Black Market Stripers?

[Fish_Eye]

i'm working with an author who's about to release a book that reveals his observations and dealings with the black market sales of striped bass. It's brutally honest and in opinion very timely.

My questions to you folks here on SB.com are as follows (without naming names):

1. Do you think there is a large black market for striped bass?
2. Do you know anyone who is transporting fish illegally from one state to another in order to sell them?
3. Do you know anyone who ignores the quota and takes as many fish as he/she feels they can hide and sell?
4. Do you know of instances where someone takes lots of undersized fish and sells them to restaurants?
5. Do you know fishermen that illegally target fish in the EEZ for sale?
6. Have you ever called DEM or DEC to report a violator only to have no response?
7. Do you think this illegal activity is having a negative impact on the health of the striper population?
8. What do you think we need to do to help eliminate this problem?

I'm just trying to get a sense for how rampant this kind of activity might be. Even if you don't personally know somebody that is doing it, have you heard reliable rumors to the effect that "so and so" is selling to "such and such" restaurant? Is this only a problem in Maryland where they found 10 tons of stripers in illegal, submerged gillnets or does New England have it's share of poachers, pirates and bootleggers? Without naming any individuals or any businesses can you shed some light on whether you think this is a problem in your area?

[djlesco]

I have witnessed countless times where the regulations are ignored .. this winter a mutual friend of ours called DEM several times regarding this with no show by them.
If we all have to pay money for a license my questionfor is how are they regulating the fisheries?

Thinking like a criminal (not which im not)
But in order to get caught somone has to be really blatant on doing it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnR]

1. Do you think there is a large black market for striped bass? Large? No. Existing, yes.
2. Do you know anyone who is transporting fish illegally from one state to another in order to sell them? No
3. Do you know anyone who ignores the quota and takes as many fish as he/she feels they can hide and sell? personally? No
4. Do you know of instances where someone takes lots of undersized fish and sells them to restaurants? No
5. Do you know fishermen that illegally target fish in the EEZ for sale? Personally? Not that I am aware of but i would suspect yes (and half the BI fleet.
6. Have you ever called DEM or DEC to report a violator only to have no response? Not recently
7. Do you think this illegal activity is having a negative impact on the health of the striper population? Marginal impact.
8. What do you think we need to do to help eliminate this problem? Setup L.E. Sting teams to chase down those poaching, and have the courts do more than a slap on the wrist.

[chaz]

1.y
2.n
3.y
4.n
5.eez?
6.n almost a few times,when i throw mine back because it too short and the guy next to me keeps short fish and gets away with it.
7.y
8.step up patrols during migration season,that means some dep officals will have to get out of bed a little sooner(i have been in some places and have not seen any while this happens)

[N.ShoreFisher]

EEZ- Exclusive Economic Zone

[Slipknot]

1. Do you think there is a large black market for striped bass? I'm sure it's large enough to motivate the unscrupulous/unethical
2. Do you know anyone who is transporting fish illegally from one state to another in order to sell them? no
3. Do you know anyone who ignores the quota and takes as many fish as he/she feels they can hide and sell? no
4. Do you know of instances where someone takes lots of undersized fish and sells them to restaurants? no
5. Do you know fishermen that illegally target fish in the EEZ for sale? not that I am aware of, but I know it goes on
6. Have you ever called DEM or DEC to report a violator only to have no response? no
7. Do you think this illegal activity is having a negative impact on the health of the striper population? could be
8. What do you think we need to do to help eliminate this problem?

Fine the restaurants and poachers more than the usual slap on the wrist if there is enough enforcement to catch them and charge them.

[onecastmike2003]

Its the Mass guys who pillage all the Bass and don't put them back when there migrating year after year. Im only kidding around but its true .

[bobber]

1. black market for bass? yes
2. anyone transporting bass? yes (you should see FultonMarket in NYC)
3. ignores quota? no, not a specific individual
4. selling undersize bass? not just bass....
5. fishing in the EEZ- yes (not just commercially)
6. called DEC? no
7. having an impact? somewhat
8. what to do? makes violations more substantial to actually be a DETERRENT. poachers laugh at the fines now

[piemma]

Do you think there is a large black market for striped bass? Yes
Do you know anyone who is transporting fish illegally from one state to another in order to sell them? Yes
Do you know anyone who ignores the quota and takes as many fish as he/she feels they can hide and sell? Yes
Do you know of instances where someone takes lots of undersized fish and sells them to restaurants? Yes
Do you know fishermen that illegally target fish in the EEZ for sale? No
Have you ever called DEM or DEC to report a violator only to have no response? Yes
Do you think this illegal activity is having a negative impact on the health of the striper population? Yes
What do you think we need to do to help eliminate this problem?
Bigger fines and loss of boat/equipment

[sokinwet]

no x 7..what problem?

[Rob Rockcrawler]

There is a black market.
Transport: NO
Overlimit: NO
Restaurants: Yes, not any more.
EEZ: NO
DEP: YEs and No, one time they did not respond on the cape, RI they are on it.
Illegal activity: Yes.
What we need: Real deterrents, fines that hurt.

[tlapinski]

1 - Not a large market but definitely an existing one
2 - Not personally but the rumor mill is busy
3 - Not personally but the rumor mill is busy
4 - Not undersized, but I do know of guys that do this with legal-sized fish, sometimes above the legal possession limit
5 - Not personally but the rumor mill is busy
6 - Yes in RI. Every call I have made in CT has resulted in a dispatched officer
7 - Absolutely, but so is the rec and commercial take
8 - Harsher punishment, more public notice of violations, increased funding for enforcement, "demonization" of violators (certain individuals that have recently been busted locally are regarded as heroes in the SB fishing world).

[Clammer]

Slip /What ??? Do u live in a blank in bubble ><><><><

[RIROCKHOUND]

Bigger than most think
Probably
Yes to numbers
No to size
Probably
Got a response, never showed
Yes
1 @ 36", more enforcement

[Slipknot]

not a bubble clammer, a house
I just don't associate with poachers

[shadow]

I know a guy who has a boat and he sells 80% of what he catches to restaurants around new haven regardless of species but there is a definite preference for stripers.I have never witness it but he talks about it all season long. If i know when he was going out Id drop a dime on him bc i cant stand poachers. I think the market is bigger then most would expect. There are alot of guys like him around without a dubt. I also know a guy in rhode island when i lived there that would do the same he did have a R.I. comm. lic. but he would sell to people at the" back door" with out his lic. They are out there and they can catch. Never mind the charter captains who keep there 2 and the mate takes his 2 every trip they are not giving those fish to friends or family. Not sure how to stop it other then making it a serious offense but there need to be enforcement.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by shadow

I know a guy who has a boat and he sells 80% of what he catches to restaurants around new haven regardless of species but there is a definite preference for stripers.I have never witness it but he talks about it all season long. If i know when he was going out Id drop a dime on him bc i cant stand poachers. I think the market is bigger then most would expect. There are alot of guys like him around without a dubt. I also know a guy in rhode island when i lived there that would do the same he did have a R.I. comm. lic. but he would sell to people at the" back door" with out his lic. They are out there and they can catch. Never mind the charter captains who keep there 2 and the mate takes his 2 every trip they are not giving those fish to friends or family. Not sure how to stop it other then making it a serious offense but there need to be enforcement.

There is one and only one easy way to stop it and that's take the market away. HOW??? You make the striped bass a game fish. No market for it. No reason to poach.

[Mr. Sandman]

Do you think there is a large black market for striped bass?

Yes. Not a huge black market but its going on and it is naive to say it isn't.

Do you know anyone who is transporting fish illegally from one state to another in order to sell them?
No, but I am sure it happens.

Do you know anyone who ignores the quota and takes as many fish as he/she feels they can hide and sell?
Yes. Again, not everyone is breaking the law but more do than don't. Multiple trips per day, people buy licenses for everyone in their family to make it quasi-legal to sell under but the lic holder has never wet a line.

Do you know of instances where someone takes lots of undersized fish and sells them to restaurants?

Yes ( and the restaurants don't have a permit to buy fish from the fisherman) Not all comm fisherman are breaking the regs but there is not enough enforcement to stop anyone from doing it. The best way to answer this is to ask How many arrests were made last year in MA for illegal SB comm activity? ( the answer is so few that the DMF does not want to even address this matter in a serious manner)

Do you know fishermen that illegally target fish in the EEZ for sale?
Yes (Just fly over the R&C rip during comm season) Also the Hooter off MV and the SW shoal outside the EEZ you will find boats with bass. Also many tuna fisherman run unto bass at times off Chatham and I have seen them return to the dock with SB. (They claim they never heard of an EEZ)

Have you ever called DEM or DEC to report a violator only to have no response?
Yes (it is a joke and I never even got a call back), Lets put it this way, its rare anyone talks to a real person when you call them up

Do you think this illegal activity is having a negative impact on the health of the striper population?

It certainly can't help the population

What do you think we need to do to help eliminate this problem?

The solution is a lot simpler than you think:

1) Make SB a gamefish and put a 1@ 36" rec limit to maintain the positive economic and social benefits for local businesses and the general public.

2) increase enforcement and punishments : Breaking fishing regs : First offense: $1000 fine and loss of lic for 2 years; 2nd offense $5000 fine and permanent loss of right to fish (comm or rec) for life. Any other offense after that = real Jail time.
Also target restaurants that buy fish from fisherman directly without permits. (It is a free-for-all). (its not just bass it is out of season Tog as well and big tuna that are caught by non comms, get loin-ed out to restaurants all the time, many restaurants do not want a 300# fish but they will take a 60# of steaks for the weekend, there is no record of what happens out there, few even report what they catch)

3) If you are going to have a comm season for SB you must limit the poundage that comes from a certain area. You can't have a fleet come in day in and day out for several years and wipe out the fishing in an area and then move on to the next area, you need to spread the quota over the entire state, areas need to be shut down when they have contributed their fair share to the quota. When this happens it wipes out the fishing for years in that area....Just having a quota is not the be-all and end-all solution to everything fishing.

The regs we have now are laughable and unenforced. DMF really needs to pull a couple comm lic's from some law breakers for life and that message will get thru to the others to clean up their act.



One more question:
Do you know anyone who uses illegal baits or methods to fish for Striped bass.

Ans: Yes. Many use underside scup and others use lead infused baits.


Also I want to see more enforcement on guys dragging for squid...turns out they have a lot more than squid in their nets. This has been documented. Boats from NY, RI were fishing close to the beach here and were pounding a striper spot... USCG sent a chopper out and got their numbers...sent an officer to Pt. Jude and they have a boatload of bass and it was springtime (June) not even comm bass season. (just a small fine resulted)

What about SB bycach are they counted toward the quota? According to the DMF there is no such thing as striped bass by-catch, at least they don't count it as anything significant.

sorry, you hit a nerve, once I get going I just can't stop

[spence]

I wonder how much poached fish isn't even consumed by local restaurants but is shipped out of the area where it may be impossible to track.

Last year I was at a nice eatery on Manhattan Beach in California and every seafood item on the menu was from New England...Whole black sea bass, scallops etc...

-spence

[shadow]

I agree Paul there was a time when I wasnt that gun hoe about making striped bass a gamefish. But each year I start believing more and more that it's the only thing that will work. Even then people will still sell them but it would at least be a very low number compered to what's being done now.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[BatesBCheatin]

This is the only way, and still there will be some poaching.

A few years ago one would have been verbally eviscerated for making such a remark. I think many of those 'in the know' realize what is happening, and it's good to see the notion becoming somewhat accepted - at least by a higher percentage of seasoned fishermen than before.

Originally Posted by piemma

There is one and only one easy way to stop it and that's take the market away. HOW??? You make the striped bass a game fish. No market for it. No reason to poach.

Originally Posted by shadow

I agree Paul there was a time when I wasnt that gun hoe about making striped bass a gamefish. But each year I start believing more and more that it's the only thing that will work. Even then people will still sell them but it would at least be a very low number compered to what's being done now.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

Problem with making bass a game fish (which I am 100% for) is that there are farm raised striped bass. This causes a problem because bass will always be available for purchase and I doubt gamefish status will shut down farmed bass.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[mosholu]

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[mosholu]

I know one guy that we fish with that from time to time will bring back 3 or 4 keepers to NYC after a w/e. While I can not say for sure that he sells them to restaurants there is no way as a single guy it is for his own use.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Problem with making bass a game fish (which I am 100% for) is that there are farm raised striped bass. This causes a problem because bass will always be available for purchase and I doubt gamefish status will shut down farmed bass.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Valid point Eben. I'm not smart enough to know the answer to fixing that problem. Maybe farm raised have to be tagged or something. All I know is I KNOW guys who "back door" bass all season long. Size means nothing. Number of fish means nothing. They make a damn good living doing this and have their "buyers" lined up before the bass are here.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

the bottom line is that you can't change human nature.the hardcore poachers will find a way to sell fish no matter what.will gamefish status stop people taking undersized fish i doubt it will it stop recs from taking more than their limit i doubt it.the only way to stop law breakers is to enforce the laws to the fullest extent with big penalties.if you lose your boat for poaching,i am sure some would think twice,if you lose your vehicle selling thru the back down you would think twice.if states had enforcement like Fla MP there would be a lot less of this going on.

[Duke41]

A know a few jackasses that are a yes on number three. These idiots were trying to give stripers away at Kenport a marina that is full of fisherman. Of course nobody wanted them so they chucked them over the side. The fish were lying at the end of their slip on the bottom rotting away for a few days.

I know a retired dude that fishes everyday he keeps every legal he catches and tries to pawn them on his neighbors. He has got 2 freezers in the garage full of dead striper. The neighbors don't want the fish anymore. I have tried to talk sense into him, but no. I find it amazing how guys will work so hard to destroy the fish that they love and brings them so much pleasure to catch.

[tlapinski]

Originally Posted by Duke41

I know a retired dude that fishes everyday he keeps every legal he catches and tries to pawn them on his neighbors. He has got 2 freezers in the garage full of dead striper. The neighbors don't want the fish anymore. I have tried to talk sense into him, but no. I find it amazing how guys will work so hard to destroy the fish that they love and brings them so much pleasure to catch.

Perhaps it is time for an anonymous tip to be called in and see if the police can talk some sense into him.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by tlapinski

Perhaps it is time for an anonymous tip to be called in and see if the police can talk some sense into him.

Why??? What is he doing thats illegal? As far as I knew you can bring fish home and put it in your freezer legally.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Problem with making bass a game fish (which I am 100% for) is that there are farm raised striped bass. This causes a problem because bass will always be available for purchase and I doubt gamefish status will shut down farmed bass.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

If I remember correctly (which I probably don't), farm raised SB are required to be tagged as such.