Anyone here ever lease/get free solar system - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

UserRemoved1 · 12-06-2011, 04:43 PM

Curious if anyone has taken anyone up on these lease a solar system for your house programs. They give you a free solar system installed and you pay them for your electricity?

PRBuzz · 12-06-2011, 04:48 PM

That seems to be the way to go now where I bought mine!

Gloucester2 · 12-06-2011, 05:13 PM

Scott - I had a friend look into it . . . the way it works for the outfit she talked to you agree to let them install the equipment - they did a site visit and all to see if her house had the capacity/exposure for the solar equipment . . . depending upon whether the panels produce more or less power than you consume determines whether "sell" electricity to "the grid" or buy from the grid (after factoring some payback for the cost of the equipment installed) - all in all it was a real long term commitment with no guaranty it would reduce costs - she took a pass . . . <she's a single Mom with teenagers . . . guess that's enough risk for her>

UserRemoved1 · 12-06-2011, 05:44 PM

Yea I got a meeting with a guy tonite for this. Kinda what I figured. Tnx G2!

UserRemoved1 · 12-06-2011, 07:46 PM

Actually what she told you isn't true. It will definitely reduce your costs. I signed. I got 4 mos to cancel at no obligation

They say I can handle 26 panels, 6600 watts per year. I figured out my average is 12,400 watts per year I buy from nat grid. I pay them for the 6600w. I pay nat grid for whatever I use beyond that. Nat Grid is increasing 6% per year, these guys don't they figure a flat wattage price. If I took this months (very low) electric bill of $141, I would pay the ratio of the 6600vs12400 to national grid and a flat charge to the solar people. During the day if I generate more than what I use I get energy credits. At night when the panels aren't producing it takes those credits back. At the end of the year if they don't generate 6600w then they give me a check in hand for what it cost me to buy that electricity from Nat Grid (.15kwh)

On top of that I get 6600 watts of power or roughly half of what my house needs at a fixed rate for 20 years. Currently half of what I'm paying.. GUARANTEED.

If the system doesn't generate what they expect they will come and take it out and make the house whole again. They insure this, they own it, if anything happens to it they repair it, they replace it, whatever it takes.

BUT they get all the rebates, the green subsidies, the tax credits, etc etc.

He says the systems cost $35k....I don't believe it.

They are giving me references as many as I want..free to call and speak with people who have the systems. He says it increases the selling value of the house by roughly $15k and people have been enticed with houses that are setup for green living so houses sell better. It transfers to whoever buys the house if we sell it.

Fly Rod · 12-08-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

He says it increases the selling value of the house by roughly $15k and people have been enticed with houses that are setup for green living so houses sell better. It transfers to whoever buys the house if we sell it.

Did you get this part in writing?

In today's world of real estate you can install a 40,000 dollar kitchen and you will not get your money back. Buyer's today expect granite counter tops and stainless appliances today with the low ball offer that they present to seller.

UserRemoved1 · 12-06-2011, 07:55 PM

sunrun solar

Nebe · 12-06-2011, 08:09 PM

Thank Obama

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

UserRemoved1 · 12-06-2011, 08:14 PM

cahm help me o'bama cahm help me

Hi nebe

WESTPORTMAFIA · 12-06-2011, 10:40 PM

Sounds like a call to Pakistan.
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WESTPORTMAFIA · 12-06-2011, 10:45 PM

And if they said it increases the selling value by anything I call BS because that's not true one bit. If they told you that they probably told you other BS. You met with a salesman.
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UserRemoved1 · 12-07-2011, 04:56 AM

WPM I read it on another website also.

Why do you say it doesn't? An article I read last night said people PREFER PPA's and that it can save alot of money.

Sea Dangles · 12-07-2011, 11:27 AM

Resale disaster for the general public. May not take a pounding if you find a niche buyer.Like most alternative power sources it costs more to produce than you actually save. Hence the Obama handouts for creativity.Whenever you use an unconventional system such as this it certainly can not be considered an investment.

JohnnyD · 12-07-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Resale disaster for the general public. May not take a pounding if you find a niche buyer.Like most alternative power sources it costs more to produce than you actually save. Hence the Obama handouts for creativity.Whenever you use an unconventional system such as this it certainly can not be considered an investment.

I don't think unconventional necessarily means, bad idea. If that were the case, we would not have any level of innovation. For instance, in other countries, passive-rooftop hot water heaters are the norm. In the States, it's an unconventional way of heating your home water. I know a couple people that installed passive systems and will break-even on the investment within 5 years - and that's in Massachusetts. Move that same system further South and the break-even point would be even sooner.

However with solar, most systems aren't efficient enough for this area... yet. With subsidies, solar in our region doesn't make sense. The technology is there though, that within 5 years, the efficiency and storage capacity could be worth the investment.

I'll agree with you in one aspect though... some of these "creative programs" are just a way of putting lipstick on a pig - spinning a poor idea and making it look favorable.

UserRemoved · 12-07-2011, 12:44 PM

Resale disaster...
Taking a pounding...

I'm all ears would like to see specific examplese cuz I'm not finding this

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles;9057S95

Resale disaster for the general public. May not take a pounding if you find a niche buyer.Like most alternative power sources it costs more to produce than you actually save. Hence the Obama handouts for creativity.Whenever you use an unconventional system such as this it certainly can not be considered an investment.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PRBuzz · 12-07-2011, 12:47 PM

With my PV electric I've figured that the payback based solely upon $ saved on electricity produced is >20yrs. That is also based on 50-60% of the capital/installation costs reimbursed via grants/tax reductions. It is only when you make assumptions that the system will add XX amount to the selling price of the home do you get paybacks in <10yrs.

UserRemoved1 · 12-07-2011, 04:42 PM

I bounced this off someone today that has extensive experience with these ppa's and he says the devil is in the details...but in my case because it's a 6600kwh system per year and it's well below the yearly level of 12,400 kwh so in my case he says I will save quite a bit of money. Especially in 10 years when the rates will be even higher than they are now.

JohnnyD · 12-07-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

Especially in 10 years when the rates will be even higher than they are now.

That's the other thing... people calculate the break-even point using current energy costs (this is also how the big electric companies try to convince people of how bad an idea solar is). On the other hand, with inflation and ever-increasing energy costs, the break-even point moves much closer.

UserRemoved1 · 12-07-2011, 04:43 PM

Now I'm wondering if the system is too small...

PRBuzz · 12-08-2011, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

Now I'm wondering if the system is too small...

SIZE: Go as big as your roof permits OR to the limits of the rebates/tax credits. You (or the leasee) don't want to bear the full costs of the PV size above rebates. I was limited to as 3.45KW system by the rebates not the roof area.

ROOFING: yes replacing a roof can be an issue, make sure the current roof surface will last 20+ years. I had new 40yr shingles installed a couple years before installing the PV array.

SNOW: I am able most of the time to accelerate the removal of snow from the panels manually, if you don't you might lose several days production on decent sized storms.

SHADE: check not only your own property but trees in the neighbor's yard might cast a shadow, especially this time of year, not that you can do anything about it.

UserRemoved1 · 12-07-2011, 05:16 PM

There's no break even point here. Right now I'm paying .15 a kwh and using 12400kwh a year. They're offering to sell me 6600 kwh at .15 a kwh or whatever it was. The rest I pay to Nat Grid over and above what they sell to me. If the panels make 8000kwh per year I would pay for that. If they make 4000 kwh they pay the difference for what it cost me to buy from Nat Grid. And if the system doesn't perform they pull it and leave the house as original.

What do I have to break even on?? Next year my Nat Grid bill will be minimum 5% higher. But my bill is now only whatever I need above the solar panel use and I'm still paying the old rate to sunrun. In 5 years from now you could expect electric to be probably .25 per kwh and I'm still only paying .15 for the sun power. The system cost me nothing. I just agree to pay them this rate for the next 20 years.

So whats there to look at payback on for me?

On top of this the guy had no problem calling a tree guy they work with to take some trees down in the front of the house. Which needed to come down anyways...

Guess whose getting the wood. There's TWO 90' pines there. That's about 150,000 lures

JohnnyD · 12-07-2011, 05:40 PM

Ah, I get it now. So you're letting them install the panels on your property and then paying them for the electricity generated by the panels. I thought it was some kind of "lease to own" kind of thing or like PRBuzz has where he owns the panels, the asset is added to the value of the house and has the potential to increase his home's value.

With no asset gained, I can't imagine how this would increase the value of your house.

Also, what happens if the company goes under?

PRBuzz · 12-07-2011, 05:56 PM

Here's my payback calculations based upon the ave. monthly (3 yr ave) energy my system (3.45kW) produces. The 1st couple of years besides savings from Nat Grid on my electric, I could sell REC credits, originally they were $0.06 KWH but 2 years ago the price dropped to $0.03 KWH and I didn't renew the contract however for this example I have left them in.

When I first did the calc. the fully burdened costs was $0.12348 KWH (red), check this month's bill it is already up to $0.1784 over the last 5 years, what will it be 20 yrs from now? Table show another 3X increase. This is a very simple analysis just assuming you pay the same KWH rate the entire time vs. amortized in any way.

UserRemoved1 · 12-07-2011, 08:09 PM

He said it increased the value because people are turning more towards alternative energy and the fact that I signed this ppa in 10 years will be attractive to anyone that buys the house if I sell.

It's a management company if they go out of business then someone else picks it up. I asked that

I looked into the company some more. It's funded by venture capital. Backed by alot of big companies such as Home Depot etc.

PRBuzz · 12-07-2011, 08:13 PM

Go for it Salty, if I had to do over again that's the route I would take.

ProfessorM · 12-07-2011, 09:28 PM

what happens if you need to do the roof over?
My bud on Cape just bought a complete system for his house. Between rebates and such came out to about 1/3 of the original price. They don't actually buy the excess electricity off him but they let you stock pile it for lack of a better word, meter turns backwards, and then when you need to draw power like after the sun goes down you then have credit. You still need to pay the delivery charge and generation fee because you are using their lines. he is not making any more electricity than he uses each day yet but when the sun is in the sky for longer periods of time he expects to stockpile a decent amount but will take the whole year for him to get the whole idea on what it pans out to be. Let us know how it works out for you in the future as I have thought about this too.

UserRemoved1 · 12-08-2011, 05:55 AM

7 year old roof no worries. Tnx for the input Paul.

UserRemoved1 · 12-08-2011, 05:57 AM

I'd still like to hear back from Sea Dangles on the previous with examples. I looked around again last night and still didn't find any horror stories.

UserRemoved1 · 12-08-2011, 06:34 AM

They say 26 panels at 6600kwh and that will leave a 3' space on each side of the array.

I have a bunch of questions still for these guys but I'm steering towards doing this right now.

I understand these can be moved after 10 years...

What if I decide in 5 years to cut National Grid out and add additional panels...am I required to continue to pay national grid?

What if home electricity is deregulated can I then go buy my line power from anyone?

PRBuzz · 12-08-2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

I understand these can be moved after 10 years...

What if I decide in 5 years to cut National Grid out and add additional panels...am I required to continue to pay national grid?

Not sure what you mean by 10 yrs, the array can be disassembled/reassembled like an erector set anytime, like if a roof needs replacing, but of course it will cost you extra to do so.

Unless you install batteries to store the overproduced electricity during the day to use at night, you will always need a 2nd party electric provider, Nat Grid or otherwise. The batteries will cost you a fortune (likely more $$ than the PV array). BTW: in a grid connected system, if the provider looses power due to a storm: you don't make your own electricity! The DC/AC inverter has to sense power from the street. Again it is an issue of having a battery system to absorb excess power produced.