Adhesion Problem

[surfrod]

Having a bad time with the Binz sticking to the linseed.
I've searched the forum quite a bit and found some great information but could not find the answer to the problem.

I'm currently using Poplar, I know Junk Wood.
Plugs are wire thru.

I dip the plug in the 60/40 linseed/spirits. I have tried 1 min up to 1/2 hour for the dunk. I let it drip and wipe off excess.
So far so good.

I let the plugs dry for 5-7 days.
Sand the plug.
then Spray on the Bins ( Red Label )
Let Dry for 2-3 days.
Sand
I then put on Krylon Primer to get a smoother finish.
Then wet spray white Krylon for the base.
Then add what ever colors (wet)
Finally I put on Krylon clear.
Let this dry 2-3 days
Sand
Put on Devcon Epoxy.

Everything should be fine, and it is until I add the factor of water.
I have an obsession the actually use the plugs.

The amount of time to the problem varies from 1 hour to 2 weeks on some plugs.

The first sign of a problem is a crack in the paint, usually on the bottom and near the center gromett.
This gets bigger until water gets in and separates the Bins from the linseed. In all cases the Bins pulls off.
It is so bad that you ca actually peal the bins/paint off with your fingers.

I have included a picture of a Polaris type which shows the cracking and the subsequant bubbling of the paint.
The second photo is a few plugs that are waiting to be destroyed.

Any suggestions/recommendations will be appreciated.

Thanks
Surfrod

[eastendlu]

Don't use linseed oil takes too long to dry IMO. if you can seal with Val Oil if you can get it.I use Bigrocks formula of 1qt tung oil 1qt teak oil 2qt mineral spirits and it dries overnite and ready for prime in the morning.

[Pete F.]

No binz
I dip and do not soak in thinner/boiled linseed mix
I do not wipe
I let dry for a week, about
I spray with whatever cheap rattlecan primer I have
I finish with cheap rattle cans
I spray clear with cheap rattle cans
I do not epoxy
Fish eat them
The paint stays on except where it is abraded thru by hooks or fish

[capesams]

If your using the krylon primer why the need for the bin at all.Try just the k-primer then top coat paint.

or just for fun , one plug only...after the sealer is dry and sanded...put on two coats of krylon clear..let dry..sand..then your k-primer....test and see what happens....it may flunk the dunk or it may work.


if the oil sealer isn't totally dry..your primer will lift off.

[Slipknot]

Think similar materials.

oil sealer + oil primer + oil paint + oil finish coat and you'll have compatibility and better adhesion between coats.


it takes a long time for linseed oil to be dry enough to paint over, I don't like it anymore.
The belly hole is your obvious entry point for water to begin to expand the wood. Poplar will soak it up like a sponge and expand , then it all fails .
try some val oil or tung oil maybe as a sealer and use a better primer

[numbskull]

I use val-oil/mineral spirits 60/40. It dries overnight. I then sand and prime with Zspar marine undercoat (brush on). It dries overnight. I've been happy with that part of my finishing routine....the rest I'm not so sure about. By the way, very nice plugs!

[Tagger]

I think oil sealed over with a hard (SHELL)epoxy is a problem,, if there's any gooyness left when its sealed, it will find its way out .. one way to activate goo is a hot steamy car .. Or another bad, is thinning your val-oil constantly with turps ,, after a while how good is your sealer ?.. I've seen the same thing,, plugs in a hot steamy shed ... I treat my plugs like crap ,,, never rinse ,,, stay in the car ..just to abuse them and see how tough they are .. not satisfied completly with anything yet ...

[eastendlu]

True Eddy i think all of us are looking for that magic elixer and most of the time it turns out to be bannana oil.

[Charleston]

In your original post you state; inseed/primer. Are you using linseed oil or boiled linseed oil in the blend with mineral spirits? It should be boiled linseed oil (BLSO).

Elliminate the coat of Bins and spray your Krylon primer right on the sealer (after it dries). Sand the primer and apply top coats.

[crash]

Well, I tossed two unfished plugs into a jug of water tonight. One was ready to fish, one was in scuffcoat stage. I smashed the scuffcoat one with a hammer to cause a crack and see what happens(had to try out my new trim hammer anyways). I plan on fishing the finished one, so I spared the hammer. Both were needles made of birch and are submerged. I use an untraditional method of sealing and scuffcoating, so I'll let you know how it works. I'll take them out tomorrow. They were both fine after the two hour check.

[Rockfish9]

I've been using the BLO/Binz combo a long time, with both, rattle cans and acrylics,even with Varnish as a top coat, the ONLY time I ever had a problem was when the mixture got too thick and gooey,or when I didnt allow it to dry completly or, I sanded the plug body down to, too ,fine a finish ... smooth plug= low adhesion....

It sound to me,(and I'm just guessin, what the hell do I know) like the sealer, gathered in the belly area and did not cure, I have found that over time, the mineral spirits evaporates from the mixture(in the dunking container) leaving a thicker mix behind that doesnt dry properly, I dump mine as soon as it gets to this stage, I do keep the dunk tank covered tightly when not in use to maximize life of the product...

Next batch, try wiping the plug with pure mineral spirits (allow some drying time) if the plug seems at all gummy,then raise the grain with some 180 grit.....then prime.

I personaly dip my plugs in binz the first coat, quickly brushing off the excess... after an overnight dry, I sand with #220, wipe with a tack cloth and spray with binz, after allowing an overnight dry, I wet sand with #600... the finish is as smooth as silk.. what more can we ask for...

My .02
Roc

[Canalman]

Your problem is water intrusion and wood selection. I've been selling paint for 7 years now and I see these types of problems all the time. That cracking around the belly hole is the first sign of swelling due to water intrusion. When water gets into any wood whether its the exterior walls of a house that wasn't flashed correctly or your plug, it will find it's way out "popping" the paint off in the process. I remember a few years back Mac had a run of plugs that did that, the bottle darters from the 2004 crazy swap. He instructed me to put a spoonful of epoxy into the belly hole and let it run along the thru-wire, it worked.

On the subject of base/finish consistency this is a mis-nomer. Back in the old days of oil this was the preferred sysytem. Now that VOC regs have taken so much out of the oil paint, it's really only an effective base coat (save a few interior apps. like cabinets etc.), the oil primer will penentrate the wood making a strongly bonded base but subsequent coats will not penetrate one another and that's how oil paints form their bond, through penetration. Acrylic paints are formulated to stick therefore, they are a much better choice for going over oils and oil primer/Acylic Latex Topcoat is now the preffered system for any bare wood surface. BIN is not oil based anyway it's Alcohol based.

Solution: Use better wood... ditch the BIN it's stopping the penetration of the oil, use Val Oil for sealer and if you're going to use rattle cans only let them "tack" before applying subsequent coats this way they will become almost like one coat of paint.

[Canalman]

Upon looking at your pic more closely it looks like one layer of the paint is separating from the others. You need to narrow down which coat that is and adress that too.

[PASurfer]

I'm surprised no one suggested this... it appears that you're seating your belly grommet after going through all your other precautions: sealing, sanding, etc. The simple act of driving the flange's lip flush to the lure body breaks your primer/paint "seal" and creates a potential water invasion point. Water gets behind the sleeve and collects under the flange... unless you apply some epoxy to the swivel hole and under the grommet before seating.

[Canalman]

Another good point

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by crash

Well, I tossed two unfished plugs into a jug of water tonight. One was ready to fish, one was in scuffcoat stage. I smashed the scuffcoat one with a hammer to cause a crack and see what happens(had to try out my new trim hammer anyways). I plan on fishing the finished one, so I spared the hammer. Both were needles made of birch and are submerged. I use an untraditional method of sealing and scuffcoating, so I'll let you know how it works. I'll take them out tomorrow. They were both fine after the two hour check.

You kill me Charlie ... Remind me of Mac smashing his plugs with a hammer .. or was it a hatchet ??

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by PASurfer

I'm surprised no one suggested this... it appears that you're seating your belly grommet after going through all your other precautions: sealing, sanding, etc. The simple act of driving the flange's lip flush to the lure body breaks your primer/paint "seal" and creates a potential water invasion point. Water gets behind the sleeve and collects under the flange... unless you apply some epoxy to the swivel hole and under the grommet before seating.

Bingo ,,, bet thats it ,,, always wondered when having a hard time getting a wire through a plug if it was scoring the sealer ... so many variables .

[Slipknot]

poplar is interior wood for reason, it's junk!!!
swells up too much when it gets wet no matter where the intrusion is.
the water in not seeking a way out causing the layers of paint and primer to separate, it'd the expanision, if it were house siding, then the case may be different.

use a better wood

[nightfighter]

poplar =swamp wood

[thefishingfreak]