A different perspective on the Striper Cup...

[bobber]

now- before all of you jump on me- let me say this... I totally repect all of the club/team members of their ability and their sportsmanship in this contest. I have no logiacl "qualms" wiht your participation in the contest; I just want to put this idea out there for people to think about.....


here goes-

If you weren't vying for points (ultimately a victory) would each of you be keeping/killing the bass you weigh in for the tourney?? I know most all of us consider ourselves to be excellent stewards of the sport and the fish we have come to love- so is it worth killing THOUSANDS of pounds of large striped bass just so we have a shot "at the CUP"? I know theres a possiblity of prizes/cash/prestige on the line, but are we really willing to put all of the hard-won gains of this fishes' stock on the line for it?? Recently I read that the conseravtive estimate of the weight of the fish that "scored points" at the end of the year was in the vicnity of 5000 POUNDS of breeding stock bass..... not to mention the ones who were taken/weighed and ended up being "useless" as even bigger fish were in the money.....
season-long tournaments put an EXTREME amount of pressure on our fish that is relentless.... from April till September. with little/no emphasis on releasing "scoreable" fish, they biggest and best fish of each year ARE DOOMED as the best anglers along the coast now are (literally) HUNTING for them DAY IN AND DAY OUT.....

again- I have nothing but respect for you guys in the tournament, and I don't disagree with your "right" to fish in it..... certainly you've proven that you cna fish wiht the best striper guys on the entire coast(!) I just wanted to throw this idea out there for you all to think about..... perhaps to examine your motivations when you fish this year, and consider each (kept) fish a little more carefully.

thanks- Bob

[rockfisherman]

Bob, I am with you on this one. I think the Striper Cup is an ill conceived contest. Let me see if I got this right...you fish all season and kill and register your fish, and then the winner of the boat is a name they draw out of a hat at the beer bash at the end of the season?? Is that about right?

I think The Fisherman Dream Boat contest is much better. Every week you get a listing of the leaders in the "magazine", and if you can't top the leaders and get "on the board", your fish can be released. At the end of the contest, the winner gets drawn from a bin that only has fishermen "on the board". And you don't need to be present to win, unlike On the Water. Also, The Fisherman lets you enter a fish if you subscribe to their magazine. There's no "entry fee" like On the Water charges.

[Mike P]

Do you have any idea what a drop in the biomass bucket 5000 pounds is? Especially considering that a lot of guys fishing the OTW Cup are rod and reel commercials and those fish were going to market anyway.

A commercial can kill 95 bass/week 34" or better. A guy who limits out on a 20# per fish average kills almost a ton a week. One guy. The Mass commercial quota is a hair over a million pounds. 5000 pounds is 1/2 of 1% of what Mass commercials kill year after year, and probably a thousandth of the rec kill in this state alone. (which nobody really knows). A bunch of guys spread over 7 or more states kill 5000 pounds of bass over a 5 month tournament. And in your eyes, that's a slaughter?

And from your post, the part about guys "hunting" big bass day in and day out, I can see that you don't even have a clue about the rules--which allow one entrant to enter only one fish per week, and only count two fish for the tournament towards a club's total.

[Adam_777]

Obviously Mike they weren't aware of the statistics and overall damage that 5000lbs equals to.Not much in the big picture.Who's to say that most of the guys aren't keeping them on ice weighing them in then having bass for dinner.Personally I would.When put in the big picture it's not a slaughter at all.Where's that You tube video of that guy with the truck on the beach pulling his nets.That was a slaughter.

[BigFish]

A. You just have to be registered to win the boat.

B. Commercially licensed fishermen should not be eligible to participate......but we have had this argument before.

C. All valid points Bob but to each his own I say!

I registered the first year and did not last year. I might this year......mostly because I like the pins you get for registering and a shot at winning a boat does not hurt! My plan when I entered the first season was to keep apprised of the standings as the season progressed and if I was lucky enough to catch a fish that might put me in the game......I would make that decision if and when the situation presented itself. I may register this year for the same 2 reasons I did the first year......the plan will be if I catch a trophy and I can release it with no problems......I will do that. If the fish has expired or is in tough shape ie it will not survive....in the box it goes and I will make the most of it.....weigh it in and have dinner! I only keep 2-3 fish in any season so I see no harm there.

PS- They update the website standings weekly....just like the Dream Boat/Fisherman contest.

[bobber]

yeah- now we're TALKIN'..... which is exactly what I wanted to get from the guys in the tourny.

I'm not "against" the tournament.... I just want people to stop and think about their motivations for keeping/killing fish..... and YEAH commercial guys should be excluded (but thats another discussion).

so ask yourself- "If it wasn't for this tournament- would I keep this fish?"

or in other words- how many die-hard catch 'n release guys are now keeping fish they normally would put back in the water?????

no personal attacks here- MikeP I actually do know the rules (I entered myself in the first year...)

just food for thought, thats all.

[inTHERAPY]

all do respect and to each his own. for the life of me i do not understand the reverence paid to a fish. rarely a mention of disagreement with a limit catch of scup, tog, fluke, etc. but 1 bass raises issue! i don't give killing a fish a second thought. Art

[JohnR]

Actually, I appreciate this discussion. The way the rules were initially written, we would not have submitted a team. Over time the rules were tweaked to be better and a lot more conservation minded. As far as Tourneys go, this one got pretty good (at least a lot better) as people spoke here and in many other places, and OTW listened and proved that by significantly reducing the potential amount of fish entered.

Once the rules were changed for the better I asked what those in the forum felt about S-B entering a team. The response was generally positive to enter the tournament.

When we did, we also selectively chose as a group to consider fish of only 30#s or better to weigh in as a team, Sure, we could have weighed in 17#ers but chose not to do so. Persoanlly, I could have entered some decent size fish but did not because of out little side rule and the fact that it likely wouldn't count in the end (and a 29#er from shore does not a 30 make). In a nut shell, I have kept zero extra fish in this tourney than I otherwise would have kept due to my self imposed 30# minimum. I probably kept a couple less fish over the year as I didn't want to drag TWO fish back to the truck (and wifey was a little tweaked that I did not bring home more fillets).

A lot of other clubs are factoring this 30# limit as well in the club tourney.

As for the amount of bass that S-B (or the whole tourney) would weigh in -v- the amount coming in if not for the tourney I don't think is significant. All of Team S-B's fish last year was LESS than the equivalent of a good 3 hour window of fish caught on Narragansett Bay, or ONE commercial Rod & Reeler's take in Mass in ONE day.

Simply put, the weigh-ins for this tourney as it is written now is not significant compared to single events that will happen countless times all over the coast on a multitude of days.

It could be even that with OTW's tightening of the rules that a better appreciation and understanding of Striped Bass conservation may have been made to the masses.

[MartinD18]

Well said, John. Like it or not however, the idea of keeping commercials out of this contest is impossible to enforce, even if that was the stated policy. There is NO WAY at present to tell if a person has a license to sell bass or not - unless he actually sells some, and then only varify-able long after the contest has ended (and the prizes awarded - what is OTW supposed to say? Gimme back the truck?!) when a list of those with commercial licenses may or may not be made available by the state. Think about it.

[BigFish]

The state does not have a list of commercially licensed fishermen? I would think they do and that it is available to the public. If this is so then its just a matter of doing the cross checking to eject the comms from the tourney!

[Circlehook]

Generally, I keep fish that are barely legal, 28" to 30", legal by State standards, but not legal by OTW rules. I would never embarass myself by weighing in a 14 lb bass anyway.

I personally don't eat large bass, as I think smaller bass taste better, BUT, I have enough people asking me for Striper steaks, that If I thought a fish had a chance to add points, it would not go uneaten.

[bobber]

I'm glad that this team fromS-B and others has chosen to choose a "higher path" by only keeping fish greater than 30lbs..... but how many fish less than 40lbs were "in the money" last year (or the year before)?? why not consider making your personal/team threshold 40lbs then??

(I'm gonna look back myself now and see if this is true or not, so don't crucify me for this..... again, I'm just wondering/asking how many fish died just for a "points value" that otherwise woulda lived

[bobber]

OK- I just looked at last years results, and the top 7 fish wer 40lbs or more, with positions 8-10 held by fish 37- to 40 pounds...... so I guess 30 or 35 pounds as a personal/team guideline is pretty reasonable...

[numbskull]

I walk my dog every night. I live near the water. In 2-3 weeks I'll take a rod along and catch schoolies. 2-6 fish most nights. All will be released. Though I like to think otherwise, the best available science indicates 8% of those fish will die. Every one of those fish that die will be miss out on 15 -20 breeding cycles. I have not kept a striper in years, but I kill more than most people. The concern about keeping large fish has some validity only when discussing the "quality" of the fishery. ANYONE WHO LIKES TO FISH KILLS FISH. The less you kill, the better for yourself and others. Since we fish for different reasons it is shortsighted (and egocentric) to assume your reason and related value system is right, and someone else's is wrong.

[Backbeach Jake]

I fish for fun and the table. If I catch a fish that might win something, then I enter it, but it was going to end up on the table anyway. If I worried about the well being of bass, then I wouldn't fish at all.

[BigFish]

I think we all are concerned about the fishery......and most act accordingly. At least I think so? I do not agree with the mortality numbers George gave....I mean how do they really know that 8% of the fish we catch die? Do they follow them around? I mean really! Its just an educated "guess" at best. I catch many fish that you can see they have been caught before....yet there they are...being caught again?

[BassDawg]

hey, bobber!

MikeP is spot on! big fish are gonna be killed, by comm's and rec's and googs. it's just that the tourneys document the kills. there are many a sharpie along the Striper Coast that never a certified scale see, and many BIG Bass that get skinned and filleted-up unbeknownst to fisheries mgmt. i think that fishing tournaments should be the least of your concern, but they are much easier to TARGET since their numbers are more readily available. 5000 lbs is as MikeP said, .5% of the Mass Comm kill per year.

another very GOOD aspect of the Striper Cup is that C&R is encouraged thru the Pounder Pins. you could still enter for those beauties, and they go up to 60#'s, if you so choose bobber.

and i have zero problem killing a big bass for a shot at some VS reels and a 1 in 5 shot at a Toyota Tundra!!! that's a no brainer within the rules and regs of the fisheries mgmt numbers. one striper a week is far less and most guys competing are responsible enuff to know that it takes a big FEESH to compete for the prizes.

[bobber]

all valid points- from everyone. I'm not trying to criticize anyone's values or C'nR practices.... just want those who are gonna participate in the contest to stop (even just for a SECOND) and examine whether or not the REALLY should retain any particular fish this season.....
I realize theres lotsa fish in the sea (so to speak) and many are gonna get caught/killed- tournament or no tourmanment-

just a philosophical aside (as we approach Earth Day?) that I think is worth considering................. I hope you do too.

[BigFish]

Bobber......it sounds as if you have an agenda? (Be it a good one....not being critical) but tell us about your fishing habits?

[Slipknot]

I only eat seal meat

I can't get myself to keep a bass since so many of mine are killed and eaten by those seals.

Numbskull is right

[Back Beach]

Bobber,

Being conscious of your actions and their impact on your surrounds is a positive thing. It’s also important when making the decision to enter or not that you keep things in perspective. With that said, the striper cup’s impact on the fishery is negligible, if non existent at best when you look at the actual landing data as it relates to the fishery as a whole.
As for commercials entering, the skill levels of people possessing a commercial license is as diverse as the non commercial people.
Simply possessing a commercial license doesn’t imply you’re a high liner by any means. No need to exclude them or anyone else.

With the above said I would still keep the large fish, although I release 95% of my fish every year.

[JohnR]

Bobber - I see where you are coming from but I think we have this tournament reasonably figured out to fish in a responsible manner.

The impact that this tournament has is negligible and is far more conservation minded than when it was first unveiled. As far as Tournaments go, the Striper Cup, MDA/MS, and the Derby are my favorites. Unfortunately, these do not allow for safe release of fish.

If anglers didn't lie, there could probably be a Catch & Release tourney of this magnitude. Sadly that day won't come until pigs fly and PETA members start a carnivorous compound.

As well rounded anglers (not speaking of body shape) we should be concerned with the environment, concerned with the species, efficient with our practices, and foster good habits with future generations. If we modify our practices so that they are more conservative than the rules allow for I think we are doing a pretty good job. If we stay mindful of our actions and work with others that ordinarily would not we'll all be the better for it.

Some people are very strict 100% Catch & Release across all classes and I respect that. I'm about 99% C & R. But for those that use "killing fish" to push pure C & R on others should just quit fishing. The most competent anglers, fishing whatever size class, releasing everything, are still going to kill some fish. Facts.

That 8% mortality rate from Diodati's study is a good indicator. It could be even higher in more southern waters. With good ethics and practices, we as anglers can keep those numbers minimal.

If people really wanted to improve the fishery and sizeable fish, effort should be put into protecting the forage fish...

[stripersniper84]

I agree with BOB, i was going to join but for the reason of wasting bass i didn't

[SAUERKRAUT]

I do not like tournaments.
The disastrous commercial fishery, aided and abetted by the Shaefer Cup type meat fishing tournaments of yester- year almost sunk this fishery. Do not you remember the LOUSY fishing of 1983-1989? Even the MV Bass and Bluefish Derby kept stripers out of their derby for three years.

I brag with a night phot, time delay exposure prior to release.
What have you done for your avocation today?

[inTHERAPY]

Bobber, I am curious...How many nice fish a week do you think the"good" fishermen in the tournament catch? I would guess at least 12, most commercials excluded. What do you think their level of effort is? As an individual contestant and team member I can honestly say that weighing in a fish under 40# is not worth the kill. I think most, if not all, contending teams/individuals realize this. What is it about taking a fish that bothers you? In honesty, I think much more about how much bait I go through than stripers I catch. Help me understand where you are coming from.

[nightfighter]

In two years, I haven't even weighed a fish in the tourney, simply because it wouldn't have stood up in the team's top ten... Not doing it for the pins. And regardless, it hasn't affected the number of fish I have chosen to keep. Those that keep beating the "kill" tournaments, as you call them, should spend some time chasing down the white bucket non-American fishermen who keep everything they catch, regardless of size or species..........

[bobber]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

In two years, I haven't even weighed a fish in the tourney, simply because it wouldn't have stood up in the team's top ten.....

this is essentially my point of view..... I'm not criticizing anyone who wants to fish in the tournament. I've stated that over and over. This discussion was meant as an exercize of the mind for the guys in the tournament this year to (hopefully) re-evaluate each fish that is kept solely for its value in the contest. If you wanna keep a fish- thats fine. Enjoy it, have it mounted, whatever..... I'm just hoping its not dying just so it can go on the scales and then discarded/disregarded.

I have no other motives here- really. I'm trying to be more eco-concious (like most of us) and this is just another extension of that sentiment.

[DJ Muller]

The one unspoken variable of Striper Cup bass is the commeraderie (how ever you spell it) factor. It has no worth in terms of money but it does have a lot of value when you have a bunch of guys working towards a common goal. I know for our club the Jersey Shore Surfcasters, it gives us unification and pulls us tight as we work together, I gues you can liken it to guys on Sunday's during football season getting together to watch a favorite team. I believe it is really the essence of the tournament. The fish are counted towards a unified common goal. Fish caught by comm-rec's are fish caught for one thing-profit. (I don't even want to broach that whole subject). I am just saying that the Cup fish have a different value for that reason.

Our club sets a minimum limit on our sizes based on past results, last year we we kept it around 28 pounds but know based on last year and the trend towards bigger fish we may stick it at around 33 pounds just so fish aren't killed in vain. To finish in the top 3 a club will prolly have 4-5 fish over 40, the rest high 30's.
But agian a fishes worth in this case fluctuates b/c it may have more meaning for one of the team members than it would an average Joe.
All in all I release 95% of my bass, the only ones I keep are Cup fish and table fare.
Just my .02.

[Skitterpop]

Fishing is fun and very interesting. Be thankful.

I have some minor issues with the tourney personally but find it overall to be a good thing.

To me its always been about the individual experience of connecting with nature in mysterious ways not generally afforded in the work your life away hum and drum grind.

Hoisting a big trophy and proclaiming that this is what it is all about I cannot agree with but working as a team to obtain a goal while getting to fish is a very good thing imo.

So go get them S-B. com again! You all did a great job this past season!

[inTHERAPY]

Originally Posted by bobber

this is essentially my point of view..... I'm not criticizing anyone who wants to fish in the tournament. I've stated that over and over. This discussion was meant as an exercize of the mind for the guys in the tournament this year to (hopefully) re-evaluate each fish that is kept solely for its value in the contest. If you wanna keep a fish- thats fine. Enjoy it, have it mounted, whatever..... I'm just hoping its not dying just so it can go on the scales and then discarded/disregarded.

I have no other motives here- really. I'm trying to be more eco-concious (like most of us) and this is just another extension of that sentiment.

I now get your point concerning taking fish to weigh and then dumpster. Agreed.