Site concerns

[gusto]

Hey there everyone. yes, iam the assh*le who posts all the crap on this site(i.e. patrick putdowns) However, i am a VERY serious fisherman who loves the sport. I am on this site all the time, always reading up on posts and other info. You may realize that I rarely post. I do this because, as you know, people from all over on on the internet these days. If you posts something about a fishing spot or location. The once deserted, peaceful spot, will become saturated with fisherman bcause they heard that you "caught a 30 incher there last week" I think you guys are harming yourselves when you give away fishing spots, make others do the work!! Also, my main concern is that when I first got on this site, it was all serious and well knowledgeable fisherman such as John R, #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Saltheart, plus others who know who they are. But iihave now been noticing that there are more beginners n this site now. When I see a post that says " what is the size limit on stripers" or "this is my first year fishing", it seriously almost makes me cry. All the post sused to be interesting and knowledgable, something that one wanted to learn more about. Know however, this site seems like a place where fisherman are out there using bobber and snoopy poles. I know we are here to help, butl ets make these beginners do some work, you guys didn't have the luxury of the internet back in the days when you were learniong how to fish. These people take it for granted. I hope you guys inderstand. in all honesty, I wish that only certain people who have expereince and knowledge would be allowed to enter the site, if there is any way to regulatew that. I know you guys probably all dislike me, but thats ok, i do however share the same amount of passion, if not more, about the sport. Just wanted to express some thoughts here. Thanks, Derek

[Dad of Squid Kid]

Gusto.......if you were such an experienced fisherman and only interested in this site for that purpose you would not have posted your iniatal question??? regarding Patrick...IIf you want to be treated as an adult start acting as one!!!!!!!!!!!

[Patrick]

Gusto,

I understand how you feel. Sometimes I feel the internet gives away too much information. It's a double edged sword though. People get to expand their horizons a little bit more. When people say it is their first year striper fishing, you should be happy that they now have the obsession too. There is power in numbers. Look at the Salty Dogs. They just got NJ to pass a bill that bans bunker reduction in their waters. The internet allowed them to get the word out and make it a group action. So while the internet can look bad at times, it also has a somewhat positive side as well.

In CT, the striper limits have changed so much. Even the years I have fished, I've seen the stripers go from 1 @36, 2@28, The old slot limit and the new slot limit. When people ask what the new limits are, that's a good sign. That means they want to obey the law. Either they don't want to be fined or they want to protect the enviroment. Either way, they put the bass back that the law protects. I don't care which reason, as long as the fish go back in the water. The people you have to worry about are the ones that don't care to ask. They just go out ignorant and take whatever fish they want.

Websites are still a great way to find information. If you are worried about the internet ruining your spots, talk to some anglers around you. Word spreads like wildfire and the next evening you can't even find a spot to stand.

So next time you go to post some information, realize that sometimes giving the gift is better than recieving it.

I don't think people were so annoyed at your "putdowns". I think they were upset more that you were so blunt about it. Not to mention using a whole post. Trust me, I've been called a lot worse and it hasn't phased anyone.

[slammer]

I am a new member to this site but by no means new to the sport of fishing. I have fished the surf and freshwater all my life but this year I decided to get into a little fly fishing. The fact of the matter is that sportsmen and sportswomen are a dying breed. What we do is viewed as cruel to the uneducated and unneccessary to the majority. These are the same people the buy gas guzzling SUV's just to drive to work in Boston everyday only to stop at Starbucks on the way to work and the way home to wait 30 minutes for a cup of coffee. This part of the population seems to be booming while ours is fading. I do not know the details but I have heard rumors that there is a Bill in front of our state legislator which would but a portion of the Fisheries and Wildlife board in the hands of PETA...if anyone knows the specifics please email them to me...this is the kind of thing that ruins our sport...not some guy who wants an escape from the 40 hour a week prison he is trapped in and wants to take up fishing. I like privacy as much as the next guy and to a certain extent there should be some spots that you should keep secret, but there is no need to withold general information for those who strive for it. I do not know your background in fishing but I seriously doubt that one day you built yourself a fly-rod and wandered the entire New England coast in search of fish until you found what you deem "your spots" You got help along the way and thats just what some people in this site are looking for. If you want to create an elitist site where only the most skilled fishermen and women are allowed in...I wish you the best of luck. Maybe you can even have some sort of initiation where you dress in gowns and whip each other with the "sacred" fly-rod. I really am sorry that you feel this way and hope this is not the general concensus of the forum. if it is please pass the word and I will gladly take my questions as well as my insight elsewhere.

[JohnR]

Hi Guys and gals,

I missed the last "exchange" that happened a few days ago, must have been sleep walking on my vacation or something...

Gusto, you said it:

You may realize that I rarely post. I do this because, as you know, people from all over on on the internet these days. If you posts something about a fishing spot or location. The once deserted, peaceful spot, will become saturated with fisherman bcause they heard that you "caught a 30 incher there last week" I think you guys are harming yourselves when you give away fishing spots, make others do the work!!

I think we have the best group of people possible here. With everyone chipping in (well, almost everyone) to help out the new people to this sport, maybe those newer folks can miss a couple of the potholes in the road that we've experienced. Those same beginners will most likely have a better understanding of the fish and of good fishing practices than I know I did when I was starting out. I wish I had a resource like this. I would have gotten bigger fish faster and would have killed a few less (inadvertantly) in the process. I also wouldn't have dropped my hard earned dollars on lousy gear as I had in the past. Many of these "beginners" have an opportunity to start off on a much better foot now AND they have the chance to be involved. I was fortunate to fish with some excellent fisherman along the way...

You have contributed very little other than starting crap under several different names. You're a good part of the reason people need to login before posting. You have the worst bitchin' to helpin' ratio on the board. Alot of bitching and very little helping... You scream that people are coughing up the good spots? I have seen very few good spots and no secret holes come up on the board. The vast majority of honey holes mentioned here are ones that everyone knows about anyway. Maybe Plum Island, Watch Hill, Montauk, Wasque, Balstons, and the Ditch were all secrets before the Internet but I don't think so.

You've got some brass ones for bitching the way that you do...

However, i am a VERY serious fisherman who loves the sport.

I haven't seen anything about you that makes me think that. Just a lot of fluff and no substance...

If you want to startup a site that caters to the true proffesional only and alienates everyone else, go for it. But I don't think you would as it takes much more effort to DO something than to bitch about it....


BTW - tell us why you are such a good and serious fisherman... But no spots please...

[Slipknot]

Patrick (06-07-2001 23:23):
Gusto,

Look at the Salty Dogs. They just got NJ to pass a bill that bans bunker reduction in their waters. The internet allowed them to get the word out and make it a group action. So while the internet can look bad at times, it also has a somewhat positive side as well.

.

Patrick, I think you are mistaken. NJ didn't pass the Bunker reduction boat ban bill yet, it has passed the Aggriculture Committee which is the hardest step. It now gets read the congress and still has many steps to go before it is law. But you are right the internet had alot to do with gathering up the troops to fight for this bill.


Slammer, believe me you don't have to go anywhere-we are not elitists. I'm sure you were just being sarcastic.

Gusto, maybe your observations about this site are just your opinion. New people to the sport have questions so they ask, I think their questions are getting answered but you also have to remember it is fishing season and we are out fishing as well (more than on the computer). Your attitude doesn't seem to reflect that you are a person that would take a kid fishing and try to start him/her off on the right foot. Lighten up a bit huh? Are you really 16 years young? If you don't like what you have been reading here lately then don't read it or go elsewhere, none of us expect all the posts to be interesting and informative. As far as spots, well mostly just general areas are given- the stripers are everywhere just go catch one and while you're at it post a picture of one that you caught so we know you are serious too.

[jettyjockey18]

gusto-

so it seems that what you're saying is that you just want to lurk on this board, suck up all available info from these posts for your own personal gain, not contribute a g.d thing and at the same time you don't want people talking about your honey holes??? then you've got the stones to start these preschool quality threads dogging members of the board???
i'm still waiting for the punchline.

[Saltheart]

The site is for everyone. Beginner , people with 3 to 5 years who are really getting good , and 35 year veterans of the sport who know every inch of the coastline. Its a serious fishing site for those who are or want to be serious striperfisherman. They all share what they can and take what they need. I often found that a beginners question has gotten me to think about something I just do but have never really thought out completely. Sometimes you refine an old habit because of the thought you put into a beginners question. Everyone benefits if its give and take.

As far as spots go , you don't know the half of it. Why don't you let the guys who know the spots decide for themselves which ones they'll share and which ones they'll protect. I will protect spots where I think access is threatened but I'll share some of my spots with whoever I want whenever I want. Each person makes that decision themself.

You say to let the beginner do his work. Well if they are on the internet asking questions , they are doing their work. Its always been considered a smart move for a beginner to look around and listen carefully while in a tackle shop. Well now the beginner can learn a lot on the internet too. People have always learned the sport from others and from reading and from time on the water. Nothing will substitute for time on the water but now in addition to magazines and books and conversations with veterans , beginners can also learn on the internet. Its just another part of learning by paying your dues.

I've made some good friends on the internet fishing boards. I give up a little of what I know about the sport and the area and in return I learm a little myself and make dozens of new friends. Damned good deal to me!

Like all the sites , this site has a personality. Yes we could put together a team of half a dozen fisherman that can fish with the best striperfishermen anywhere. We can also put together a team of beginners that will put in the effort and try as hard as anyone in the world even though at this stage they get small returns for their efforts. TheY 're all a part of this site's personality. This site has developed a personality that is helpful and particularly friendly. It's what has evolved based on the collective personalities of the people who come here. If you don't fit in with a helpful and friendly attitude , maybe you need to change or find another site. There's nothing wrong with lurking but if you are going to post , all we ask is that you be considerate of others.

[JohnR]

Well said, Saltheart...

[Mike P]

JJ18---my sentiments exactly. I have a long memory. I don't even have the tools to work with that John has, and I know he's registered here several times. If I just wanted to get info off a site, why would I register even once? I'd just lurk, read and keep hidden in the shadows. Since I can't recall Derek in any of his various identities ever contributing positively, and he's reiterated that distaste for contributing anything here again, I have to assume he registered just to be a gadfly and start trouble. I'd really like to be
proven wrong on this, Derek. Please, try.

You have an issue with Patrick in any particular thread, you're the newest member of a not-very-exclusive club. You take whatever issues you have with him up there. But posting a thread titled PATRICK IS A LOSER, which shows up in bold, blue letters on the forum home page, and inviting comments, is right out of 7th grade. That belongs on the wall of a bathroom stall in junior high school. Not really, but you get the point.

[LINESIDES]

ANOTHER POST I AM GLAD I MISSED.
NICE JOB "Saltheart" I WISH I COULD HAVE WRITTEN THAT.

[Marc Z]

It's real simple Bigshot.
If you don't like it here, don't come here!
Bye Bye.
MZ

[Clammer]

This is a great site , and I love it here and the people on it, all that talk is bull----, Thanks to them I have the desire to fish semi hard again, and they have been a great help in helping me with the shore gear I purchased, I'm going tomorrow for the people involved , not to find secret spots, hope fully a lesson in shore fishing/ as far as secret spots I was lucky enough to take a couple of members out two weeks ago/ We had a ball/ laughs and caught fish/ were they secret spots ? NO, knowing when to be there with the tides /made all the difference things in life can change your priorities real quick/ Hope you donn't have these [things].If you think this is just crap I wecome you to go fishing together any time , any place , at $10 a fish/ and well see what happens// Like the Cape tomorrow//

[Patrick]

Well, I guess I was wrong about the NJ Bunker bill thing. I haven't followed it too closely but I skim the articles I see. They are still making great strides whatever they are doing. If I was a NJer, I think I would be more involved but I can't do much from up here. Who wants to hear how they should run their government from an outsider?

Anyways, the other people are exactly right. You need to give a little to get a little. I'm not sure exactly what you want. You want a place for people to talk about fishing because you are a hardcore fisherman, but you don't want people to give away any of their secrets? We would run out of stuff to talk about in short order.

Hey MikeP, the club is exclusive and some of you guys are a little behind on your dues.

[Vogie_spinner]

I love this site. It is one of very few where you can actually get a question answered and not blown a lot of hot air just because you "asked a question" in the first place. Sounds like gusto is just an old fart if you ask me and most likely wouldn't help you out in person either. But what would I know? I'm just a beginner when it comes to salt. Country boy from the Midwest I am. No salt there. Thank you all who have taken the time to help me out. After a couple of less that positive encounters with less than willing or helpful "fisherman", I was happy to find this group online. I've read along with you guys for quite a while before I registered. Thank you for not making me "qualify" before doing so. I would still be down at the ditch bite less. This site is a blessing. Thanks again!

[RickBomba]

gusto,
I'm not sure if you fell out of the womb in your now perfect form...but I'm guessing that @ one point, you were a beginner at something. Spelling maybe, who knows.
Anyhow, now that you're the man and all, maybe you should sit back and take a look at your kingdom. It must be great!
Lets talk about where I live. I've been fishing since before I can remember, fresh and salt, and probably go 3-4 times a week in both. Strangely enough, though, I still ask questions at shops, talk to everybody I see with a line in the water, and share all of my information with EVERYBODY!
I probably have given away every honey hole I know of 50 times! Strangely enough though, I catch a rediculous amount of fish. I know this sounds a little arrogant, but its very true.
My line of reasoning is thus...If I told EVERYBODY about all of your's, mine, and everyone else's special fishing spots that I know of, and consequentially, these people all went there and fished, then why am I still catching so many fish and having such a great time?
I think you're literally "missing the boat" on this one. I feel its much more important to read a spot, know bait seasonality as well as prevailing weather and tide conditions, and other factors that lead one to become a great fisherman (sorry). You try using one of those snoopy poled bobber rigs and the wrong bait or lure and see what you bring in. Derek I guarantee these people are not catching your fish!
Maybe you should try sharing what you know with old Mr. Snoopy Pole, though. It helps with the bitter taste in the mouth.
Rick (I gave away all your good spots today, too)

[denis]

gusto

I'm 53 been fishing since 8 or so, salt fresh caught little sun fish to giant bluefin,but I have never fished the DITCH so if I were to plan on going I would post something like this (this will be my first time fishing the ditch what type of rod should I use light,med, heavy action any help will be appreciated thanks)and i'm sure I'd get lots of
good advice,nobody knows evreything,(some think they do)
about spots I only have one secret spot and thats because of parking,not because someone is going to catch MY fish.

rickBomba said it all ,you know where,but do you know when, how ,
and with what

Slammer
easy with the flyrod,hope it's a slow action

[gusto]

aight then, if you guys all want to expose all your spots to the public thats fine with me, i was just making a suggesion. And no, i dont get my info from this site because all of it if worth less to me, such basic info. I find stuff out form myself, and thus, am proably a better fisherman than most of yiou, thats my honest opionion. Im also probably a quarter the age of all you guys on here, but yes, can still iout fish most of you already.

[JohnR]

LMAO Gusto - do you really believe that or are you just trolling??

[Jaiem]

Ah, Gusto.

Assuming the average age of the people here is 35 to 40 that would make you 8.75 to 10 y/o

[Saltheart]

Its a simple thing Gusto. Stop bragging , grab your pole , and show up at the next tourney. We'll see who catches what.

[JohnR]

That's correct Jaiem - As a matter of fact - today I turned 33, that would make Gusto, let's see, gotta load calc.exe - maybe he can do math better than me too - uh, 8 years old...

[Fishpart]

I hope you taught yourself to fish better than you taught yourself to spell....

[Swimmer]

Another pat on the back for SALTHEART, well said sir, well said.
I think if anyone feels disenfranchised (I like that word) to the degree Gusto is he should start his own website on the kitchen table like somebody I know, and nurture it, burp it, cajole it, dehack it, and sometimes gently kick it to get it jump started when it crashes, so he to could really understand what it takes to humor us all like JOHN R. does. I understand how frustrating it is to find your favorite spots published on the internet, but if someone knew enough about the spot to put it here or somewhere else it really wasn't much of a secret.
When I started fishing the Vineyard in the early 70's it took me years to find some of the most common places there were to fish. The locals (islanders) thought it was a joke to be mean and nasty even sending you in the opposite direction. The native vineyarders were much more giving of fishing information. I can't be that way though to anyone. I'll even show them the way to go sometimes now. Everything we do or say should lend to a positive end to the day so that the day itself is as fulfilling as it possibly can be. The fishermen/women in many respects are the last vestige of cordial sporting behavior that is to be found. Lets keep it that way. One more thing, I remember on Wide World of Sports one time Curt Gowdy was doing an end of the show interview with a guy in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, when in answer to a Gowdy prompt the old guy says if heaven ain't like Jackson Hole I don't want to go. Well if heaven ain't got no fishing I dont want to go either. So lets not muck it up. What do you say. Be kind all, and kiss the first bass you catch everyday.

The swimmer

[Clammer]

AMEN --- Swimmer##

[Patrick]

If he's a quarter of my age, he's 4 and a half. At that age, I doubt he could read a book, nevermind the water.

[JohnR]

Thanks Swimmer, there is a little more to the site than removing the shrinkwrap and inserting a disk... But it's worth it.

Gusto, this site is not meant to be a replacement for the few people you trade info with to find out which of your secret honey holes is hot and which is not. This is different and I hope you understand this. This site is a mix of learning, a little fun, and a little in mind for the fish. I've met and fished with some incredible fishermen and not one of them has learned every last thing about fishing on their own. There is a lot that was self taught but they were all under someone's wing at some point...

[Blitzseeker]

Gusto,

If you don't like this site, go find another. I've been to them all, and if you find one that has friendlier people, more knowledgable people or is more focused on the type of fishing I'm interested in(surf fishing in New England), please let me know.

If you don't want to post your spots, don't post your spots. It's not like I fish anywhere all that secret, but I generally don't post where I catch my fish. I suggest you take the same approach & stop posting things to incite the crowd, or else save yourself the aggravation and stop coming around here.

[chris L]

take a hike gusto ( full of hotair ) . hes like mcveigh , dont give him the attention he wants . if you dont like it here dont come here its voluntary you ........!

[Patrick]

Okay Chris,

I'm not a big fan of Gusto but comparing him to a man (if you can call him that)that murdered 168 people in cold blood in any context is a little bit too far. Sorry, just my opinion.

Gusto, I have to agree with the other guys on this site. No one makes you stay. No one makes you post. No one decides what you post but you. You contribute what you want and take away what you want. Just like the rest of us. What you have to decide, is it worth it? I don't think you should leave. Even the best person can learn something. But if you want to learn the one thing that has to go is the know it all persona.

I know it sounds a bit hypocritical coming from me but I have learned a lot from these guys no matter what I know. I like to believe I know quite a bit but you never know when you pick up something new. Why cut yourself off from a learning experience?