Cutty fish are strong

[Slipknot]

Time to upgrade all my serious plugs to 6X hooks, the 4X VMC's ain't making it.
After this happened I upgraded this howdy to the 6X and it still caught fish fine.

Toby isn't kidding when he says bring your heaviest gear for fishing there.

[numbskull]

How'd your Lami 1201m do?

[Slipknot]

the new rod did very well numbskull, I used it the whole time and broke it in the right way with bass on plugs It casts great and handled all my plugs fine.

[Grapenuts]

works well with the older 650 penn too....casts a mile...great for big blues on nantucket off the beach.

[thewaterfordstriper]

i have been switching all my head hooks to 6x after my trip last fall to cuttyhunk.
been dropping 1 one size though because of the little extra weight.

[scoobe]

A fish bent the hook closed?!

[Pete_G]

I have a 4/0 6X in the shop that looks just like that hook.

[Zeno]

I don't know if going to 6x will solve the problem.If the drag is still tight enough to allow that to happen I am afraid that 6x will meet similar fate.I think better idea would be to lighten up on the drag than go up in hook size.Unless are fishing some very unforgiving terrain

[wheresmy50]

I'd always thought bass straighten plug hooks by either using the other hook or the plug body to put more strain on the hook than they could just by pulling? I never thought it was possible that they could do this just by pulling on the drag - I mean, guys use 3/0 34007s on red gills and land pretty nice fish.

But I've been wrong before, so shapies - is it drag or something else?

-Ty

[fishaholic18]

Originally Posted by scoobe

A fish bent the hook closed?!

Looks like the point on the right started to straighten and the one on left bent closed on the plug body. Is that right Bruce?

[chris L]

one was bent out and the other was bent inward by his other jaw closing down on it .

[likwid]

The problem with cutty fish is they know to run in the rocks.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're smart enough to find a hole and wedge themselves in.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Time to upgrade all my serious plugs to 6X hooks, the 4X VMC's ain't making it.
After this happened I upgraded this howdy to the 6X and it still caught fish fine.

Toby isn't kidding when he says bring your heaviest gear for fishing there.

Good pics slip, hopefully you landed some good ones. One question for all of you hard core plug guys out there though..... Have you tried single siwash hooks on your big plugs, say 5/0 or 6/0, instead of the trebles, or does it mess the plug's action up? By this I mean the belly hooks, not the tail hooks. A charter captain I used to fish with off momomoy would switch out the belly hooks and install big siwash hooks(as large as 9/0) to pull very large fish from the rips on wire line. You still see some guys doing it off cutty with the J-plug knockoffs too. In my mind, a real large fish would be more likely landed from the surf this way too. Thoughts?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by wheresmy50

I mean, guys use 3/0 34007s on red gills and land pretty nice fish.



-Ty

a redgill is soft and flexible, thus the single hook is under hardly any leverage, while a trebble on a 9 or 12 inch plug is under a great deal of leverage..... its hard to explain, but think of a bass taking a 12 inch needle by the tail and then the belly hook foul hooks on the bass's gill plate, while your reeling the fish in, the needle is pointing away from you and has 6 inches of leverage between the nose loop and the belly hook, so for every poound of pressure you pull on it, the hook is recieving much much more force.

[Saltheart]

Leverage between the multiple hooks or the lure body or something external (rocks , ec) bends the hooks. Unlikely just a pull from the fish will bend the hooks except ofr a rare straightening caused if the tip is stuck but doesn't penetrate to the bend. A staright pull on just the tip can staighten them mbut unlikely it could bend them all mangled like that.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by likwid

The problem with cutty fish is they know to run in the rocks.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're smart enough to find a hole and wedge themselves in.

I had a monster do this on one of my plugs last year. 4/0 4X on a jointed danny. Had the fish on for 5 minutes and was never in control. Finally the plug came (with no fish) with the belly treble straightened and the metal lip bent in half.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Zeno

I don't know if going to 6x will solve the problem.If the drag is still tight enough to allow that to happen I am afraid that 6x will meet similar fate.I think better idea would be to lighten up on the drag than go up in hook size.Unless are fishing some very unforgiving terrain

maybe so that a 6X will end up the same but your assumption on the drag is incorrect as I had my drag set lighter than I do in the canal. And besides, the hook bent inwards not out. A 20 pounder did this, I landed the fish and the slightly bent part of the hook was buried in the roof of the bass's top lip. It took me in and around every rock it could, my fireline and 52 lb flouro learder held up fine. Drag on the Saltiga is smooth as butter.

Originally Posted by fishaholic18

Looks like the point on the right started to straighten and the one on left bent closed on the plug body. Is that right Bruce?

It was the rear treble that bent.

Originally Posted by chris L

one was bent out and the other was bent inward by his other jaw closing down on it .

yep, that's what we figured.




I use a single siwash on the back of many of my plugs but the howdy's I make have to have a treble in back in order to get the action I want from them.

I didn't catch lots of fish, maybe I should have tried more in the daytime than I did at night. I got 8 fish, only one was caught at night, a 30" fish. Mostly 26" to 28" or so fish, the best was the 20 lbder, I did get some small rats too but they don't count. If you want some excercise, go to Cutty, me, I'd rather jig the canal

[Flaptail]

Uh, I don't know Bruce. I have felt the drag setting you use on the canal, it's the same one the tugboats use to tow barges!

A lighter setting in your book could still tow my fat ass in no problem!

Me and Numbskull were out Saturday night, bastage outfished me again, that's twice now this week! Revenge is mine!

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

Me and Numbskull were out Saturday night, bastage outfished me again, that's twice now this week! Revenge is mine!

i'd outfish both of you blindfolded

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by wheresmy50

I'd always thought bass straighten plug hooks by either using the other hook or the plug body to put more strain on the hook than they could just by pulling? I never thought it was possible that they could do this just by pulling on the drag - I mean, guys use 3/0 34007s on red gills and land pretty nice fish.

But I've been wrong before, so shapies - is it drag or something else?

-Ty

I've straightened a 4x VMC treble on a approx. 26" bass once. My drag was tight and I was skipping the fish across the surface and all of a sudden the plug came flying back at me and stuck into my waders.

One straightened tine on the treble, clearly caused just by the force of me pulling too hard.

On a side note, I don't think I've straightened hooks even once on a striper this year. Softer surf stick, lighter drag, more patience, and a lot of oppurtunities to test my adjustments this year has me convinced drag pressure is the often the cause.

If the fish wasn't rubbing it's face in the bottom, the failure is likely to be somewhat drag related. Whether it's the reel's drag or increased pressure from line being wrapped around a rock or something like that.

I wonder if a fish running away from you with 2 tines of the treble well buried and the eye pointing towards the bass' nose could make a hook look like that. If the fish was running away one tine would likely straighten, the other would push in, and then your fish pops off and your hook comes back looking like that. Leverage yes, but drag pressure too.

[Nebe]

how long was your leader slip? once i started using leaders that were 12 to 15 feel long i never bent a hook or ripped out a hook... hook to land ratio was almost 100%

[Slipknot]

26" Nebe, long enough for me on spinning gear with a spro swivel.

Like I wrote earlier, I landed the fish that bent the hook. Perhaps the one tine got bent inwards on a rock, who knows, but it may be possible the fish closed it with his mouth I remember letting off on the pressure as I played the fish around the rocks, as they do bury themselves down in them.
I have had a tug of war with a seal with too much drag pressure(I'm guessing 25 lbs or so) and the hooks did not fail, the 65 lb braid broke, or my palomar knot failed, whatever the case, the mustads on that plug did fine holding the bass the seal was stealing.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

i'd outfish both of you blindfolded

Can we be blindfolded too?

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

Uh, I don't know Bruce. I have felt the drag setting you use on the canal, it's the same one the tugboats use to tow barges!

A lighter setting in your book could still tow my fat ass in no problem!

I dunno--the last time I fished with him, I heard the drag clicker going once or twice.

Last time I had a PM from Powers, he told me he had a fish that ripped of f 50 yards from a "meduim" drag setting. I wonder what Jimmy calls, "medium"?

Have you taken the spring out of that thing yet, Slip?

[jettyjockey18]

powers uses 2 drag settings...off and ws (welded shut)...

[libassboy]

I think the 6x may help, but ive seen them open up too, ive never once seen one closed like that pic tho, probably a rock.
Sometimes you just find that fish pull really hard, i dont know if its the bait there on, or the enviorment there in, i went thru like 10 sets of vmc's on a bomber one nite three or four seasons ago, those fish were just going beserk and pulling really hard, not too big either maybe 20lbs.

[DaveS]

Originally Posted by Nebe

how long was your leader slip? once i started using leaders that were 12 to 15 feel long i never bent a hook or ripped out a hook... hook to land ratio was almost 100%

Eben hit the nail on the head As we all know braid has zero stretch, thats good for detecting hits, but sometimes bad for landing them. I believe that once the hook is buried good into the jaw, the lack of stretch can do several things. One, it can wear a hole in their jaw to the point of the hook falling out completley, or it can cause so much strain on the hook that it just plain straightens out due to the pressure.

Think of your line as the shock absorbers on your car or truck. Mono would be a set of nice new shocks, taking the bumps and potholes with ease distributing the ride evenly over the under-carriage of the car, while braided line is a set of bad shocks in a 1978 Ford F-150, you feel every bump and pothole and soon need front end work. Not only do I believe the braided line - no stretch theory causes you to loose fish and straighten hooks, I feel it's the main cause of rods breaking and damaging reels. When monofilament was king, I never broke a rod on a hook set or while fighting a fish, however I have broken 3 rods using braid, and destroyed two 706z's.

Our over-confidence in the braided line's strength leads us to believe that we can just winch our fish in like Superman. I'm gonna try the Yozuri Hybrid line next weekend on my trip to Rhody and see how it behaves.

[DZ]

Treble hooks failing is as old as the books - there isn't a treble hook around that is guarranteed not to straighten or bend when attached to a plug. This is magnified when multiple trebles are used. When a big girl gets hooked on a plug adorned with multiple trebles the force applied to the trebles is tremendous. The trebles tend to work against each other AND the plug itself. I've even had strong trebles bent by "measly" 20 pound fish that were full of piss and vinegar. Add some rockweed to the mix and you'll have a set of "corn on the cob holders" in no time flat.

Straightened treble hooks is the most common cause of many of the cows I've hooked over the years in gaining their freedom (other than me putting them back).

The only consistant way to avoid this problem is by using a plug with one strong SINGLE hook. A small "stubby" needle with a single fethered hook was developed (by Pichney) just for this purpose. Most stubby needles on the market today are built too large - ideal size for this is 3 - 4 inches. Add a fethered hook and the profile is 6-7 inches. This will work fine IF the bass will take them.

Of course sluggos and live/rigged eels will also allow single hook presentations and a greater hookup/land ratio.

But sometimes they want full size plugs and if that's the case you have to put up with occasional straightened trebles. Better to hookup with a bunch and loose a few than to not hook-up at all.

Adding large heavy duty split rings to your plugs will also help on occasion - it will allow your trebles more room to rotate.

DZ