SHIMANO SUSTAIN REELS

[Swimmer]

The wife asked me what I wanted for Christmas this year and I told her a Shimano Sustain reel would suit me just fine. I have been fishing Penn reels ever since I can remember and started finding I was disatisified in the last few years with them. Normally I wouldn't go this high end. Its just not me, but I couldn't resist when my wife said O.K.
I have a few questions though. Why the huge price difference between the 4000 and the 5000 ($229.00 to $299.00) reels? Why doesn't Simano sell a reel specifically suited to 10 lb. test? The Sustain reels jump from 8 lb. to 12 lb. test. And thats where the price jump comes into play also. Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated. Oh yes, who has the best prices on these reels?

[JohnR]

Hey Frank... Technically, the 5000 and 6000 reels are the same with different spools but they are a larger reel than the 4000. I have the Stradic 4000 and love the reel. Is it as nice as the Sustain? Nope, is it 175 smackers inferior, Nupe..

Now one thing to consider, Shimano frowns upon anyone "advertising" their reels at a discount or anything other than MSRP (guess the suggested doesn't carry much weight). But if you asked a couple of our sponsors if there just might be a S-B member's discount, hehehe. Ya might be able to save a couple bucks.

(Save more, get 2 Stradics, a 4000 & a 6000 for the price of one sustain)

[chubsdad]

sustain 4000 hey frank. i have a sustain 4000 and i love it . this was my second year with it. im going to be getting 2 more next year. i use 10lb and 12lb on it . my fishing partner mike b (aka bass master) has three of them we havent had any major problems with them he uses braided line . no problem caught alot of bass blues and false albs with it yes it has a big price tag but . like the saying goes. you get what you paid for. good luck getting a reel . mike

[Bob Senior]

Frank:

I have 2 Sustain 4000s and a Sustain 6000. The only difference between the 6000 and the 5000 is spool size.

I have used the 4000s for three years with absolutely no problems. The 1-year-6000 is on a 13.5 foot breakaway ultra-lite distance machine w/ 20# Power Pro. I use 10, 20, and 30# Power Pro on the 4000s depending on time of season and which rod it's attached to.

I think they're fantastic reels. I am thinking about sending one of the 4000s, the oldest one, out to get a factory tune-up--it had a couple of busy seasons. But it's working just fine.

I got them because I got sick of field-stripping my Penns every feew weeks, and especially bail snap-back problems. I typically used two 4400s and two 4500s, all of which I have given to grandchildren and sons! Let them wrestle with them!

I had a lot of rats nest problems with the Penns when I switched to braid. I think the braid problems stem from the roller bearing in the bail being bushing mounted rather than bearing mounted like the Sustains. Consequently, the roller turns harder and, with braid, often doesn't turn at all thus creating a twist outside the bail when reeling in. This twist quickly turns into a rats nest on my Penns because most braids have an at least slightly flat profile. Maybe it's only me, but that's what got me to spend the $ for the Sustains and I've never looked back. The braided Power Pro has worked out very well on the Sustains and gives me the sensitivity, capacity, and casting distance I want. Compared to other braids (I've used SpiderWire, FireLine, Cabela's RipCord, and MagiBraid), Power Pro, in my opinion, is far better because (I think) it has a rounder profile--the others are like ribbon--more like mono.

One warning, though: Clean out the Sustains at the end of the season. They can get bunged up pretty well and due to their complexity can get sticky, fast. Mine are outdoors all season from February through December, rain, snow, sleet, shine.

I also use a couple of mid-sized Calcuttas that I also like.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth on Sustains.

If the price bothers you, you might take a look at the Okuma line. They are CHEAP and look and feel really good. I need a smaller (than the Sus 4000) and am thinking about trying an Okuma for about $50. They are beautiful machines. Anyone have one?????

[Bob Senior]

Oh, and Frank, if you have big hands, you might want to try the 4000 on a rod before you buy it. I find it sits closer to the rod than the Penn SSs do--the mounting shaft is a little shorter than the Penns'. this means that if you're using gloves when it's cold, the bail will hit the knuckles on your rod-holding hand; mine hits sometimes even without gloves, but just barely.

The sustains are angled to the rod at 4 degrees whereas the Penn SS reels are not angled at all to the rod. The Penns have a zero degree angle of incidence to the rod. Because of this tiny difference, the line comes off the Sustains evenly on both the top and bottom of the spool, whereas there's more pull on the bottom of the spool and less on the top of a Penn. I think this causes a little distance loss--you can hear this happening when casting with a Penn.

Let's see, that's 2 more cents worth.

[ragfly]

the sustain doesn't have a water proof drag system does it? Do you constantly have to take the drag apart and clean it like on the Penn SS reels? I'm also looking for a new reel next year and have been looking at the sustain. My buddy Bill has the Stardic and he says it doesn't liked to be dunked. Being a surf fisherman that's not the reeel for me.

[Saltheart]

Sustains are beautiful reel. perhaps the smoothest around. They are not made for dunking , just normal use. If you will be submerging you reel a lot , you need something like a Nautil or a VS.

[JohnR]

Never had a problem with my Stradic - but then again, I've never dunked it.

For serious fishing where dunkability happens, I use dem conventionals because I'm one of those stuck up revolving spool types

[ragfly]

Thanks guys, Bill B. and I both bought Nautil 6500 last spring had have had serious problems with the drag. So serious we had new ones given to us by the supplier and then this fall after we both had problems so again they gave us the PRO (yellow). I don't have a report on the PRO yet because Igot it at the end of the season. In all fairness I should say that the supplier I dealt with stood behind the reel 100% and gave us great service. I also don't like the way the bail sticks and you really have to crank it over (brand new). When the reel was working I liked it alot. But to buy another Nautil I don't think so with all the problems we had. The reels don't realy get dunked all the time but occassionally you might have a wave break on you. The VS are nice but from what I read you have to get them factory serviced every year? I not sure what that cost is but I'm sure it is not cheap. Well at least I have some time to decide before next season comes.

[BasicPatrick]

my 2 or 3 pennies,

The Sustain is a beautiful reel, possibly the best all around spinning reel I have ever thrown. However, I do not own one. I do fish two Stradics. The difference between the two is that the finish is a little better on the Sustain, but I love the white body of the Stradic for the look. The other major difference is one ball bearing located in the handle. I have not noticed a difference in performance and as was stated earlier, the cost difference is significant. As far as dunking is concerned, I get the Stradics wet and as long as I rinse them down after and do regular maintenance, I hav not had a problem.

The hjigher end Okumas are unbeleivable when you take in the fact that they are 1/2 the price of the Stradics. I find them close as far as smoothness and other performance issues. I have noticed that they NEED to be rinsed off but I do that anyway.

The VS are great but are so expensive and so heavy they have been taken off my wish list. I will acknowledge that you can not get more waterproof, period. Also they ony come bail less.

I have never used a Nautil.

[Mike P]

Once a year factory service on the VS? Used to be so---now they have a "reccomended service schedule" just like a car, based on "hours of use". So, unless you're a once a week fisherman, count on multiple servicings a season

But, they are serviceable yourself. If you're that serious a fisherman that you're considering paying $300+ for a spinning reel, learning how to service it yourself makes sense. And, a VS is nowhere near as complex inside as a Sustain.

If you're using a Sustain near salt, it has to be serviced at least annually. Most shops are going to hit you $25 or so to get it done.

When you compare VS to "whatever" weight-wise, make sure you're comparing apples to apples. A VS 150 has comparable weight to a Sustain 4000 and holds at least twice as much line. Both the VS 200 and 250 weigh less than the Sustain 5000 and 6000, and again, have over half again greater line capacity. And the VS 300 weighs about 5 ounces less than the biggest Stella.

[Bob Senior]

I haven't had any problems with the drag on any of the Sustains. But I do rinse them with fresh water by hosing them down when they're sticking in my rodholder in the truck. But I've only had the 6000 for this season.

I did have some problems when I greased up the first one I got a little too much. They don't like white lithium grease!!!!

An acetone rinse followed by light Penn reel oil fixed the problem.

Several times, I've dragged mine through the sand and dunked them in the surf to clean the sand off, and have had no problems. But, then again, I rinse them off farily often.

When all I had were Penns, it wasn't unusual to have to strip and clean them after every use during the surf season.

I really like the Sustains. Today I got an Okuma and we'll see if it holds up. It's just the little one.

[Bob Senior]

I got a Penn Prion for a small reel a while back. DON'T GET A PENN PRION!!!

My son tried mine and liked it so he got one too.

One day we were snaking 20 pounders off the bottom at 6-mile reef off Haminassett (sp?) and the bail end housing cracked on both of them within ten minutes of each other. When we took them back to their respoective sellers, we got a trade-in allowance toward new Sustains (that's how I got the second 4000).

Penn has discontinued the Prions, for good reason.

DON'T GET A PENN PRION. They look amazingly like a Sustain from the outside.

[Swimmer]

As usual this is the place for good honst mature feedback on most fishing related products. Thank-you all for the info. And john I will call our sponsors to check their prices.

[StarsnStripers]

A Penn reel with a problem? Wow. ...

[Mike P]

Prions weren't really Penns. They were manufactured for Penn in Japan by Ryobi. The Power Graph spinning reels are also manufactured for Penn in Asia somewhere.

Penn makes some really great reels, but they also have some dogs in the line-up. The SS series spinning reels, especially the 5500 size down, are anti-reverse failures waiting to happen.

[ragfly]

In my previous post I stated I had problems with my drag on the Nautils. It wasn't a drag problem but the gears ratcheting when you reel it. The waterproof drag was the best part on the Nautil.

[JohnR]

Hey Specialist - is that problem that Ragfly talks about - is that the one you have the fix for with locktite?

[thill]

I haven't tried one personally, but Shimano just came out with a "Saltwater" Stradic. $159, but it HAS the bearing everyone screams about, and a waterproof drag.

To tell you honestly, I have had no problems with my "regular" stradic's drags, and mine get soaked regularly.

These reels, should be REEL winners! I'll buy some one day, after my current reels fail.

[mrmacey]

WOW!!!!! $$$$$$$$$ PRETTY REELS DO THEY WORK or just shine!!!!