Calling ALL Anglers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[BassDawg]

who wish to listen or to be heard

Stripers Forever is hosting several elected officials~~~
8:00 am on the morning of the 5th, this Tuesday,
at The Winthrop Yacht Club @ Cottage Cove in Winthrop, MA.

it will be an open discussion about the Senate Bill before the MA Legislature that concerns enacting a slot, gamefish status, and a 1/day limit on our beloved Striped Bass. a decent showing of surfcasters will go a long way towards opening eyes and ears to the necessities of taking care of forage, species, and estuaries.

just as Ducks Unlimited is about the marshlands, Trouts Unlimited is about fixing the sweetwater, Stripers Forever must begin somewhere in order to salvage our bays and estuarine systems that are extremely vital to our immediate recreational pursuits and to the long life of our majestic shores for the generations that follow ours.

if you have the time and are available, whether or not you agree with the Bill, this will be an occasion to at least find out more about it and to put some faces to the names of the pols whom will be directly involved/voting upon this VERY IMPORTANT piece of parchment that WILL IMPACT the ways in which we fish for stripers.

just a heads up, as i know too well that the "issue at hand" has many facets and years of work to truly make a positive difference. i hope that ALL that can, will attend, and that you will do so with open minds and questions at the ready!!!

[davisd]

Why do we need to use the "Striper" to clean up our bays and rivers? The feds have this covered?

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by davisd

Why do we need to use the "Striper" to clean up our bays and rivers? The feds have this covered?

Can you imagine a non-profit conservation organization named Marshlands Unlimited, or Streams Unlimited, or Estuaries Unlimited, or Bunker/Herring/Sand Eels Unlimited??? it just wouldn't fly, as sadly, most people could give a rat's arse for water or forage. now, you put a species name that we know and love in there and you've got something.

Ducks Unlimited has saved many marshlands and nunmerous habitats for that species of fowl and others in its decades of operation and it has been 85%+ driven by its membership of hunters and NRA associates. Trout Unlimited has realized the same types of victories for our streams and rivers across America in an effort to preserve their "named" species ~~by taking care of where they swim and spawn, as well as informing the public and its member anglers about regulatory limits that have effected positive change to the betterment of both fish and water.

if ya think that the FEDS have our estaurine systems covered, i would ask you to look again, my friend.

the Peugot Sound Orcas, the multiplying dead zones of the Chesapeake Bay, the increasing pcb counts that lace the Hudson River, and the diseased Stripers of the Outer Banks would beg to differ with you on the current biostasis of their respective waters. and these are only our inshore haunts, fogeddah bout the ways in which the EPA got handcuffed by the Reagan Administration with regard to our oceans ~~along with our estuaries!!!

somethin's got to GIVE, we need to begin somewheres~~~and, imho, 20 years ago WAS too late. hopefully, some proactive measures will move us forward and our current administration will hear the cries of the phd's/professionals/peoples concerning the myriad of issues that face the health and welfare of our estuaries and the marine life that calls them HOME. problem is, there aren't enough of us speaking up yet, and his plate is mighty full with the Economy,,,,,,,rightly so, yet it would be nice to see some STEPS in the right directions from the EPA, big industry in Seattle, Purdue/Tyson along the CHSPKE, and Omega Protein outta the OBX.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by BassDawg

the Peugot Sound Orcas, the multiplying dead zones of the Chesapeake Bay, the increasing pcb counts that lace the Hudson River, and the diseased Stripers of the Outer Banks would beg to differ with you on the current biostasis of their respective waters. and these are only our inshore haunts, fogeddah bout the ways in which the EPA got handcuffed by the Reagan Administration with regard to our oceans ~~along with our estuaries!!!

Sounds like someone has swallowed someone else's crap hook line and sinker! What do pacific whales have to do with striped bass? There are no dead zones in the Chessie, they stopped dumping PCBs in the Hudson 30 years ago, No one knows what is causing the myobacterial infection in striped bass but they do know it happen in the Chessie, not off North Carolina. Would you like a cookie with that koolaide?

[RIROCKHOUND]

SF gets another one...

[Van]

Maybe not touching fish in the mid size (26-40) class is good for reproduction of the species. BUT........allowing taking of fish from 20-26 makes no sense at all. There will be no fish growing to the mid size class if schoolies are fair game.... JMHO.....

[GonnaCatchABig1]

Originally Posted by Van

Maybe not touching fish in the mid size (26-40) class is good for reproduction of the species. BUT........allowing taking of fish from 20-26 makes no sense at all. There will be no fish growing to the mid size class if schoolies are fair game.... JMHO.....

wellll the theory behind it is that the larger mid sized fish will out produce the amounts being caught. i dunno the exact number but lets say.. those 26's would lay 1mil eggs each. and the 35-40's would lay 3 or 4mil each. as you can see keeping 1 or 2 larger fish makes a much bigger impact on the amount of eggs laid.

will it be easier to catch keepable fish? yes. but it if ends up saving thousands of larger fish, it ends up saving 3-4 bililon possibly even more fish for the next season (not taking into account survival rates of fry ofcourse) which then a few years down the line will be of that keepable size. but there will be so many more of them that more will be able to pass into that protected size range than what currently is there. and then the process repeats with even greater numbers of fish.

thats the theory. but i can foresee the second the schoolies numbers increase they will go right back to the current method instead of sticking with it. and the cycle will start all over again.

[bobber]

I think a slot IS a GOOD idea..... Maine has had it for years. The redfish slot In FLA is certainly helping the fishery recover, as is the sturgeon slot in Oregon....

don't knock till ya try it. and NO, I don't belong to SF- my heart says they are well-inteded and have all of our best interests in mid, but the politically-realistic and logically-fair side of me says they are just trying to keep the bass for (us) recs, to the exclusion of the comm/charter guys (just doesn't seem right in a purely "fair" sense)

[Flaptail]

Filet and release is the only way to go!

[Rip Runner]

Ducks Unlimited and Stripers Forever are much different organizations and please don't compare the two. Stipers forever has thier own agenda and one that I personally don't agree with, but it is a free country. I really wish you would focus your attention to Stripper's Forever, I think you would get a much better response.

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by Rip Runner

Ducks Unlimited and Stripers Forever are much different organizations and please don't compare the two. Stipers forever has thier own agenda and one that I personally don't agree with, but it is a free country. I really wish you would focus your attention to Stripper's Forever, I think you would get a much better response.

I would not say they are that different. The "More Game Birds Foundation" was the founding group for DU. There focus was to increase the numbers of birds for recreational hunting. Since commerical duck hunting was already outlawed, they did not have to get involved in that fight. When DU formed it's focus was preservation of wetlands but they also got very involved in duck hunting regulation. Their major focus is protection of the birds to ensure an on going hunting opportunity.

What DU has shown is that the recreational harvest of migratory birds has a far greater economic impact then commerical hunting could ever have hope to have achieved. That the recreational hunter is willing to spend money and support bag limits to protect a resource managed for them.

Maybe if the recreational fishermen would get their act together they would have a much larger voice in fishery regulations. Stripers Forever has it's faults but I think they are on the right track. Maybe in the end SF and the RFA will evolve into a DU type group.

To stem the shots. I grew up around commerical fisherman and I've fished for almost 50-years. I don't have a problem with commerical fishing but I do not believe they deserve any special protection or are owed anything. Fish should be managed in the best interest of the people from both an economic and human standpoint. Fish like stripers and fluke have a special value to the recreational fishermen from both standpoint and should be managed to the max for this purpose in my opinion.

[big jay]

Will someone at this meeting explain how eliminating the commercial fishery and hamstringing the charter industry will CREATE 14,400 jobs?

If so, I would gladly listen with an open mind.

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by big jay

Will someone at this meeting explain how eliminating the commercial fishery and hamstringing the charter industry will CREATE 14,400 jobs?

If so, I would gladly listen with an open mind.

I guess I don't see making stripers a game fish hurting the charter boat people that much. May stop some from picking up some extra money commerical fishing but it may actually help them in the end.

Looking at the low end of the estimates there are at least a million people who fish for stripers at least once a year. Turn that into jobs to support needed tackle, bait, motel rooms, food service, charters, party boats, boatyard help, and so on I think that makes more jobs then having a commercial fishery.

The main thing is I think if we keep our present path we risk losing all of those jobs. From 1960 through 1974 the commercial catch averaged about 10 million pounds a year. From 86 - 89 it averaged about 350K. How did that work for everyone.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

Looking at the low end of the estimates there are at least a million people who fish for stripers at least once a year. Turn that into jobs to support needed tackle, bait, motel rooms, food service, charters, party boats, boatyard help, and so on I think that makes more jobs then having a commercial fishery.

How does it create jobs if those 1Mil people are already fishing for stripers at least once a year??? Is it suddenly going to be 2mil? then bass have even more to worry about....

I don't trust any organization that 1-sided, but SF is on my scares me list...

1 fish 36"
Period.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by GonnaCatchABig1

wellll the theory behind it is that the larger mid sized fish will out produce the amounts being caught. i dunno the exact number but lets say.. those 26's would lay 1mil eggs each. and the 35-40's would lay 3 or 4mil each. as you can see keeping 1 or 2 larger fish makes a much bigger impact on the amount of eggs laid.

will it be easier to catch keepable fish? yes. but it if ends up saving thousands of larger fish, it ends up saving 3-4 bililon possibly even more fish for the next season (not taking into account survival rates of fry ofcourse) which then a few years down the line will be of that keepable size. but there will be so many more of them that more will be able to pass into that protected size range than what currently is there. and then the process repeats with even greater numbers of fish.

thats the theory. but i can foresee the second the schoolies numbers increase they will go right back to the current method instead of sticking with it. and the cycle will start all over again.

Big problem with that theory is that the 26 inch fish produces ZERO eggs, so wind up killing fish that haven't even spawned once yet.

[JohnR]

One fish, or a slot. Either way, cut back Rec AND commercial take by 30% (PS VAN - if your slot allows for taking of smaller fish than you increase your take on males, thus protecting more females).

I just can't get behind SF

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

How does it create jobs if those 1Mil people are already fishing for stripers at least once a year??? Is it suddenly going to be 2mil? then bass have even more to worry about....

I don't trust any organization that 1-sided, but SF is on my scares me list...

1 fish 36"
Period.

My thoughts exactly. Wouldn't you need to exponentially increase the numbers of people fishing for stripers to increase the jobs related to striper fishing? If that many more people are fishing, more released fish will be dying due to normal c&r mortality.

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

How does it create jobs if those 1Mil people are already fishing for stripers at least once a year??? Is it suddenly going to be 2mil? then bass have even more to worry about....

I don't trust any organization that 1-sided, but SF is on my scares me list...

1 fish 36"
Period.

Do you trust ASMFC to do the job. I will be very surprised if they don't increase the commercial quota by 25% soon. It was a tie vote at the last meeting but there are more states that allow commerical fishing then don't, so it is just a matter of time. If you look at the last meeting minutes the commercial interest were saying 50% increase would be reasonable.

Even if the commercial quota is increased to 10 million pound how many jobs do you think that really leads to. A good percentage of the commercial catch comes from people who are really not commercial fisherman, there picking up a few bucks to pay for gas or their boat. From a full time stand point this catch would be lucky if it created 500 jobs total.

I agree that we should reduce the limit for recreational fisherman. The purpose of the slot limit is mainly to add male fish to the catch since they usually don't go above 30". Once we get the license system in place I would like to see a 1 fish slot and when you get your license you get two trophy tags for fish over 40". Or something like that.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Nope, I don't entirely trust ASMFC;

you still didn't answer my question.....
"How does it create jobs if those 1Mil people are already fishing for stripers at least once a year??? Is it suddenly going to be 2mil? then bass have even more to worry about...."

I didn't ask how many jobs the commercial industry produces, HOW does it INCREASE jobs?

And, for the record, I would have ZERO problem with making it full-time commercial only for Bass!

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

you still didn't answer my question.....
"How does it create jobs if those 1Mil people are already fishing for stripers at least once a year??? Is it suddenly going to be 2mil? then bass have even more to worry about...."

I didn't ask how many jobs the commercial industry produces, HOW does it INCREASE jobs?

My error, I thought you were indicating in your earlier post that we would lose 14,400 jobs from the commercial and charter groups if stripers were made a game fish. That you were asking how we would make up for this. I missed that you were referring to the 14,000 number put out at the SF symposium. No, I can not show how this job increase would occur without creating other problems. But when your talking about a million people, for every 10 dollars more you get them to spend you create about 200 jobs.

My focus is not supporting Stripers Forever, I just support game fish status.

[snake slinger]

[QUOTE=Van;686430]Maybe not touching fish in the mid size (26-40) class is good for reproduction of the species. BUT........allowing taking of fish from 20-26 makes no sense at all. There will be no fish growing to the mid size class if schoolies are fair game.... JMHO.....

the bag limit on bass should be 1 fish 40 inches and up per day and close comm.

[Finaddict]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

How does it create jobs if those 1Mil people are already fishing for stripers at least once a year??? Is it suddenly going to be 2mil? then bass have even more to worry about....

I don't trust any organization that 1-sided, but SF is on my scares me list...

1 fish 36"
Period.

yes - 1 fish at 36 inches ... it works

[big jay]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

My error, I thought you were indicating in your earlier post that we would lose 14,400 jobs from the commercial and charter groups if stripers were made a game fish. That you were asking how we would make up for this. I missed that you were referring to the 14,000 number put out at the SF symposium. No, I can not show how this job increase would occur without creating other problems. But when your talking about a million people, for every 10 dollars more you get them to spend you create about 200 jobs.

My focus is not supporting Stripers Forever, I just support game fish status.

Mike - that was my point -- one of the cornerstones of the SF push is that this will [I]create[I] jobs - a point I wholeheartedly disagree with.

As for its effect on the Charter Industry -- why not ask the 3 large Charter Associations in Mass -- Cape Cod, Stellwagon Bank, and North Shore, how they think this could effect their business? I think you would get a better answer there than just guessing.

Lastly, in regard to trusting ASFMC -- Do you really trust the Massachusetts State Assembly to govern your fisheries????

This is opening Pandora's Box -- just wait till the Ocean Conservancy, Pew Charitable Trusts, PETA, and The Humane Society start proposing legislation promoting their own Agendas. They are a heck of alot better backed than SF, and their agendas make the SF guys look like fishkillers.