to shoot himself with a BB gun--Wonder where Al Cowlings was this night?--was drunk and calling people on the phone. Lis--listen to this. Bob Johnson was once listed in legislative directories as a school social worker, quote, "recognized for work in fields of youth and family problems and alcohol drug prevention."'
Another Democrat--another--folks, these people are taking it really hard, you know, these

Democrats, threatening to kill themselves with a BB gun, getting drunk. Here--a guy who had been cited, who had been recognized for his great work in alcohol and drug abuse is drunk on the highways. This is just--it's tragic, but it's just--it's outrageously funny. And he is just the latest in a series of Democratic legislators in Minnesota accused of crimes including shoplifting, spouse abuse and insurance fraud. Conflict resolution, Democrats and all their good social works, and still, look at what ha--it just--it's--it's hypocrisy. ...

Rush Limbaugh Show, December 16, 1994
So we're not going to get on--we don't fault these animals for a lack of discipline, but we get on human beings who are fat for lack of discipline and you know it and I know it. But here's the thing that struck me about this. We have alcoholics and drug addicts in our society, don't we? And what do we say about them? Well, they can't help it. Why, it's genetic. Why, they have a disease. Why, put one thimbleful of scotch in front of them and they can die.'

We totally exempt them from any control over their lives, do we not? Some athlete will spend two years snorting lines of coke. He can't help it.' You know, it's--it's just--it's not--it's--it's genetic. These people--they're predisposed to having this addictive syndrome. They--they can't help--yeah, like that line of cocaine just happened to march into the hotel, go up to the athlete's room and put itself right there in front of him on his blotter. "

take anything he says with a grain of oxicontin .

now about the subject at hand .
there is no comparison . The 911 victims went to jobs everyday that they did not sign on to fight or die for anyone . A GI knows that there is a great chance that someone will try and shoot or kill them before signing on the dotted line . Are GI's paid appropriately ? absolutely NOT but we know going in the pay sucks , the hours long , the work hard and no one appreciates it . Some Congress man having sex with his page making big cash now and in retirement will decide that I must go east and fight and maybe die , cause they see just cause in doing so .

this is just my opinion if you disagree tough shiite

justplugit · 07-27-2006, 03:41 PM

"What is the point?" While i would still like to see what the private insurance payments made to the 9/11 families factored in,the point in comparing 9/11 victims to our servicemen is to show the difference in compensation paid to a non military citizen killed by a terrorist vs a sericman killed by a terrorist.

We have witnessed 3 of our friends families who have gone through the loss of a 30 yr old daughter and a 26 yr old son in 9/11,and a 22yr old son killed in Iraq. All killed by terrorists. The horrible suffering was the same in all cases.

While $ will never heal the wounds ,our servicemen deserve the same amount of death payment as our non military citizens.

BigMike · 07-27-2006, 03:43 PM

Classic example of "Haves" vs "Have-nots." "Haves" will always make out better for less effort, whether it's this scenario or any other. A lot of the people who join the armed forces do so because of lack of better alternatives. They come from a low-income background and are heavily recruited.

basswipe · 07-27-2006, 05:54 PM

To all in this thread...F**k the numbers!

Conservative or liberal the fact remains that vets and their families in this THEIR country are fighting a downhill battle when it comes to benefits.It has progressively been getting worse for those who've fought and been disabled.Or worse the families of those soldiers who've been killed are more likely than not to go into DEBT!!!INTO FREAKIN DEBT!!!!!

No numbers needed to see what's happening right before your eyes.Who cares about Limbaugh and his dope habit or how much he makes or whether its Bush's or Clinton's fault?Or whether 9/11 victims and their families make more money than those of the Iraq War.

What really kills me is most people are great at finger pointing and suggesting who's to blame and who should or might fix the problems at hand.And yet when they walk by that Vet at Stop and Shop and they won't even toss a dime his way and he's the guy collecting the money to SAVE these families who's husbands,wives,sons, and daughters are giving their LIVES to keep some religious freak from flying a goddamn airplane into YOUR house.

Argue over all the STUPID CRAP and yes arguing over what Limbaugh thinks or does qualifies as STUPID CRAP,it doesn't change the fact that Iraq War Vets and their families are suffering terribly.

Wanna make a differance?Then YOU make a differance.Then YOU make the time and sacrifice a little your precious freedom and help those who need it instead of arguing about effing Limbaugh or who's getting the most money!

Arguing over who makes more.Sickening at best.Totally shameful at worst.

RIJIMMY · 07-27-2006, 09:13 PM

I just deldeted my last 3 posts,
you're not getting our point, not worth arguing over.

note to self, dont drink a six pack and look at scuppers, you'll only get po'd

gone fishin · 07-27-2006, 10:48 PM

Mike - thanks for the post - brought them out of the woodwork eh?

basswipe · 07-28-2006, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I just deldeted my last 3 posts,
you're not getting our point, not worth arguing over.

'magine that.

It was never about "getting it" its about about taking care of our boys.Right now they ain't being takin care of.Political alignments and opinions mean squat when it comes to the welfare of our vets and their families.

basswipe · 07-28-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gone fishin

Mike - thanks for the post - brought them out of the woodwork eh?

When it comes to OUR vets,woodwork has nothing to do with it.

spence · 07-28-2006, 10:24 PM

Another angle nobody has mentioned is that the 9/11 victims represent a quite small population compared with the number of Vets killed or with serious injuries alive today.

I actually listen to Rush a bit, and I can honestly say that you should trust nothing he says...not that he doesn't make an objective point now and then...

But the man has become a multi-millionaire by manipulating the truth to make his listeners feel like they are right.

I just about puked the other day when a woman called in and said she got all her "news" from Rush's show

That's not just pathetic...it's freaking dangerous.

-spence