Losing almost all access to Cape Cod side of the canal

[mikecc]

Tonight Felicia & I went to the cape side of the canal to go fishing. We were at a grade crossing called half way gate .There was a man putting up these signs all along any and all access to the canal that crosses over the tracks. So let me understand this we are about to celebrate the centennial anniversary of the building of the canal and we will have no access basically to one whole side because the train tracks block access and if you cross it you can be issued a public trespass citation along with a $100.00 fine. This is no joke. No walking, biking, rollerblading, fishing, and also viewing any of the boats that will be coming through for the celebration, etc. Oh and to my Wareham friends that will also mean no fishing out back on Merchants way as they will be posting that also.

[Nebe]

This is just the owner of the tracks covering their ass on case someone gets hit by a train.
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[PRBuzz]

New train service starts this weekend Boston-Hyannis

[wdmso]

I think by federal law any an all crossings required to marked

crossings are either passive crossings which have warnings such as signs, or active crossings which have automatic warning devices such as boom gates, flashing lights

but they are starting train service off the cape this year so people will need to pay attention on that side

[ThrowingTimber]

I wouldnt worry until they start tearing up the service road and planting claymores. at that point the chit has truly hit the fan.

[Bronko]

Fences next?
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[JohnR]

Was there notice on this?

[Nebe]

On cliff walk, they put up signs saying "stay off the cliff and rocks". Sadly it's all about financial liability these days. Some moron gets hit by a train and if there are no signs, a lawyer will sue for millions over it.
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[Mike P]

Here's my understanding of the situation. The railroad or DOT doesn't own the land those tracks are on. The US Government owns the land. The RR has a right of way over the land. At those grade crossings, the US Government retained a right of way to access the service road. It's the USACOE, not the RR or DOT, who has the right to determine who can legally use those crossings to access the road.

Read the sign. Right to pass by subject to permission of owner, or words to that effect. Who has the right to grant that permission? That's what people need to find out. The last time this issue arose, the CoE stated that they control those crossings, not the RR. Has this changed?

[tysdad115]

Fences too ? I've never been one for authority...Tom any chance you can make me a bag to carry this?

[afterhours]

Originally Posted by tysdad115

Fences too ? I've never been one for authority...Tom any chance you can make me a bag to carry this?

black ops access points.

[nightfighter]

yup. And this doesn't make noise or need batteries.....

[FishermanTim]

Who will be giving out these alleged citations?
If and when you do receive one, ask the person giving it to you "On whose authority are you issuing this?"

Not to dwell too deeply on this, but if we are to be constrained by the legality of this sign, shouldn't those applying it be made to explain it, or at least answer our inquiries regarding its application?

I do believe it's a pre-emptive warning to cover the legal requirement of said RR crossing. Of course there's always the "No hablo englese" contingency to keep in mind.......

[Mike P]

By they way, there have been No Trespassing signs posted along those tracks for a few years, no. But, if you've ever read them (I have), and compare the wording to that on the new signs, you'll see some key differences.

The existing signs state that entering or crossing the tracks is forbidden. They then cite the applicable MGL provision, and cite the authority of Mass Coastal RR.

These signs merely state that it's a "private RR Crossing" and that permission to pass by is subject to the control of the owner. Without stating who that owner is. AFAIK, that "owner" is the USACOE. If you look at the CoE canal recreation Guide, the CoE states in several places that they have provided "access points, with parking and rest rooms, on BOTH sides of the Canal", including one under the Bourne Bridge, where there is one of those "private RR crossings". Legally, they're giving the public at least implicit permission to use those crossings---provided that they're the "owner". And I think that they are.

[johnny ducketts]

So if I park at the ice arena and try to cross I'm trespassing, but if I park at bell rd and start hoofing it down the path I'm ok. Bell rd, is going to get awfully crowded.
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[Stewie]

what about the people that live on Old Monument Neck Rd? Is it illegal for them to leave or return to their houses?

[BigFish]

They will have to tackle me to write the ticket....it ain't happening!

[fishbones]

Just to be safe, I think it's a good idea for everyone to stay on the mainland side.

[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Just to be safe, I think it's a good idea for everyone to stay on the mainland side.

I couldn't agree more.

[JohnnySaxatilis]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Just to be safe, I think it's a good idea for everyone to stay on the mainland side.

... this may be the greatest thing that ever happened to the canal

[Swimmer]

Listen to MikeP. First of all where are they going to summons you too, railroad court. They don't even have citations to issue, and even if they attempted to make some thier is an extraordinary process that would take years to approve to even get such a document made. No railroad employee that is currently employed by that railroad line has any authority over you, none, nada. On the books are three different chapters and section that commonly pertain too track walking, I.E. tresspassing that valid law enforcement officers can act upon. That only pertains to someone walking along the track right-of-way for some unknown reason. No reasonable person is going to arrest or summons anyone going fishing. Believe me when I say this, I use to run across very intelligent people who thought they could walk, jog, run thier dogs or do anything they pleased along the T tracks in Whitman. Very few were arrested, most were summons to court. Use to have a kid high as a kite every morning race across the track crossing purposely just ahead of the train on his ten speed tempting fate. It took awhile to catch him, but I did. Whenever he did it in front of me the train would pass by and he was gone by the time I could get across the tracks behind him. The train only missed him one day by just a couple of feet. I have also had the pleasure of viewing the bodies of individuals who chose to end thier lives by kissing the train. As long as no one camps, trackwalks, or does anything other than walk across to access your favorite fishing spot I don't believe you'll ever have a problem. But as MikeCC says, it certainly bears watching.

[Ken_J]

Where I live, in CT, MTA Police write tickets to people for trespassing the tracks.

These guys - http://www.mta.info/mta/police/

not sure who does what where canal is, my point is that "train police" do exist in some places

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Listen to MikeP. First of all where are they going to summons you too, railroad court. They don't even have citations to issue, and even if they attempted to make some thier is an extraordinary process that would take years to approve to even get such a document made. No railroad employee that is currently employed by that railroad line has any authority over you, none, nada. On the books are three different chapters and section that commonly pertain too track walking, I.E. tresspassing that valid law enforcement officers can act upon. That only pertains to someone walking along the track right-of-way for some unknown reason. No reasonable person is going to arrest or summons anyone going fishing. Believe me when I say this, I use to run across very intelligent people who thought they could walk, jog, run thier dogs or do anything they pleased along the T tracks in Whitman. Very few were arrested, most were summons to court. Use to have a kid high as a kite every morning race across the track crossing purposely just ahead of the train on his ten speed tempting fate. It took awhile to catch him, but I did. Whenever he did it in front of me the train would pass by and he was gone by the time I could get across the tracks behind him. The train only missed him one day by just a couple of feet. I have also had the pleasure of viewing the bodies of individuals who chose to end thier lives by kissing the train. As long as no one camps, trackwalks, or does anything other than walk across to access your favorite fishing spot I don't believe you'll ever have a problem. But as MikeCC says, it certainly bears watching.

[Bob Thomas]

Originally Posted by Ken_J

Where I live, in CT, MTA Police write tickets to people for trespassing the tracks.

These guys - MTA.info | MTA Police

not sure who does what where canal is, my point is that "train police" do exist in some places

To my knowledge, this also applies to MA. I knew a Chief and Patrolman of the "Grafton/Upton Railroad." Literally, about 1 mile of tracks, however some law required enforcement of track trespassing etc. The "Owner" of the tracks "hired" a police force. They had a Toyota Camry or something and had the legal right to enforce trespassing etc. They went to a state academy as RR police and received their powers. Now, that RR has since been bought out but my point is that there may be some sort of RR police, whether it's a "manager" with the powers or something is unknown.

Also, if it's the MBTA, wouldn't the MBTA police also have jurisdiction? If so, watch out!

[BigFish]

If you are not a Police Officer or a State Cop....I will not be entertaining any conversation. End of story....I have fish to catch which, by the way, I pay for a license for the privilege. Besides which I pay state taxes which go towards upkeep and operation of the canal. Anyone approaching me will be cast aside as a pain in my ass!

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by Ken_J

Where I live, in CT, MTA Police write tickets to people for trespassing the tracks.

These guys - MTA.info | MTA Police

not sure who does what where canal is, my point is that "train police" do exist in some places

We have mass transit police (T cops) who are highly trained and very effective. My original point in another post is thatthese people are just doing what theyhave to do so thier insurance premiums dont go up. Like lastyear this time someone spread a rumor about a ticket being placed on a car to close to the tracks and all of asudden a big to do happened. All for nothing. I am not commenting ever again about this. Minding my business here from now on.
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[Clogston29]

The FRA has the authority to issue citations and fines for person's trespassing on the railroad, doesn't mean that they are going to take the time to enforce it on fisherman, their interest is mostly with contractors. railroad tracks are private property and you are required to cross them at designated crossings, not historic or convenience crossings. This is probably just the railroad or operator taking efforts to protect themselves from liability. Someone gets hit by a train and killed and their family could sue saying the track was unmarked and it was assumed abandoned.

i was doing a rr bridge inspection out in fitchburg and saw a woman and her 5 year old crawl under a parked freight train rather than walk around. people do stupid stuff on railroad tracks.

[ProfessorM]

can't they just slow down along the canal? This situations is exactly what I feared when I heard they were going to start this train thing. My feeling is this thing will be a novelty for a while and eventually peter out. I can't see this being a lucrative venture for the RR. Besides who wants to end up in Hyannis without a car?

[WESTPORTMAFIA]

Look both ways before crossing and you will be fine. How hard is this to understand? You can't be ticketed unless your caught crossing. So look both ways before you cross. There will be nobody hiding in bushes trying to catch you. It protects the owner. This has to do with the dipchit sue happy society that we live in.

[Mr. Sandman]

I don't fish the CC but I know a lot of you do. But why doesn't someone just call up the authority who wrote the sign, pose a direct question(s) and get a clearer answer? ("Is it OK if I fish at XYZ at 2:00am?, Can I go on the bank or rocks? can I cross the tracks? Can I park at X? ) Get the straight scoop. Worrying about who will write you a ticket or how you can break in or cut fences will prove unproductive in the long run and IMO is a contributing reason why access has been reduced in places.

[tattoobob]

If you look at the sign there is no text on there that states an authority governing the trespassing, these signs are there to cover someone's butt so when someone gets hit no one will sue
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