Createx Headaches

[Eric Roach]

I E-tex'd a plug tonight and before I was done it was starting to pit. The plug is a parrot scheme with the flourescent yellow from a rattle can (Krylon) and the flourescent green from a new bottle of Createx. The pitting was only over the fl. green. Here are some details:

• The Krylon fl. yellow dried for maybe 4 days before applying the Createx over it.
• The fl. green was thinned with Createx Illustration Base until it had the viscosity of milk. It went through the airbrush just fine.
• I used a heat gun a couple of times while applying the fl. green to take the wet sheen off of it before applying more.
• When done, I ran the heat gun on it for several minutes.
• The plug sat in front of a portable forced-air heater for about 24 hours, then just hung for another 24 hours.
• The E-tex is new and has been consistent.

Here's the part where I should have known better: I placed the grommets on the plug before E-texing and, as usual, I held the plug with a KimWipe to keep my hand oils off of it. When done, I noticed that the KimWipe clung to the fl. green a little, so I ran the heat gun over it for a few more minutes. Apparently it still wasn't cured before I E-tex'd

I tell you, this is why I primarily switched to lacquer-based paints. I still sometimes use Createx over a lacqer base coat when I think I might botch a paint job, because it's easy to wash off and re-paint rather than sand and re-prime.

So, what do you think? Should I have bake-set the Createx? Did I not give it enough time to dry (48 hrs)? Should I have thinned it differently?

Any advice appreciated.

[Muskyslayer96]

Eric
I can definitely relate to your frustrations. You should definitely be heat setting your createx, as for heat gun I cannot comment. I use my wife's old hairdryer and just heat it long enough to see the paint dry.
One question, are you hitting the etext coat with heat gun after its added to remove bubbles? I've had my etex coat fisheye and pit by hitting it too long with the heat gun. Now I quickly wave the heat gun on low setting over the bait before it goes on the drying wheel, that's all it
should take to remove bubbles. What type of brushes are you using? I use flux brushes and I super glue the base to prevent bristles from falling out on bait and I then give them a soak on acetone to remove any potential oils they may contain. I also made the mistake of using syringes I bought at farm implement instead of builders site and they contained silicone that caused all my lures to fisheye.
Some of the metallics and pearls have some sort of static charge that always seems to fisheye on the first coat as well.
The good news is that if you can identify the source all the plugs need is another coat of clear and you'll be as good as new.
Good luck and enjoy the journey.......has been one of the best stress relievers (as well as stressors) in my life, this lure building thing
Best
MS

[pbadad]

Eric you seem to have contaminated the paint. After I paint the plugs I use the heat gun to set paint then let them dry overnight in a warm area (longer if in a colder area). I spray all my plugs w/clear lacquer as a scratch coat to help w/ first protecting the paint from being ruin by handling and to make it easier to clean off with a rubbing alcohol all oils from handling. I do use clear plastic gloves to paint, seal , handle and e-tex plugs. After the lacquer dries overnight I install eyes, belly grommets and lips. E-tex then hang/flip. Been working fine. I also measure all my rod building and e-tex epoxies w/rod building syringes. Doesn't get anymore exacting than using measured syringes.

[Eric Roach]

Hi MS, thanks for replying. I was actually going to PM you about this.

Originally Posted by Muskyslayer96

...I use my wife's old hairdryer and just heat it long enough to see the paint dry.
I felt like I had done this with the heat gun, I passed it over the paint until the wet sheen was off -- even while continuing to paint.

...are you hitting the etext coat with heat gun after its added to remove bubbles?
No, I use my breath through a straw (a rod-building trick). I've burned far too much epoxy using a mini propane torch; never tried a heat gun/hair dryer.

...I quickly wave the heat gun on low setting over the bait before it goes on the drying wheel...to remove bubbles.
I just blow with the straw. At times, I can see the moisture from my breath sheen on the epoxy then quickly evaporate, but I see this on plugs that don't fisheye either so I don't believe it's the cause.

...What type of brushes are you using?
Acid brushes from Woodcraft. I dip them and wipe them with denatured alcohol before useing them. I also wipe the mixing cup, the mixing roller (I use an electric mixer) and the aluminum dish I pour the epoxy in before use.

...syringes...
I use silicone-free rod building syringes. I E-texed 4 plugs last night with the same set of syringes and only the one plug pitted.

I've had this problem a few times in the past so I started spraying a light coat of satin lacquer on plugs and letting them thoroughly dry before E-texing. This took care of a lot of issues. Of course, I skipped that step on this plug.

I know this issue is directly related to the Createx because that's the only part of the plug that pitted.

I'm wondering if I should have bake-cured the plug at a low setting(?)

[Sgt Striper]

Mixing acrylic with any solvent based paints will create headaches!! What probably happened is when you applied the Createx over the Krylon and the heat set you got outgassing from the Krylon. I use only water based acrylics now including my primer and have had no ill effects with the Etex, if anything I am getting a better adhesion and a smoother finish.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Sgt Striper

Mixing acrylic with any solvent based paints will create headaches!! What probably happened is when you applied the Createx over the Krylon and the heat set you got outgassing from the Krylon. I use only water based acrylics now including my primer and have had no ill effects with the Etex, if anything I am getting a better adhesion and a smoother finish.

Ditto.....I wouldn't mix the 2.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Ditto.....I wouldn't mix the 2.

X 3
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by Sgt Striper

...Mixing acrylic with any solvent based paints will create headaches...

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Ditto.....I wouldn't mix the 2.

Originally Posted by Swimmer

X 3
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I have layered acrylics over a lacquer base coat, layered acrylics over airbrushed lacquer paints, and layered airbrushed lacquer coats over acrylic many times in the past without the issue I am describing.

Come to think of it, I have always used a lacquer base coat before airbrushing, which means I have always layered acrylic over a lacquer base. I have had only a few problems doing this, and I'm now wondering if the problems were related to inappropriate dry times for the lacquer base...I have to admit I'm not always patient. I can see how Kevin's use of a water-based primer would help in this matter -- no outgassing issues if the base/prime coat is water-based.

OK, lesson learned: I won't combine the two anymore.

Thanks for all your input.

[Ed White]

I'm curious to hear about the acrylic primer, I use Bins and love the fill and finish after sanding, hate dealing with flammable solvents in my garage, would love to go acrylic for priming.
As for the etex pitting, some Createx colors just do that, and only experience has shown me which ones.....Pearl silver and gold being the biggest bastards for me. As you said, a coat of clear before etex works to mitigate that problem.

[numbskull]

I had huge problems with epoxy sticking to a krylon clear coat over createx. I spoke to System three and they advised me to eliminate the clear spray coat. That helped a lot although system three is still prone to fisheye.

[Ed White]

One of the great things about plugbuilding....what works to solve a problem for someone just creates a boatload of trouble for someone else

[timmah]

I ALWAYS have problems with Fluorescent Krylon, anything but fluorescent works fine mixing with other colors, acrylics, etc, the bright orange, green or or any other fluorescents never play well with other colors, even the same brand. Rustoleum Fluorescents work better but still have some problems. They take a long time to cure as well.

There is also something about the color Yellow that has adhesion problems. On both my Large Format and Laser printers (i have a printshop) both heat activated and pressure sensitive laminates will not stick to large fields of printed yellow. I have no idea why. I have to spray clear fixative on yellow prints before laminating.