Striped Bass, the condition of the fishery

[inTHERAPY]

This "IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT JAN. 14 2009 – LEGISLATORS WORKING WITH STRIPERS FOREVER HAVE FILED GAME FISH LEGISLATION IN THIS SESSION OF THE MA LEGISLATURE" has caused me to reflect on the condition of our striped bass fishery. I think many of us can agree that the fishery is not what it once was, after restoration. I'm not looking to finger point toward comm. guys, trophy seasons, rec guys, trawlers, environmental factors, etc.
I am wondering "what can be done about it". As long as fishermen are within their legal right to take fish, that fact can not be changed. So, that being said, I guess the fact of the matter comes down to state and federal agencies protecting the fishery for us. How does one go about making a difference?
Please take the time to read the entire attachment by Jim White. Your thoughts are much appreciated. Art

[Flaptail]

This year we saw many fish in the Buzzards Bay fishery with signs of infection. Again though, I think Stripers Forever has missed the point entirely. Stress induced deseases such as Myco bacteriosis have a much more profound effect on the stock if the stock cannot find the nutritional resources it needs to sustain itself, namely forage species such as Menhaden, River Herring, squid, crabs , lobsters and the myriad smaller species such as silversides, sandeels, anchovies and mullet.

Why elevate the bass to gamefish status only to watch it's stock numbers soar then be unable to feed itself? Human populations have demonstrated this is untenable over the centuries. One only has to look to china, India, North Korea and a host of African countries to see what affect over population verses the ability to adeqautely find or produce the staples of life have on a population. Starvation is a hard way to go for any animal including humans or fish.

The report by Capt. White acknowledges assumptions, responsible reporting on any given theory must always rely on fact not assumptive theory. This then leads to groups like Stripers Forever to take this assumptive "model" and spin it to thier cause.

That the fish are under some kind of stress is plainly evident, the cause of it calls for prudent action with solid facts and not rushing to action on a "carpe diem" basis.

The call to action should start in intelligent analysis with all factors considered. The most important factor in this investigation should be the state of the basses forage species. One shouldn't cry wolf without hard data and should do so without assumptions.

[Crafty Angler]

Well said again, Flap...

Whoops, this is how it started the last time....

Relative to legislative actions to protect the fishery, I've almost finished reading Striper Wars - and at this point I think I can say at least the Prologue was accurate for the most part in terms of the basic biology and reproduction cycles...and after that it begins to swirl around the drain at a increasingly faster rate in some of the following chapters.

There are some real leaps of logic in the book regarding conservation that are glaringly obvious to me if you actually know the stories beforehand as well as a number of other important points that Russell either passes over quickly or ignores altogether. You do have to pick and choose through material wisely I guess -

Anyway, from my perspective, Flap has hit it dead on the nuts - fix the forage base first to reduce the stress if you want a more robust stock. And that's a very tall order.

Given the importance of the subject, let's try to keep the discussion gentlemanly and intelligent - while most of us are in the grips of the shack nasties, at the very least, we can agree to disagree.

We've got a good collection of pretty smart guys here at S-B from a lot of different disiplines and backgrounds and perhaps we can come up with an idea for an effective solution beyond what has already been proposed.

[inTHERAPY]

Well put gentlemen. So far so good. I am in no way a proponent for Stripers Forever. That is a totally different discussion. Issues of particular concern are the facts that ASMFC has not acknowledged any health isssue, claiming stocks to be in good health through 2015 (!), and the really low YOY class fish at 3.9. I may be incorrect but isn't the number considered "healthy" 8.0

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by inTHERAPY

Well put gentlemen. So far so good. I am in no way a proponent for Stripers Forever. That is a totally different discussion. Issues of particular concern are the facts that ASMFC has not acknowledged any health isssue, claiming stocks to be in good health through 2015 (!), and the really low YOY class fish at 3.9. I may be incorrect but isn't the number considered "healthy" 8.0

As I recall anything over around 5 is considered good. 8 is very good and those were the kind of numbers that brought the bass back. Recent years have seen very low YOY indexes, but, those fish wouldn't have entered the breeding population yet anyway. ASMFC has said NOTHING about 2015, or any year beyond 2009. All they have said is that the stck is still in good shape as of 2008.

[inTHERAPY]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

As I recall anything over around 5 is considered good. 8 is very good and those were the kind of numbers that brought the bass back. Recent years have seen very low YOY indexes, but, those fish wouldn't have entered the breeding population yet anyway. ASMFC has said NOTHING about 2015, or any year beyond 2009. All they have said is that the stck is still in good shape as of 2008.

The source, Capt. Jim White's article in the RISAA newsletter, Myobacteriosis, paragraph 8, has a quote from ASMFC say SOMETHING about 2015. I have included the article as an attatchment in the first post. have you read it and know that quote to be false. Art

[JohnR]

Couple different tracks with the same total problem - condition of the fishery and stocks.

Closing the commercial fishery is not going to do much to help the stock - just rearranges the deck chairs a little. It is an allocation issue. If you want to reduce pressure on the fish, reduce the take by all parties.

Forage, Pogies FohRevvah! - This is what we need - protect the forage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim White's take on Myco - yes, there are a lot of assumptions. Sadly Fisheries Managements deals a lot in assumptions. Assuming () that things are half as bad as Jim assumes, than we have a problem. This NEEDS to be looked into and factored into the stock assessments.

Sorry, I'm not big on Gamefish Status and I really don't have a dog in that fight. I really think Stripers Forever could do far more good for the Stripers we all want to keep for Forever if they focused their attention on the fish, not who gets to pursue them.

[DZ]

I lived through the "Striper Wars" and found Russells book quite accurate. Here is a posting from his website.

STRIPED BASS IN TROUBLE AGAIN:
WHAT IS TO BE DONE
By #^&#^&#^&#^& Russell
December 13, 2008

The comeback of the Atlantic striped bass has been called the foremost example of a fisheries management success story, proving that if strong enough regulations are put in place, even a fish population in the worst straits can make a dramatic turn-around. As I documented in my book, Striper Wars: An American Fish Story, this was only achieved because of the pressure applied on public officials by fishermen all along the coast. I also warned, however, that this could be all for naught if attention was not paid – and quickly – to a chronic bacterial infection among the Chesapeake Bay’s striper population, a disease that seems to be linked to their not getting enough to eat. The menhaden, their food of choice, is being overfished by a single corporation, Omega Protein, that grinds the little fish up into fish-meal and processes them into fish-oil.

Since my book was published in 2005, the situation has not gotten any better. In fact, all indications this year are that it’s a whole lot worse. The annual index showing how well striped bass have spawned in the Chesapeake is the lowest since 1990, when they were only beginning to emerge from their near-total collapse. At the same time, marine biologists at the Virginia Institute of Marine Science have released a report stating that the mycobacterial infection is a “stress disease” now detected in more than 60 percent of the bay’s stripers and one that ultimately proves fatal. Among their findings, the scientists noted that older females are more likely than males to die from the disease. No surprise, then, that spawning success is way down.

Fishermen in many different locations along the Eastern seaboard are reporting their worst seasons since the dire days of the early 1980s. There is a lack of forage for stripers in New England waters too, where “factory-sized” midwater trawlers are encircling huge schools of herring with nets as big as a football field. Never has the need for an ecosystem-based approach to management been more apparent. Yet the big commercial interests continue to have inordinate influence over the supposed regulators.

In the Chesapeake region, a group of scientists came out in early December to flatly state that the 25-year, $6-billion effort to clean up the bay has been a dismal failure and needs to be completely revamped. A few days later, the federal EPA asked for an exemption to exclude poultry farms from the environmental reporting required of other industries – even though they release pollutants into the air from millions of tons of manure left by their flocks (as much as one-third of the nitrogen fouling the bay waters comes from the air). This is yet another example of the Bush administration’s blatant gutting of environmental laws in its final days.

So what is to be done? In the 1980s, faced with a pollution problem that everyone knew could not be solved overnight, there was only one thing to do: stop the fishing pressure. Moratoriums and no-sale laws went into effect all across the coast. As the striped bass population heads for what may be a second great crash, it’s time to move in that direction again. Already there is no commercial fishing for stripers allowed in Maine, New Hampshire, Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, the District of Columbia and South Carolina, nor in federal waters beyond the three-mile state limit. A bill will soon be pending in the Massachusetts Legislature to follow suit and make striped bass a no-sale gamefish.

I am not someone who enjoys advocating that commercial fishermen be put out of the striped bass business, or denying supermarkets and restauranteurs the right to sell the fish. I’ve resisted calling for this extreme a measure for a long time. But I’m afraid its time has come, coupled with stronger limitations on the millions of recreational anglers who are taking far too many of the big spawning females – and with curtailing the slaughter of tons of baitfish, menhaden and herring. The striped bass has been called the aquatic equivalent of the American bald eagle. We can’t let this most majestic of our fish species once again find itself on the brink of disappearing.

[steve]

This is just ones fisherman's opinion, and certainly in no way scientific, but the state of the striped bass is in trouble, I think. I have been chasing striped bass almost 36 years now but for the past 5 or 6 years I have noticed a dramatic decline of the numbers of stripers I have encountered . During that period I have fished,in the surf, about the same number of times( 85 to 110 trips) and in the same places with exception of last season. In '08, I could not fish every location I generally do because of a physiscal problem, however, I did manage about 86 trips in alot of good striper holes.. Anyway, during the last few seasons I have landed approx. 150 to 250 bass. Previous to that, I would routinely catch that many by the end of May, and by the end of each season, catch and release anywhere from 600 to 800 bass. What is very disturbing is the lack of small fish, the schoolies. Save for the early to mid spring, I have not seen any numbers of this size fish for the rest of the season. The" Fabulous Falls " have been almost non existent over the last 5 to 6 years. School sized fish could even be counted on even in the so-called bad years before the moratorium. I don't know where they are now! Yes, ther are alot of big fish around for some, just like the late 70's and early 80's but look what happened back then! Moreover, talk to bass fisherman from Maine. Their season was an all out bust in '08. Charter Captains gave up the ghost and went smallmouth bass fishing I'm told. Something is wrong and as others have said, we need to get all the data we can and make some intelligent decisions, soon.

[JFigliuolo]

What really gets my nuts in a vice (and I'm not singling anyone out) is guys that in one thread (not necessarily this one) say the bass are in trouble... Yet post pictures of BIG dead bass they kill for a contest or sale...

I keep fish to eat, don't get me wrong. But if YOU think there is a problem how about changing YOUR actions as a first step.

-putting on my asbestos suit.

[steve]

Jay, you are correct. I do release everything, almost everything. It is sometimes very tough to release a big, big fish for alot of reasons, mostly self serving. I guess we all have to learn to put back, no matter what the cost. I released several large fish this year and it felt good.

[Sea Flat]

I too have read "Striper Wars". This was a very informative book.

It seams as though we are in agreement that the Striped Bass population is in danger. It also seams like most of us can also acknowledge that the bait fish being scarce is a huge problem as well. Striped Bass, in addition to menhaden, mackerel, squid, herring etc. need to have some stricter laws guarding them to keep the fishery on the East Coast safe IMO.

Finally, let's not bad mouth a well intentioned group like Stripers Forever. They work so hard and put tons of time in to protecting the fish we so dearly love. Is it possible that they are missing a couple pieces in their argument? Sure. But, I also consider them to be smart individuals that probably know some information that we don't. For example, if it would be smart to lump the striped bass in with all of the bait fish to be protected. It probably needs to happen one step at a time. First the bass, then the bait. Definitely an argument can be made for doing it the other way around, but either way at least they are out there fighting the good fight. And for that I say to Stripers Forever.

[inTHERAPY]

Originally Posted by JFigliuolo

What really gets my nuts in a vice (and I'm not singling anyone out) is guys that in one thread (not necessarily this one) say the bass are in trouble... Yet post pictures of BIG dead bass they kill for a contest or sale...

I keep fish to eat, don't get me wrong. But if YOU think there is a problem how about changing YOUR actions as a first step.

-putting on my asbestos suit.

J, I agree that change will have to start at home. Problem being that as long as every angler is within their legal right to take an amount of fish, the amount of fish taken is not going to change. I do not think anglers are going to take less fish.
As of last year, I started to commercial bass fish in earnest. I will continue to do so this year. Please do not interpret the fact that as a commercial fisherman (albeit very part time) that I am not conservation minded. I think many comms are like myself. If the comm catch is quota based, that quota will be filled by someone.
I think, as many others do, that the fishery is in trouble, but we do not get that impression from the Managers of the resource. Therefore, what isn't broken doesn't need to be fixed.
The ASMFC has a meeting scheduled for early Feb. It is important to me to see what comes from the striped bass board and menhaden board in particular. Art

[RIROCKHOUND]

Either 1 fish @36"
OR a slot limit like Maine coast wide.
1 @ either 20-26" or over 40" NO more 2 fish...
Fix the forage (which does not mean ban ALL menhaden fishing)
Tighter regulations on pirates/poachers.

[JohnR]

Sea Flat - I don't want to seem like I'm bad mouthing them, i'm sure they are smart people. I do ZERO commercial fishing and I am not an advocate of Commercial fishing - I'm neutral to it. I think the problem with the fish is a combination of pressure and more importantly, habitat/forage. What is going to fix the fish? Stopping Commercial fishing specifically for Striped Bass? Or fixing the Habitat and Forage?

I'm willing to bet the latter. For all of Striper Forever's ability to unite a tremendous amount of anglers, I would truly applaud them if they were able to do it more in the interest of the fish ~ Forage & Habitat ~ than who gets to fish for them. Deciding who gets to fish for them is kind of like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, it does little to save the fish. Now if Stripers Forever was calling for a 35% reduction (arbitrary number) of fishing pressure by both Commercial AND Recreational fishers, AND making significant inroads to protecting FORAGE, I would be impressed. Otherwise it smells like is a grab that does not address the core issues, total fishing pressure AND habitat/forage protection.

BTW - good thread Art...

Until that happens - in my opinion and until others can change my thinking - Stripers Forever is missing squandering their tremendous potential...

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Tighter regulations on pirates/poachers.

This is one that I strongly agree with. Everyone still remember the news article from a few weeks ago - $500 fine for a few tons of bass, and the third offense that week alone.

When I'm at the canal, I appreciate that the Rangers drive up and down checking people's catch, pulling the measuring tape out. Even still, you find people keeping shorts all the time at the canal. It's certainly impossible to catch everyone, but how about we make it really bad for the ones that are caught. At the very least, "You have 3 shorts in your cooler, and this is not your first offense... Thanks for the pickup truck and nice fishing gear."

Some people might say that fines would be ineffective because some people keeping shorts may be poor. Fine, take all of their gear and every piece of fishing equipment in their truck.

[Back Beach]

Lots of good points. Often times, we equate the quality of fishing with what we experience personally. This may or may not be representative of the big picture.

On one hand, you have to buy into and trust the managers judgement to a degree. Many of them are responsible for the great fishery we have right now. Yes, it seems there may be a few less fish, but I also believe its a distribution thing. Fish show in different places in different quantities each year. This is one of the things that supports the landings as a % of total biomass method of managing the population.
My last point/question is this.....how many(stripers) fish should there be in the ocean? Do we need to walk on the backs of 50# fish? Keep in mind populations of fish and wildlife will fluctuate even without harvest. What is the true definition of a healthy population?

[RIJIMMY]

Flap and Crafty, I am ignorant to this whole subject and really rely on what educated people say on the topic, however I don't understand the fix the bait logic. I guess I see tons of bait. Menhaden have made a major comeback, we've had some massive squid runs over the last 5 yrs or so. What issues do you see with the bait? I think nature has a way of fisinxg that. If the amounts of the striped bass were to suddenly increase, wouldnt they just seek new species to forage on? Theres plenty od snapper blues, crabs, etc?
Not arguing, just done understand the logic.
If I was king for a day, I'd make a 1 fish limit and no commercial. Selfishly just so there are more fish to catch for me. I dont understand the science

[bill huki]

You can trust the govt and thier scientists. Before you do go to fisheries meetings for a few years. Look the people sitting at the tables in front in the eye and make a judgement.

Consider how the country has done the past 8 years with the experts in charge.

Just food for thought.

[FishermanTim]

I believe the forage / baitfish issue is not just for the northeast, but the entire eastern seaboard. If the fish spawning down south are starving due to overfishing for menhaden, it will directly affect the future stock of fish that will eventually migrate here each spring.
Underfed, weak and diseased fish will drop out of the spawning cycle, decreasing the YOY each season.

I agree that just (over)regulating the striper catches isn't going to fix the stocks overall health. Something needs to be done to keep the menhaden, herring, squid and other baitfish IN THE BASS'S LIFECYCLE and not on our grocery/baitshop shelves.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

Why elevate the bass to gamefish status only to watch it's stock numbers soar then be unable to feed itself?

May I also add that with those increased numbers, their predators(seals) will flourish even more by chowing on more bass than they already do now, and why is that? because seals have been given free reign gamefish status, no I mean protection. We will be eating seals soon, because that's all that's left

[MikeToole]

Having fished for stripers for over 45-years and doing about 100 trips a season I have experienced about the same results as Steve put in his post. Being at the northern end of the stripers range I think we may see issue before others. Over the last six years I've seen a real decrease in the number of fish. Last season there were more bigger fish then I've seen in any season but the drop in the number of small fish was scary. This is about the same as I saw in New Jersey when I lived there just before the stock collapse.

Unlike others I am a strong supporter of making stripers a game fish. The reason mainly is how do you convince fisherman to let stripers go when others are catching them for money. It is a standard reason I here from people who keep every legal fish they catch. Also from an economic stand point and human standpoint the most important group in the quest for stripers is the recreational fisherman. The money coming from the sale of stripers is nothing compared to the money spent by recreational fisherman. Plus, if you made stripers a game fish then I think more people would be open to stricter limits.

It is often said that the striper recovery shows what good management can do. To me the recovery should be looked at a miracle. If that large young of the year class had not come out of no where the recovery either never would have happened or it would have been much slower. Just look at what is happening up on the grand banks with cod.

[Justfishin']

I've been saying the same damn thing since I joined the site seven years ago-and I've been jumped on for it. But I don't care. Monitor and regulate the forage base throughout the gamefishes range. Limit the comm. fishing to people who fish for a living, not weekend warriors who want to make a quick buck yo-yoing. And, like it or not, we probably need to have a recreational licensing program to help pay for monitoring the increasing number of anglers.(and poachers)

[MAKAI]

Gotta admit human involvement is all over this problem. Pollution,big buisness, commercials and recs. We all have our hands in the pie. Personally I blame it all on the seals, including the economy,Iraq,liberals,etc.

[Back Beach]

Anecdotally speaking here, but starvation is about the last culprit I would suspect right now. In fact I saw more well fed fish in 2008 than I've seen in 20 plus years of fishing. Probably the abundance of bunker I would guess.

[MAKAI]

Not where we used to fish Mike. Most were pretty lean. However when trolling squid bars with mark out on stellwagon, very fat fish would come up into the spread, good eats out there I suppose. Some of my best bass were caught on the 130's, shame.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Anecdotally speaking here, but starvation is about the last culprit I would suspect right now. In fact I saw more well fed fish in 2008 than I've seen in 20 plus years of fishing. Probably the abundance of bunker I would guess.

Good point, Mike. Often times, we equate the quality of fish with what we experience personally. This may or may not be representative of the big picture. paraphrasing you a little

[CaptMike]

I don't know if gamefish status is the answer but I wouldn't mind it to be honest. Managing the menhaden will definitely help but killing fewer bass is the surest way to increase the population. Whether this is done by cutting back the rec or comm amount taken is academic it just needs to be done. I imagine the easiest way would be to cut back both, this way neither side feels shortchanged. Other steps to manage the chesapeake as well as forage also need to be taken but I think as far as Striped Bass are concerned killing fewer of them is the first and surest way to help them.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Not where we used to fish Mike. Most were pretty lean. However when trolling squid bars with mark out on stellwagon, very fat fish would come up into the spread, good eats out there I suppose. Some of my best bass were caught on the 130's, shame.

Bob, it seems like they were always skinny out there now that you mention it. I can't count the number of 50" fish I caught that didn't break the 40# mark. Lots of times they had skates/lobsters in them too.
I don't fish out there anymore, but the canal/buzzards bay vicinity fish were well fed this year.

[maddmatt]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

May I also add that with those increased numbers, their predators(seals) will flourish even more by chowing on more bass than they already do now, and why is that? because seals have been given free reign gamefish status, no I mean protection. We will be eating seals soon, because that's all that's left

seal tastes good.... boilem , mashem, put them in a stew.