SB stocks dwindling

[hq2]

Wow. Pretty bad. Getting back to 1980s levels.

https://www.onthewater.com/chesapeak...st-in-10-years

Guys, may be time for another moratorium. Looking worse all the time.

[Got Stripers]

Targeted stripers one day this year and aside from the two days last summer I couldn’t resist joining in the incredible big bass fishing out in front of my home, it’s my new norm. I’m fishing for good eaters and if some schoolies happen to be in the mix so be it. Many of us were unlucky to live through one crash and lucky to have some amazing fishing after the rebound. Not enough years left for me to worry about it, but I’d be ok with a complete shutdown, better yet make them a game fish.

[piemma]

[ Not enough years left for me to worry about it, but I’d be ok with a complete shutdown, better yet make them a game fish.[/QUOTE]

Bob, I have been preaching Gamefish since 2006 or 7. Comms will never let it happen.

[Nebe]

When all the corruption gets out of the regulatory process, only then will things change I think.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

A big part of the problem is the rec. release mortality so gamefish will help but is not the solution. It will certainly help. Maybe closed seasons like the winter and during breeding periods in certain areas??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[clambo]

Years ago there was a moratorium on Striper fishing. At the same time I saw spotter plane images of schools in the hundreds of thousands taken offshore around 100 miles. So it seems that if there are fewer fish inshore where the counts are taking place ergo there must be fewer fish. This is sloppy science! The Stripers were offshore feeding on ocean Herring as blackback Herring inshore have been depleted by commercial fishing and a lack of oversite by the very agencies that were supposed to protect them. This may always be happening until all areas where Stripers are located are looked at.

[afterhours]

Originally Posted by piemma

[ Not enough years left for me to worry about it, but I’d be ok with a complete shutdown, better yet make them a game fish.

I have been preaching Gamefish since 2006 or 7. Comms will never let it happen.[/QUOTE]


Been preaching this for the last decade or two. Moratorium now for sure.

[afterhours]

Originally Posted by PaulS

A big part of the problem is the rec. release mortality so gamefish will help but is not the solution. It will certainly help. Maybe closed seasons like the winter and during breeding periods in certain areas??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What's the acknowledged mortality rate amongst recs? Probably a goog thing as all guys I know would do most anything to avoid killing one. Something has to be done.

[hq2]

The number I have typically seen for mortality
rates is about 10%.

[bloocrab]

The current 3" slot-window is ridiculous..... shut it down already -
(it still maintains the same amount of pressure on the stocks, angers more "googs" when the fish is outside that window for a not-so-pleasant release... it may have made sense scientifically & statistically on paper, but in reality, I don't see it helping AT ALL...

IF they REALLY wanted to help this fishery, they'd institute an entire shut-down including the ENTIRE east coast for 5-7 years, then return to a 36"+ @1fish...and while they're at it, take a 3-5 year break on sea-herring/menhaden harvesting.... . . . ...... sumbuddyslapme, I'm dreaming, ... .


off to find me sum rubba-lipps

[JohnR]

We've only been crying out about this for a decade.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by afterhours

What's the acknowledged mortality rate amongst recs? Probably a goog thing as all guys I know would do most anything to avoid killing one. Something has to be done.

As was stated the mortality is est. at 10%.

What I meant was the following:

"From 2018-2021, recreational release mortality made up
50% of total removals, with recreational harvest making up 37%, commercial harvest making up 11%, and commercial discards making up 2% of the total"

So even with gamefish status, maybe some comms will still fish, and the people who kept fish will now release all of them, we are killing more than 50% of all fish we catch. I used to fish all winter when it was decent out and could catch as many fish as I wanted. I haven't done that for a while as it has gotten crazy w/the amount of people I see out in the winter now.

[wdmso]

now release all of them, we are killing more than 50% of all fish we catch.

I just don’t buy 50% of total removals, with recreational harvest making up 37%, of release mortality

And having more recreational fisherman does not translate that they are all targeting and catching Bass

But for them to claim commercial harvest making up 11%, and commercial discards making up 2% of the total" release deaths.

Is crazy. They are taking the breeding stock they are removing with no slot limit
Just 36 or larger

We see the same madness with Black Sea bass. Rec 16.5 4 fish Comms 12 in. 100 lb. If pots 500 lbs

Fluke. Min: 16.5 5 fish .. comm 14in 600lbs

Guess how many Black sea bass and fluke keepers I saw. This year. 3 sea bass and no keeper Fluke. Striped Bass in the 28 -31 inch range. maybe 10. Kept 3. Over 31inch 25 plus .. even Albies I have not caught 10. And I’ve spent hours chasing them.

I fish a lot …. Yet the avg rec guy gets out 2 days a month 90% fish from shore the rest a boat…. I doubt their trips are always lights out….
And this is why I’m skeptical of the fish, mortality rates, based on license, recreational or commercial

[Mike P]

I honestly think that I never killed 10% of the bass that I released, but based on what I saw over the years, I have no problem believing it as an across the board figure.

I started noticing a decline in the fishery around 2010. By 2012, I figured, that's it for me. I walked away and never looked back.

In fact, some of my best fishing memories, the most fun I ever had, were those all-tide bluefish blitzes on MV, in the late 1980s and 1990s. I had a small group of friends that I fished with, off Islanders and natives, and we had a blast catching teen blues from the beach. Bass were an obsession, usually a solo quest, and I'd often leave pissed off after a bad night. I can't say that it was always fun.

[fishgolf]

I had a chance to visit the Weekapaug fire beaches yesterday around noon.
I used to live there and fished there since I was 9 years old. There were at least 50 people fishing the beach from the rocks all the way down to Quonnie (I had binoculars).
Have never seen that many people fishing there before, even when RIMS was in its heyday. And there were a dozen boats fishing along the shoreline as well. Many more offshore from Weekapaug point to the Weekapaug breachway. That's a lot more rec pressure than "normal". Not sure what the draw was, though there were fish and bait available. One fly-fisherman remarked he caught 5 mackerel and two stripers on the beach.

[Linesider82]

Originally Posted by fishgolf

I had a chance to visit the Weekapaug fire beaches yesterday around noon.
I used to live there and fished there since I was 9 years old. There were at least 50 people fishing the beach from the rocks all the way down to Quonnie (I had binoculars).
Have never seen that many people fishing there before, even when RIMS was in its heyday. And there were a dozen boats fishing along the shoreline as well. Many more offshore from Weekapaug point to the Weekapaug breachway. That's a lot more rec pressure than "normal". Not sure what the draw was, though there were fish and bait available. One fly-fisherman remarked he caught 5 mackerel and two stripers on the beach.

Surf club challenge (tournament) was happening.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by clambo

Years ago there was a moratorium on Striper fishing. At the same time I saw spotter plane images of schools in the hundreds of thousands taken offshore around 100 miles. So it seems that if there are fewer fish inshore where the counts are taking place ergo there must be fewer fish. This is sloppy science! The Stripers were offshore feeding on ocean Herring as blackback Herring inshore have been depleted by commercial fishing and a lack of oversite by the very agencies that were supposed to protect them. This may always be happening until all areas where Stripers are located are looked at.

So if the stripers were everywhere, and they are now only "offshore," and they are unsuccessful at breeding year after year, it is a pretty good scientific conclusion that there is a problem. I can't figure out what you mean by your last sentence. What would change "all areas" are looked at? Do you mean we would realize there is no problem? What you suggest seems like not sloppy science, but bad science.

[PaulS]

Changing/bad environmental factors has hurt the spawning for the last # of years, increased fishing pressure from more people fishing and better equipment (side scanning sonar, internet, etc) and techniques have all combined to hurt the stocks.

[rphud]

I don't know the numbers but the warm waters in the spawning grounds are likely the real issue. Not sure how reduced the spawning population is, but I am hearing that is only a part of the problem.

There will have to be periods when targeting is shut down if they really want to fix this any time soon with what they have the ability to do.

Maybe an El Nino winter will help the water, maybe.

[Mike P]

The Hudson stock appears to be in better shape, but it represents only a small percentage of the east Coast biomass.

[JFigliuolo]

Don't forget about how many juvenile fish are killed as by catch to the shrimping industry, which has fired up in Maryland, and Virginia in addition to the existing fishery in NC. I've read that the by-catch is ~90% of the haul.

[piemma]

Guys, the fact of the matter is the management of the species has failed. There's no way around it. We had world class fishing after the moratorium because no one was killing fish. Yes, there was a certain amount of mortality due to poor C&R release techniques but we had a massive amount of fish in all sizes.

I'm seeing reports from guys in Maryland that there are NO micro bass, few schoolies and nothing in the pipeline.

How many years will it take until the management people realize what the hell is really happening? The 28" to 31" isn't the answer. The googans kill everything they catch anyway. I saw a guy in the Canal, in June, catch 3 fish in the 30# range and carried each one up to his truck and put it in the cab, in back of the seat.

I don't think anyone is paying attention. Just shut it down. No C&R (I know hard to police), but if something doesn't happen soon, the only Stripers that will be caught will be in your dreams.

[clambo]

What I mean is if the count inshore is low then the scientists say there are few Stripers. Until all areas where Stripers go, offshore and inshore are looked at how does one get an accurate count. I don't believe they can and will continue to give a flawed count.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by clambo

What I mean is if the count inshore is low then the scientists say there are few Stripers. Until all areas where Stripers go, offshore and inshore are looked at how does one get an accurate count. I don't believe they can and will continue to give a flawed count.

It is impossible to survey every area. When stripers are abundant, they are found throughout their range; inshore, offshore, etc. We also know where they reproduce and reproductive success has been generally poor overall for a long time. Some schools offshore don't change that. It is like when the big schools were on the block and nowhere else in the early 80's and people on those fish thought stocks were great. No they weren't. Stripers basically didn't exist in the Chesapeake for a decade. Those videos you saw were circumstantial evidence at best. It isn't the science that is a problem, it is the power of special interests and the politician's they feed.

[Got Stripers]

[QUOTE=zimmy;1242791It isn't the science that is a problem, it is the power of special interests and the politician's they feed.[/QUOTE]

Same probably in so many things, fisheries, politics and other industries, you hit the nail on the head.

[hq2]

Originally Posted by Mike P

I honestly think that I never killed 10% of the bass that I released, but based on what I saw over the years, I have no problem believing it as an across the board figure.

I started noticing a decline in the fishery around 2010. By 2012, I figured, that's it for me. I walked away and never looked back.

In fact, some of my best fishing memories, the most fun I ever had, were those all-tide bluefish blitzes on MV, in the late 1980s and 1990s. I had a small group of friends that I fished with, off Islanders and natives, and we had a blast catching teen blues from the beach. Bass were an obsession, usually a solo quest, and I'd often leave pissed off after a bad night. I can't say that it was always fun.

Yeah, for bluefish dem’s was the days. Used to troll up lots of nice 2-3 pound blues off Horseneck and Gooseberry back then; tried a few weeks ago and only caught one. That’s what’s sad about things now; back then you could at least catch blues, but now there ain’t much of either. Don’t know when either will come back; won’t be any time soon.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Mike P

I honestly think that I never killed 10% of the bass that I released, but based on what I saw over the years, I have no problem believing it as an across the board figure.

I started noticing a decline in the fishery around 2010. By 2012, I figured, that's it for me. I walked away and never looked back.

In fact, some of my best fishing memories, the most fun I ever had, were those all-tide bluefish blitzes on MV, in the late 1980s and 1990s. I had a small group of friends that I fished with, off Islanders and natives, and we had a blast catching teen blues from the beach. Bass were an obsession, usually a solo quest, and I'd often leave pissed off after a bad night. I can't say that it was always fun.

Those big blue days were insane. For almost a month my buddies and I would motor just outside Scituate harbor and decide which endless bird action we wanted to go in. For as for as you could see north or south, birds were everywhere and we caught double digit gators until our arms were sore.

[bloocrab]

What's the cause of the Bloofish decline?...does that fall on the recreationlal sector too or is it really all Clammer's fault?

The lack of inshore blitzing over the last 10 years or so is increasingly getting worse. The number of individual schools are fewer, the size of the blitzing school itself is so much smaller...the fish numbers just aren't there. That always helped drive my own-personal science-perspective....the times of year when you should expect to see masses of migrating fish spring&fall, but the schools are smaller and fewer. These fish haven't been skipping the inshore route all these years, they just don't exist... I think people have just grown accustomed to it or forgot how insane it used to be in the fall. Sure there are still some good blitzes every now and then, but they dont' hold a candle to the blitzes of years ago.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by bloocrab

What's the cause of the Bloofish decline?...does that fall on the recreationlal sector too or is it really all Clammer's fault?

The lack of inshore blitzing over the last 10 years or so is increasingly getting worse. The number of individual schools are fewer, the size of the blitzing school itself is so much smaller...the fish numbers just aren't there. That always helped drive my own-personal science-perspective....the times of year when you should expect to see masses of migrating fish spring&fall, but the schools are smaller and fewer. These fish haven't been skipping the inshore route all these years, they just don't exist... I think people have just grown accustomed to it or forgot how insane it used to be in the fall. Sure there are still some good blitzes every now and then, but they dont' hold a candle to the blitzes of years ago.

Bunker

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Those big blue days were insane. For almost a month my buddies and I would motor just outside Scituate harbor and decide which endless bird action we wanted to go in. For as for as you could see north or south, birds were everywhere and we caught double digit gators until our arms were sore.

There were days when I had to rack the rod because I was too sore to catch even one more blue. Fish from 13 to almost 20 pounds, one day in particular, where there was just enough of a small rip to make moving one out of it a lot of work. I'd feel it the next morning, too.