Raising Arizona: No MA listed?

[PRBuzz]

At least 15 state legislatures are considering measures modeled after provisions of SB1070 that made Arizona the first state to allow police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally. The list does not include Wyoming, where a House committee this week killed a bill that would have allowed police to check the immigration status of anyone who is stopped for another violation. (Includes measures that had formally been introduced as of Feb. 2.)

• California
The Assembly is considering a measure that would require police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally.
• Colorado
The House is considering a measure that would allow police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally. The Senate is considering a measure that would require them to.
• Florida
The Senate is considering a measure that would allow police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally. It would go further than the Arizona law by increasing criminal penalties if a crime is committed by an illegal immigrant.
• Georgia
The House is considering a measure that would allow police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally.
• Indiana
The House is considering a measure that would allow police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally. A hearing on the bill was this week postponed because of wintry weather.
• Kentucky
The Senate has passed a measure that would allow police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally. Action in the House is pending.
• Maine
The House is considering a measure that would allow police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally.
• Maryland
The House is considering a measure that would allow police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally.
• Mississippi
Senate- and House-passed measures would allow police to check the immigration status of anyone who is stopped for a traffic violation. The House and the Senate are negotiating their differences over the legislation, which Gov. Haley Barbour has signaled he would sign. That would make Mississippi the first state to join Arizona in enacting such a bill.
• Nebraska
The Senate is considering a measure that would require non-U.S. citizens to carry proof of their legal status and would require police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally. A countermeasure would declare immigration a federal policy issue and direct Nebraska's congressional delegation to seek "a workable immigration system."
• Oregon
A bill in the House would require all public officials to "enforce immigration law" or be held legally liable. The bill's sponsor said she doesn't expect it to pass but hopes it stimulates debate on illegal immigration.
• South Carolina
A measure that would allow police to check the immigration status of anyone who is stopped for another violation is before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
• Texas
Several bills that would require police to check the immigration status of anyone who is stopped for another violation have been introduced after Gov. Rick Perry asked legislators to make illegal immigration a priority this session.
• Utah
The House is considering a measure that would allow police to question the immigration status of anyone they suspect is in the country illegally. An alternative proposal would allow illegal immigrants to register so they could live and work in Utah without fear of deportation.
• Virginia
A measure that would require police to check the immigration status of anyone who is stopped for another violation was introduced in the House this week.

[fishbones]

I just read an article about that. This could be a slippery slope for a lot of Republicans who campaigned on the illegal immigration issue.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

The list does not include Wyoming, where a House committee this week killed a bill that would have allowed police to check the immigration status of anyone who is stopped for another violation.

Buzz, didn't you know? There are no immigrants currently living in Wyoming.........

[Raven]

they should only be able to check immigration status for those caught red handed committing a crime ....not traffic infractions either...
hey! your tail light's out Buddy....

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Raven

they should only be able to check immigration status for those caught red handed committing a crime ....not traffic infractions either...
hey! your tail light's out Buddy....

Then they shouldn't be allowed to check your record and see if your broke any other laws either.

[Raven]

not everyone that looks like an Illegal is an illegal
which is what all the fuss is about right from the beginning

which turns us from a free society to one closer to NAZI Germany
when anyone could be asked "your Papers Please".

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by Raven

they should only be able to check immigration status for those caught red handed committing a crime ....not traffic infractions either...
hey! your tail light's out Buddy....

I disagree on this. At a minimum I think it should be anyone brought into custody (caught red handed or not)

I think they should be able to check immigration status without taking away someones “human rights”. Why can’t States just list on a drivers license if the person is a citizen or not? Here in Massachusetts driving is a “privilege” not a “right”. If it’s a privilege, then change the law to read that “US Citizen” or “Non US Citizen” be listed on that “privileged” license.

[The Dad Fisherman]

If you get stopped they should be allowed to check your status. They do the same for everyone that gets stopped as far as there being any outstanding warrants and such

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

If you get stopped they should be allowed to check your status. They do the same for everyone that gets stopped as far as there being any outstanding warrants and such

I know I'm a mentally defective liberal, but...
As long as there is a legitimate reason for stopping them, I see no problem with the ICE database being available to the police. I do worry that the legitimate reason becomes less clear to some people however....

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

If you get stopped they should be allowed to check your status. They do the same for everyone that gets stopped as far as there being any outstanding warrants and such

I agree, I wonder if the "BOP" (Board of Parol) system includes this info now. I don't think it does as not all systems are linked to a Federal System (I could be wrong). I would think the Federal System would have to provide "Citizenship" status as a state system might now have that info.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I know I'm a mentally defective liberal, but...
As long as there is a legitimate reason for stopping them, I see no problem with the ICE database being available to the police. I do worry that the legitimate reason becomes less clear to some people however....

Ok, so the ICE database is what they would use. That would work and I would have no objection for police checking it if someone were legitimatly stopped.

[PRBuzz]

Let's do the same as is done with drunk driving check points, no profiling no nothing: stop EVERYONE and check!

[Raven]

sounds like they got arrested which is quite different

post 9-11 ......... its "almost" a necessary evil

considering one of the Saudi's involved was stopped

and issued a citation and then sent on his way

i have lived places where there were signs ahead saying
mandatory checkpoint ahead

and i didn't like it

i don't wanna be on foot out shopping and be carded
just because i sport a beard

yet i had to show my ID at CVS wednesday
just to buy Vick's cherry flavored Nyquil

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Raven

not everyone that looks like an Illegal is an illegal
which is what all the fuss is about right from the beginning

which turns us from a free society to one closer to NAZI Germany
when anyone could be asked "your Papers Please".

Profiling may not be the politically correct method, but it sure as hell would be the most efficient.

The chances that a white guy driving an Audi SUV is and illegal is a whole lot less than a van filled with 6 people that don't speak English. Not to mention, illegals that are driving more than likely don't have car insurance - something that puts ever other person on the road at risk.

I can't imagine it would be overly difficult to also check immigration status during the the 15 minutes they are back there in their cruiser making me wonder if I'm getting a ticket or not.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Profiling may not be the politically correct method, but it sure as hell would be the most efficient.

The chances that a white guy driving an Audi SUV is and illegal is a whole lot less than a van filled with 6 people that don't speak English. Not to mention, illegals that are driving more than likely don't have car insurance - something that puts ever other person on the road at risk.

I can't imagine it would be overly difficult to also check immigration status during the the 15 minutes they are back there in their cruiser making me wonder if I'm getting a ticket or not.

Maybe if a less than properly compliant and documented immigrant cannot produce quality driver's ID and proof of insurance they can make sure esso is all legit.

Homes.

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Profiling may not be the politically correct method, but it sure as hell would be the most efficient.

The chances that a white guy driving an Audi SUV is and illegal is a whole lot less than a van filled with 6 people that don't speak English. Not to mention, illegals that are driving more than likely don't have car insurance - something that puts ever other person on the road at risk.

I can't imagine it would be overly difficult to also check immigration status during the the 15 minutes they are back there in their cruiser making me wonder if I'm getting a ticket or not.

You do not know whether they do not speak English until you stop them which is the problem. The causation of the the stop is the issue. If someone has make a traffic violation I think I agree with most of the other poster that you should have the ability to check their immigration status. If you are going to stop them because they look like illegals i.e. hispanic or asian where does it stop. Can police pull over and stop Italians or people who look Italian because the Mafia is all Italian.
That being said I would not mind having a citizen id card issued like the passport card. This way there would be no excuse by employers for saying they were not able to effectively check who they were hiring. Anyone who hires an illegal should pay treble the current fines.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by mosholu

You do not know whether they do not speak English until you stop them which is the problem. The causation of the the stop is the issue. If someone has make a traffic violation I think I agree with most of the other poster that you should have the ability to check their immigration status. If you are going to stop them because they look like illegals i.e. hispanic or asian where does it stop. Can police pull over and stop Italians or people who look Italian because the Mafia is all Italian.
That being said I would not mind having a citizen id card issued like the passport card. This way there would be no excuse by employers for saying they were not able to effectively check who they were hiring. Anyone who hires an illegal should pay treble the current fines.

Like I said, it's not politically correct, but profiling sure as hell is more efficient. A cop told me once "if I followed you for 5 minutes, I could come up with half a dozen legal reasons to pull you over." If they want to pull you over, they'll find a reason and be able to support it. That's not even taking into consideration that Boarder Patrol Agents, from what I understand (and I'll have to look it up again) aren't limited by the same probable cause situations as your town cop might be.

Example: New Mexico, AZ or Cali police pose as a small contractor in need of day-labor and drive to the local Home Depot or Lowes. They drive up then corral the multiple people standing outside trying to get a job for the day. The officer asks for their identification to check them for warrants and confirm their immigration status. Chances are pretty damn good (so good that I'd give 5:1 odds to anyone who disagrees) that at least one of them is here illegally.

Just to re-emphasize, I'm not saying profiling is pleasant or even fair, but removing bias and utilizing data to create profiles would be the most efficient method of enforcement.

[Raven]

i guess i'll get a Sombrero and drive around....

the mandatory checkpoints i spoke of were for vehicle emissions
(on the spot inspections) dmv sniffer rigs... in Cali

with the Porosity of the Southern Border including the many Tunnels and the fact Canada has plenty of holes too into Maine...ect. there's plenty of Opportunities for Bad guys to get into this country from groups whose only purpose is to Harm Americans in the name of their cause.

From that standpoint, i suppose it's necessary for security since the shift is now from large scale operations to small scale seems to be the new way.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Raven

i guess i'll get a Sombrero and drive around....

the mandatory checkpoints i spoke of were for vehicle emissions
(on the spot inspections) dmv sniffer rigs... in Cali

with the Porosity of the Southern Border including the many Tunnels and the fact Canada has plenty of holes too into Maine...ect. there's plenty of Opportunities for Bad guys to get into this country from groups whose only purpose is to Harm Americans in the name of their cause.

From that standpoint, i suppose it's necessary for security since the shift is now from large scale operations to small scale seems to be the new way.

The Boarder Patrol sets up similar checkpoints on highways in areas that border Mexico. Just like trying to cross the boarder... drive up, give them your ID and they decide if they want to further inspect you or not.

Just as ever Muslim is more scrutinized by people around them when they travel by plane (and that is undeniable), every Hispanic is going to me more scrutinized in border states. It's just more efficient. Until Europeans that want to enter the country illegally start funneling through Mexico en masse, there's no denying the effectiveness of questioning the group of non-English speaking guys standing outside a hardware store begging for work more than the Asian wearing a suit and driving a Mercedes.

Unfortunately, this entire country is so race-sensitive and dictated by Politically Correctness that the most effective security measure for this country must yield to the PR whores. Hell, I'm surprised I haven't been called a racist yet.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Raven

they should only be able to check immigration status for those caught red handed committing a crime ....not traffic infractions either...
hey! your tail light's out Buddy....

Try going to a foreign country and over staying your visa...

[TheSpecialist]

This video cracks me up..


http://http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/681069

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Like I said, it's not politically correct, but profiling sure as hell is more efficient. A cop told me once "if I followed you for 5 minutes, I could come up with half a dozen legal reasons to pull you over." If they want to pull you over, they'll find a reason and be able to support it. That's not even taking into consideration that Boarder Patrol Agents, from what I understand (and I'll have to look it up again) aren't limited by the same probable cause situations as your town cop might be.

Example: New Mexico, AZ or Cali police pose as a small contractor in need of day-labor and drive to the local Home Depot or Lowes. They drive up then corral the multiple people standing outside trying to get a job for the day. The officer asks for their identification to check them for warrants and confirm their immigration status. Chances are pretty damn good (so good that I'd give 5:1 odds to anyone who disagrees) that at least one of them is here illegally.

Just to re-emphasize, I'm not saying profiling is pleasant or even fair, but removing bias and utilizing data to create profiles would be the most efficient method of enforcement.

In addition to checking the multiple people who are standing around why not have the police follow these people to their employers and then the employers could be arrested/fined for violating FAIR because those employers have employed workers and have not checked to see if these people were legal or not. I am all for enforcing immigration laws against those that violate them but it should be applied equally to the workers and those who benefit from using illegal workers.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Unfortunately, this entire country is so race-sensitive and dictated by Politically Correctness that the most effective security measure for this country must yield to the PR whores.

ahhhh, yes..political correctness..

Lieberman, Collins: FBI and Pentagon could have stopped the Fort Hood shootings

By Joseph I. Lieberman and Susan M. Collins
Friday, February 4, 2011; 12:00 AM

Maj. Nidal Hasan, accused in the murders of 13 people and the attempted murders of 32 others in the shooting spree at Fort Hood, Tex., in November 2009, appears to be the toughest kind of terrorist to spot: a lone wolf who plots without the overt support of domestic cells or foreign sponsors.

Still, the attack did not come as a complete surprise to some in the Army and the FBI, and that makes this incident all the more tragic.

Our Senate committee's 14-month investigation of the Fort Hood killings has concluded that the Department of Defense and the FBI "collectively had sufficient information to have detected Hasan's radicalization to violent Islamist extremism but failed both to understand and to act on it."

The deaths at Fort Hood could and should have been prevented. The Defense Department's failure to acknowledge the threat of violent Islamist extremism within its ranks, coupled with organizational and communication flaws in the FBI's counterterrorism operations, contributed to the tragedy.

At various times while stationed at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Hasan, a psychiatrist, openly expressed his beliefs that suicide bombings were justified, that U.S. military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan were wars against Islam, that Muslim Americans in the U.S. military might engage in fratricide against their comrades and that his loyalty to his religion was greater than his sworn obligation as a military officer to support and defend the Constitution.

Some of Hasan's colleagues complained about these statements. Two fellow officers described him as "a ticking time bomb." But astonishingly, Hasan's commanders took no action against him. They gave various excuses for this, including an outrageously misguided argument that Hasan's radical statements provided insights into violent Islamist extremism that could benefit our military. Rather than discipline or discharge him, Hasan's superiors sanitized his personnel evaluations so that evidence of his radicalization was praised as research on terrorism and Islam.


Lieberman, Collins: FBI and Pentagon could have stopped the Fort Hood shootings

[spence]

Sounds more like weak leadership.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by mosholu

In addition to checking the multiple people who are standing around why not have the police follow these people to their employers and then the employers could be arrested/fined for violating FAIR because those employers have employed workers and have not checked to see if these people were legal or not. I am all for enforcing immigration laws against those that violate them but it should be applied equally to the workers and those who benefit from using illegal workers.

I couldn't agree more. Ship the illegals home and fine the crap out of the businesses.

[PRBuzz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I couldn't agree more. Ship the illegals home and fine the crap out of the businesses.

Chipotle Mexican Grill has a lot going for it — an upscale burrito concept, a hip and eco-friendly image, expansion plans galore and a 500 percent-plus stock price gain in just over two years.
And then it has something not going its way — a federal crackdown on its immigrant labor force that has so far forced Chipotle to fire hundreds of allegedly illegal workers in the state of Minnesota, perhaps more than half its staff there.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

Chipotle Mexican Grill has a lot going for it — an upscale burrito concept, a hip and eco-friendly image, expansion plans galore and a 500 percent-plus stock price gain in just over two years.
And then it has something not going its way — a federal crackdown on its immigrant labor force that has so far forced Chipotle to fire hundreds of allegedly illegal workers in the state of Minnesota, perhaps more than half its staff there.

Wages are the #1 expense for many small businesses. If I could cut my wage expenses in half, resulting in me not having to pay nearly as much in state/fed/insurance/unemployment/disability taxes.... yeah, my profits would be wayyyy up too.

[spence]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

a federal crackdown on its immigrant labor force that has so far forced Chipotle to fire hundreds of allegedly illegal workers in the state of Minnesota, perhaps more than half its staff there.

Good point, it would seem that the Obama Admin is taking immigration prosecution pretty seriously. There was a report out a few weeks ago on this...

While the punditry is throwing mud, the Feds are making progress.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Wages are the #1 expense for many small businesses. If I could cut my wage expenses in half, resulting in me not having to pay nearly as much in state/fed/insurance/unemployment/disability taxes.... yeah, my profits would be wayyyy up too.

Obama just said that if you become more energy efficient as a business and green that you can use the savings to hire more employees regardless if you actually have any work for those employees to perform, it's for the good of the nation...of course, he also forgot that he told us that under his plan the cost of energy will necessarily skyrocket.. sooooo you might possibly break even if you are lucky...but still hire more employees that you don't need because it's for the good of the nation....aaaaand...him....aaaand.....be energy efficient...like him...and eat healthy and don't smoke aaaaaand....whatever

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Good point, it would seem that the Obama Admin is taking immigration prosecution pretty seriously. There was a report out a few weeks ago on this...

While the punditry is throwing mud, the Feds are making progress.

-spence

BS...and the unemployment rate is 9%