The F%$#kin' Plovers Closed Great Point

[beachwalker]

Well I have about had it. For the first time since Great Point was an island (20 years ago) they have closed it to vehicles from the Galls North.

The Plovers have hatched and the little bastards are running all around up there. All FIVE of them !

The Trustee employees are shrugging their shoulders, they don't have much of a choice. At least the haven't closed all of it. All Coatue and 2/3rds of the Point is open but the last two miles nada. I don't think I will be walking that. If it was Fall we wouldn't have a choice.

If anyone was going to visit that is the latest and it looks like it will be 4 weeks before they clear out.

With Smiths Point almost an island again and, now this, it looks like the boat is going to be key for getting to these spots now.

I am going to miss the Point. A great place to sneak up to and do the 1:00 am to 6:00 am shift !

[KLMulder]

We must conserve all of nature. We must watch all animals and plants and keep them safe. I would propose the following. SAVE A TREE WIPE YOUR A$$ WITH AN OWL!

[Karl F]

they work wonders...
feral cats are pissa too!

[fishweewee]

take a walk in your combat boots and STOMP on those little buffalo wings.

[Slipknot]

I guess you need a fox out there.

Those little birds should have their santuary on Nomans Island and that would be all.

[beachwalker]

Thanks guys.

This hurts. Loosing a spot like the Point is tough to take.

We'l eventually get it back but this whole Plover thing is really quite a joke. There are so many Black backs and other gulls out there that I'll be amazed if these chicks last a week.

And there ARE feral cats there

Mentioning that brought a smile to my face. Thanks Karl

I'll keep an eye on things out there.

Still a billion great spots in that area !

Had a 36" at First Point Friday morning

Does anyone know how many of these Plovers there are in the world ?

I mean how close are we to not having them anymore ?

[fishweewee]

How many plovers does it take to make a meal?

Kentucky Fried Plover, yum.

[PNG]

The Point... Thats tough.

[BigBo]

Tastes like chicken! The five little guys wouldn't even make up a decent appetizer.
More killed by wildlife (skunks, raccoons, coyotes, cats, etc) than by humans, but yet we're the ones that are singled out as destructive to their survival. What exactly is their contribution to the ecosystem?

[beachwalker]

I think they use the to raise revenue.

$25,000 if you kill one.

But a gull can swoop on down and pick one up.

Oh, but it is soooooooooo natural.

[Karl F]

You make a good point beachwalker. I don't think anyone truly knows how many plovers there are. My neighor across the street is a commercial fisherman out of Chatham. He said there are thousands of them on the little uncharted islands out there, he always says, "Who counts them?". Doesn't old Charles Darwin's theory, the "survival of the fittest" count towards anything, or is common sense not part of the Endangered Species program. Well I should say Threatened Species, as the plover is now officially not Endangered, anymore.
Another interesting note, closures are not mandatory, that is left to the discretion of the beach managers, under the rules for Threatened Species.

If a plover craps on my truck, is that Endangered Feces?


Godd luck with them cats

[Mr. Sandman]

Beachwalker , I thought you were the one saying its a good thing to shut these place down?...limits beach pressure and all

Anyway we were close for the summer but low and behold the "skunks" got the 4 eggs (one mating pair) and we are now open to vehicle triffic till next june. (Guess that guy I paid off to snatch those eggs worked out...) (just kidding)

While I don't want the birds to become endangered, I think they should JUST PICK UP AND MOVE THE NESTS AND PARENTS TO NOMANS or some local island that has no people. They spend more time #^&#^&#^&#^&ing with these dumb birds the cost should be focused on transplanting them not babysitting them.We have a right to use the beach too. It is just not for the birds.

Further, I noticed that they blame most of the bird deaths on natural predators (gulls, skunks ect) and weather (storms) not SUV's .

1) The birds are dumb, they build their nest on the sand they belong to get eaten, its natures way or culling the stupid.

2) The nature-nuts never seem to do anything about the the big part of the probem (here at least)...skunks!! These were not native to MV, some evironmentalist thought it would be a good idea to introduce them to the island. He is dead now and we have a million skunks with no natural enemies destroying and stinking up the place. How about we pay someone to remove all the skunks and charge the cost to the estate of the evironmental-whako who introduced them in the first place !

I wonder if they will get upset if I introduce some mountain lions.

[beachwalker]

Sandman,

Thank you for the assumption.

Back up and read the previous posts concerning beach pressure. That is if you feel like it. There was NEVER a mention of the Plover influence.

I don't think ANY of them will survive. Then I will have to listen to the bird huggers lamneting the loss of the precious plovers. Ugh !

Here's to sticking with the facts: One closed section of beach because of the plovers. Without the rangers there would be NO control of the situation.

That is what I mean about beach management.

I am happy that the rangers are there. Just a little peevedwith the frickin' birds right now. I am not alone.

[Karl F]

Ya know what don't make sense to me? I've got a National Seashore report from 2 or 3 years ago.. finding that nests near ORV's and foot traffic from people had a higher rate of survival, due to the fact that the increased people/vehicle traffic, kept the predators away, and that the few that were run over/stepped on, were less than what the predators would have got.

So, why the closures? Coyote, fox, feral cat, skunks, raccoons, last I knew they can't read the signs, and they don't give a rats arse about a fence, or an enclosure, just another obstacle, that they WILL overcome. Closures just make somebody feel like they are doing something, I guess.....

Powers that be don't want to hear it or change it, and interestingly enough, you cannot obtain any more copies of that report, and the people that compiled the info, have been... transferred, to another National Park.

[fishsmith]

If you get a change take a look at the space left to drive onto Plymouth beach, from a boat the two cones on the beach look like a make shift soccer goal, but they are the parking. And I tried to go fishing in duxbury the other night but past 8 pm, you cannot drive past the first crossover. according one of the harbormasters, they've never seen more plovers.
When does logic prevail?
Bird lovers must have some serious $$$$ to get the enforcement they receive.

[Karl F]

Another issue with the bird folks, in the nesting areas like Monomoy, they will pay a sharpshooter to kill the fox, and the coyote. They will pay a pest control guy to round up and remove, and euthinize skunks. They will feed poison to 2 or 3 different species of gulls.
Considering this, are they truly, Nature Lovers?

[beachwalker]

Ah but that overlooks their caveat: The Endangered/threatened species.

The Endangered/threatened species my ass ! Endangered/threatened by naturally occuring predators.

I don't want to hear any crap about introduced this and that.
The earth huggers claim that white tailed deer were "introduced" to Nantucket. That is baloney. At the same time we have a SERIOUS Lyme disease issue which is sustained by the 3000 + deer that live here. Do you think for one second that these Earth huggers would consider killing off bambi to save a human life ?

Not on your life. They would dig out the "Real" story about the deer which is they have been here since the place was formed by the glaciers 10-000 to 20,000 years ago.

It burns me up some days

[SeaWolf]

breachwalker, sorry to hear about the great point closure. i am not sure if you or the law enforcement up there want to push the issue, but usf&w can only close the beach once the birds hatch for only 25 days or until the chicks fledge (fly), whatever comes first. i'd mark that day and then ask questions. you can't beat them now, but it is in their rules.

although the plover is threatened, it is still on the endangered species act. the plovers are divided into 3 groups or regions - atlantic coast, great lakes, and great plains populations. the great lakes pop is endangered. the other 2 are threatened. they will continue to be on the endangered species act until both the numbers increase and the species has 5 (i believe it is) consecutive years of successful breeding seasons. one year messes up the average. if north carolina has a bad year and mass has a record year, we all suffer for the one bad state. it's a very, very difficult issue.

for 2001, the atlantic coast population of the plover was tallied at 1525 breeding pairs.

you will not beat usf&w, so it's useless to argue and fight, to a degree. but, you can work with them and get the bird out of this situation. the bird will be around for a long time. so will the people w/ the money to donate towards their survival.

wow, smith's is almost an island now? been a few years since i've been there. i'd hate to see another channel w/ smith's being an island now.

[capesams]

last time I was on great point , the seals had taken it over..they had telephone wire strung all the way across so you couldn't fish it. [an no, the seals didn't string the wire]

[beachwalker]

Thanks Seawolf,

7/12 was the hatch day. One pair and I believe the number of chicks is 3 !

The rangers are being excellent and communicative. The information you have provided is great. I will check in with tomorrow and see what the latest is.

Smith's Point is undrivable on the outside immediately from the acces point. We had some big swell this winter with directly onshore winds and tore a hundred or so yards of beach away.
There is roughly only 100 yards left and it is through to Madaket Harbor. One big storm or hurricane and it will be through.
The interesting part is that it is the same spot where it broke through in 1981 to create Esthers Island (Hurricane Esther was the storm).
Madaket harbor could use a flush and I wouldn't be too bummed if this happened. I am sure it could enhance the fishing there.

So we aren't driving out to the absolute Point this year. We are hoping they create an inside track with what is left and there are NO plovers nesting there this year. But it 's a bit late to start bothering them for access. The walk is worth it. Still a fantastic area for Bass, etc.

Thank you again.

[beachwalker]

Capesams,

That was the year that people tried to promote the sport of Harbor seal petting. It didn't take off and a few of the early participants got chewed on.
Darwinism at work again. They whined so much that the wire went up. It was kind of comical.

One thing though. At night I have almost been bit on the leg after I stumbled over a seal while fishing in the PITCH SO F"ING BLACK YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY IMAGINE IT. It scaress the living bejesus out of ya'.
Doesn't affect the catching at all. That spot is damn good !

And then there are the ghosts.............

[Raven]

FISHERMEN ARE ALSO AN ENDANGERED SPECIES!

[capesams]

one of the guys said scr** the seals an started down to see how close he could get to the point, well he didn't get very far. one of those big boys came after him. those suckers sure can flop some fast across the sand. this guy is over 6 feet an skinny an bare footed runing as fast as he could, that seal was only a few feet behind him

[shore manic]

terns nesting! i fish long beach in plymouth 4 wheels only.month back there were signs tern nesting up but if i walked the beach maybe 1/4 mile i could get to my spot without bothering anything. sat. night i go out there and the beach is wired sign to sign 3'off the low water mark. i'm pretty respectfull and won't go in marked off areas but i think they've gone overboard on this move.

[Broadbill]

Beachwalker -

I feel your pain. I made that hike from the notch in the Galls all the way to the point on a couple of July days two decades ago when they first started the closings (and restricted a lot more area). I'd walked for what seemed like hours with a heavy old honey Lami rod and surf bag but the lighthouse never seemed to get closer. Go see Bill Pew and ask him to show you the decoy and Piping Plover plaque I carved for him. It has instructions for snagging and cooking the birds.

That said, as Sea Wolf points out, there are only about 1600 breeding pairs of Piping Plovers on the entire east coast. If there were only 1600 pair of breeding striped bass, we'd all be camped on the DMF and statehouse steps with placards and petitions. Cut the birds a little slack; fall is better at the point anyway. Tight lines.

[JohnR]

Smith's is an island again right? It was once an Island with Esther's? Curious minds....

BB - welcome to Striped-Bass....

[beachwalker]

Broadbill,

Thank you and your right. I was suffering from Point closure shock syndrome (PCSS) when I first replied. I am sobering a bit now !

I'll talk to Bill about the plaque.

There are still a ton of good places out there to fish as well as a million or so around this pile of sand.

Tight lines !