Viable Egg Answer from Ma. Div. of Marine Fisheries

[tattoobob]

Hi Bob,

In response to your questions:

A 40 pound striped bass is only about 15-18 years old. Considering they
can reach 25-30 years old, these 40 pounders are in their prime breeding
age. Recent evidence coming out for many fish species indicates that
the older spawners have better egg quality (more yolk resulting in
better larval survival). The healthiest condition of a stock is to have
a wide range of ages. All else being equal, a spawning biomass
containing many ages is reproductively better than the same amount of
biomass containing only young spawners.

Hope that answers your question.

Regards,
Mike

************************************************** **************
Michael *. ***********, Ph.D.
Program Manager - Recreational and Anadromous Fisheries
Annisquam River Marine Fisheries Station
Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries

[labrax]

Thanks for posting that info - it might put to rest some of the often repeated postings that these fish are past their prime, that the viability of the eggs is less, so it is better to take them than a smaller fish. I am not against taking fish, but using that justification for taking the bigger females no longer seems to hold water.

[Pete_G]

Well done Bob. Good to see some truth for a change on 40+ pound fish.

I'm not exactly the "I told you so" type, but I hope some of the people that have argued me over time over this topic read that response.

[scoobe]

Very interesting post... but it is not a valid arugment.

First of all, just because a fish is only half way through its life expectancy does not equate to 'being in prime breeding age.' Where is the data to back this up? Without hard data, this is all just heresay and conjecture. For all we know the first 1/10th of an animal's life could be the 'prime breeding age.' Heck just look at humans. We live a long time but we all know it's only for a short period of time that we can bear children. Not to compare humans to wild animals, but you get my point.

Second, evidence from other fish species does not exactly translate to stripers. Has anyone measured yolk quantity on striper eggs/fry themselves? While you can adapt data from different species, it is still an estimation/aproximation and not completely valid.

Basically what I am saying is that while this post is informative, it is not definitive. I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I just think there is still a lot of work to be done. What we need is a concrete study done on stripers, with cold hard facts. That should end the debate once and for all.

[macojoe]

Well since I hate eatting Big Bass, I will let them go, and take all the small ones!!

I once killed a small 24" fish and even that I knew it was not leagle to take it, I did rather then waste it.

It was the best Bass I have ever had to eat!!

So all the bigs go back!!

[GBOUTDOORS]

How is it we take the word of ONE marine bio that gives only one side of the answer and you say it is the only truth? Can it be its what you want to hear so it is right? Please give me his number so I may call him and see if he thinks any of the other marine bio from the state are all wrong or is it that this like all other topics may have many right answers. By the way Bob I see you are from the Plumb Island area stop by the Div. of Marine Fisheries station and say hi to my son he is the Marine Bio working there now. He has not had time to look around for fishing spots yet as he just moved up there last month but like his dad he loves the water fishing and stripers. By the way ask him to see his fish tattoo!!!!!!!!!

[slapshot]

What makes you say this guy is wrong? He says there is recent evidence out that supports his statement. I don't understand why some guys feel they need to justify taking a big bass because they believe she is no longer a prime spawner.

I have no problems with anybody taking a fish that is within the legal limits. But why argue the fisheries guys?

[mooncusser]

The idea that a 40-pounder has less viable eggs than a 15-pounder has been circulated for years. It's become like an urban myth with no scientific evidence to back it up, but it continues to be told. One point not mentioned in this thread is the shear number of eggs produced by 40-pounder, compared to a 15-pound bass. One study counted 200,000 eggs produced by a 15-pound bass, while the 40-pound bass produced 2 MILLION eggs.

Download this PDF document if you've got some time to read:

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/state_f...opulations.pdf

"...Population projections for the next decade indicate that striped bass stock abundance and biomass could be maintained near present levels (i.e., those in 2000 ) if fishing mortality rates do not exceed F=0.4. However, fishing mortality rates higher than 0.25 will result in a reduced proportion of older fish (age 10 and older) in the population and a decline in spawning stock biomass. As fishing mortality is increased, the age structure of the spawning stock is progressively shifted towards younger spawning fish. Research on striped bass and other species indicate that spawning of smaller and younger fish is significantly less successful than older, more mature individuals. At fishing mortality rates greater than F=0.25, there is a heightened risk of reduced recruitment in the stock due to greater reliance on younger spawners."

More in Here: http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/state_f...01biennial.pdf

www.fws.gov/northeast/fisherycenter/ bioactrep/01bioactrpt.pdf

coopunit.forestry.uga.edu/ FORS8390/Documents/example1.pdf

[mooncusser]

GBOUTDOORS, you are arguing a completely different point. If you need to see the scientific papers regarding fecundity and egg viability in order to believe the summaries and conclusions, you should read the PDFs that Labrax and I posted and then look at all the references they cited. Those references are all scientific papers. Start with Googling "Zastrow et al. 1989" and "Monteleone and Houde 1990" and read those papers if you want.

What you are hanging your hat on, and I suspect is at the root of the long-held misconception of older stripers losing fecundity, is the notion of Spawning Potential. Spawning potential is a made-up figure that some scientists like to use to try to get their population dynamic theories to work. In the real-world of fisheries management, it has no place. If you allow Spawning Potential to figure into your analysis, you would look at a 15-pound striper next to a 40-pounder and correctly conclude that the 15-pounder has greater spawning potential than the 40. That may be true, until a seal eats the 15-pounder you were looking at. I have the potential to become the world's richest man, but my potential is less than my 6 year old's simply because he has, in theory, longer to work at it. Doesn't mean that I won't win the lottery tomorrow or that he may decide to go to art school and make $16k for his entire career.

[GBOUTDOORS]

Moon you are right but the guy lets the 15# go and keeps the 40# to take on a road show to all the guys and eight dif. bait shops to weight in so it does not breed either. Guess we are doomed either way.

Ps Labrax pm sent let me know if you new him.

[labrax]

GBOUTDOORS,

Responded to the PM - thanks. While we may not agree, at least we are doing it civily. As I mentioned in my PM and previously - I think we are coming at this slightly differently which is leading to the difference in opinion over what is the more valuable fish. Our commong ground is that we are interested enough in the resource to add our info and opinions to see that it continues for our kids and grandkids.

[schoolie monster]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but aside from the viability of the eggs, a 40 or 50# fish is obviously a genetically superior fish to have grown to that size and survived a harsh environment.

In nature, that is how a species stays strong. Stronger males, whether it be deer, grizzlies, wolves, etc. do most of the mating. In fish, the big females are your primary breeders. We all know that.

Passing on that strong genetic makeup is key to any species.

IMO... the worst reason to kill a fish is to show it off. Act like you've been there before... a picture says a thousand words. But its just an opinion.