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Old 08-13-2009, 01:29 PM   #1
RIROCKHOUND
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Deep end

Wherever it is, Sarah found it...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200...FocGFsaW5kbw--

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:47 PM   #2
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most americans, whether right or wrong agree with her.
The majority DOES not support O's plans for the reason Sarah baby states.

*not saying I agree

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Old 08-13-2009, 01:53 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
most americans, whether right or wrong agree with her.
That's nonsense. She's simply making stuff up, or intentionally manipulating the facts.

Opposing the progressive proposal doesn't mean you're on the same side as Palin and her fantasies. This is just more "with us or against us" rhetoric intended to divide...and why Palin will never be a real leader.

-spence
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by spence View Post
That's nonsense. She's simply making stuff up, or intentionally manipulating the facts.

Opposing the progressive proposal doesn't mean you're on the same side as Palin and her fantasies. This is just more "with us or against us" rhetoric intended to divide...and why Palin will never be a real leader.

-spence
no no, I said nothing about sides. but if you look at what concerns people are voicing, they are in line with Palin's comments.

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Old 08-13-2009, 03:11 PM   #5
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they are in line with Palin's comments.
So I assume you are not saying anything about the merit or validity of her comments?

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:23 PM   #6
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but if you look at what concerns people are voicing, they are in line with Palin's comments.
That's only because some people are so gullible to believe anything they hear. It doesn't mean they are making her remarks any more substantial...

And to Bryan's other point, her use of Trig and our Troops in trying to guild trip people is downright shameful.

-spence
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by spence View Post

And to Bryan's other point, her use of Trig and our Troops in trying to guild trip people is downright shameful.

-spence
like Obama using that 11 year old girl in his mock town hall meeting the other day?

I'm guessing Palin's constituents have fared far better from her leadership than the poor suckers of Obama's old congressional district under his "leadership"...he's doing for America what he did for them....
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by spence View Post
That's nonsense. She's simply making stuff up, or intentionally manipulating the facts.

-spence
Obama needs a teleprompter

Palin does not...



Sarah Palin: Concerning the "Death Panels"Sarah Palin's Notes
Concerning the "Death Panels"
Wed at 8:55pm
Yesterday President Obama responded to my statement that Democratic health care proposals would lead to rationed care; that the sick, the elderly, and the disabled would suffer the most under such rationing; and that under such a system these “unproductive” members of society could face the prospect of government bureaucrats determining whether they deserve health care.

The President made light of these concerns. He said:

“Let me just be specific about some things that I’ve been hearing lately that we just need to dispose of here. The rumor that’s been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of Representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma because we’ve decided that we don’t, it’s too expensive to let her live anymore....It turns out that I guess this arose out of a provision in one of the House bills that allowed Medicare to reimburse people for consultations about end-of-life care, setting up living wills, the availability of hospice, etc. So the intention of the members of Congress was to give people more information so that they could handle issues of end-of-life care when they’re ready on their own terms. It wasn’t forcing anybody to do anything.” [1]

The provision that President Obama refers to is Section 1233 of HR 3200, entitled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.” [2] With all due respect, it’s misleading for the President to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients. The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context.

Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]

Now put this in context. These consultations are authorized whenever a Medicare recipient’s health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home, and they are part of a bill whose stated purpose is “to reduce the growth in health care spending.” [5] Is it any wonder that senior citizens might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care? As Charles Lane notes in the Washington Post, Section 1233 “addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones.... If it’s all about obviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to “bend the curve” on health-care costs?” [6]

As Lane also points out:

Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren’t quite “purely voluntary,” as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, “purely voluntary” means “not unless the patient requests one.” Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive -- money -- to do so. Indeed, that’s an incentive to insist.

Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they’re in the meeting, the bill does permit “formulation” of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would “place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign,” I don’t think he’s being realistic. [7]

Even columnist Eugene Robinson, a self-described “true believer” who “will almost certainly support” “whatever reform package finally emerges”, agrees that “If the government says it has to control health-care costs and then offers to pay doctors to give advice about hospice care, citizens are not delusional to conclude that the goal is to reduce end-of-life spending.” [8]

So are these usually friendly pundits wrong? Is this all just a “rumor” to be “disposed of”, as President Obama says? Not according to Democratic New York State Senator Ruben Diaz, Chairman of the New York State Senate Aging Committee, who writes:

Section 1233 of House Resolution 3200 puts our senior citizens on a slippery slope and may diminish respect for the inherent dignity of each of their lives.... It is egregious to consider that any senior citizen ... should be placed in a situation where he or she would feel pressured to save the government money by dying a little sooner than he or she otherwise would, be required to be counseled about the supposed benefits of killing oneself, or be encouraged to sign any end of life directives that they would not otherwise sign. [9]

Of course, it’s not just this one provision that presents a problem. My original comments concerned statements made by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor to President Obama and the brother of the President’s chief of staff. Dr. Emanuel has written that some medical services should not be guaranteed to those “who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens....An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.” [10] Dr. Emanuel has also advocated basing medical decisions on a system which “produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.” [11]

President Obama can try to gloss over the effects of government authorized end-of-life consultations, but the views of one of his top health care advisors are clear enough. It’s all just more evidence that the Democratic legislative proposals will lead to health care rationing, and more evidence that the top-down plans of government bureaucrats will never result in real health care reform.

- Sarah Palin

[1] See http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...entations.html.
[2] See http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/1...ext-071409.pdf
[3] See HR 3200 sec. 1233 (hhh)(1); Sec. 1233 (hhh)(3)(B)(1), above.
[4] See HR 3200 sec. 1233 (hhh)(1)(E), above.
[5] See http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/1...ext-071409.pdf
[6] See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...80703043.html].
[7] Id.
[8] See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...81002455.html].
[9] See http://www.nysenate.gov/press-releas...n-1233-hr-3200.
[10] See http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Where_Civic...cracy_Meet.pdf
[11] See http://www.scribd.com/doc/18280675/P...-Interventions.
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:52 PM   #9
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There's alot of mistruths, made up stuff and nonfacts coming from both sides from Obama down. Funny you jump all over Palin to obscure whats really going on. She's just the lefts Rush Limbaugh for today. Tomorrow you will bring up some other nut and say "see they are crazy and making up stuff" . Reminds me of the way you treat the people that don't agree with Socialism at the "town hall meetings"

Obama is the expert on dividing a nation.

Idiot
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:37 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by buckman View Post
Idiot
go back to being an internet hero tuna fisherman

My take on palin is she just keeps committing political atrocities, which are pretty mind boggling... "Death Panels are bad, my son Trig with down syndrome* and my parents would be dead!" no, there aren't 'Death Panels', BUT the locals at the town hall meetings are screaming about it, so I better put something about it on my Facebook page...

I'm just waiting for her and Todd to leak a sex tape and be done with it

* I am not or would never make light of someone with a disability, but I was paraphrasing an actual line from her...

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:18 PM   #11
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go back to being an internet hero tuna fisherman
Ya, because I post so much

"I'm just waiting for her and Todd to leak a sex tape and be done with it"

Me too
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:41 PM   #12
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Well, Sara may be partially right, that is if we go the way of Britain's healthcare. If medical cost get to expensive in England you may find that the government will not pay for any new patients to receive tratment for that problem, therefore you will not get treatment and you will eventually die sooner then expected.

So who decides? A panel of doctors= death panels.

Remember, no matter what your prognosis you only die from one thing and that is, Lack of Air.

Last edited by Fly Rod; 08-13-2009 at 06:12 PM..
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:57 PM   #13
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She's just the lefts Rush Limbaugh for today. Tomorrow you will bring up some other nut and say "see they are crazy and making up stuff" .
At least you are finally realizing Palin and Rush are nut jobs.
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:15 PM   #14
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Johnny, Johnny, how can you say that Sara is a nut case? Do you hate influential women?

Name us one senator that has given back to the people. Every Alaskan that lives in that state gets a yearly check because of governor Palin. The Democrats are afraid of her, you are a democrat I do believe.
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Fly Rod View Post
Johnny, Johnny, how can you say that Sara is a nut case? Do you hate influential women?

Name us one senator that has given back to the people. Every Alaskan that lives in that state gets a yearly check because of governor Palin. The Democrats are afraid of her, you are a democrat I do believe.
The yearly check??
You're referring to the Alaska Permanent Fund? That was place WAY before Palin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund

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Old 08-14-2009, 02:21 PM   #16
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After talking to my para-legal you are correct.

I'll have to take her into my private office and have a discussion
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