race point over sand permit

[STRIPERSHAWN]

can anybody fill me in on the race point beach , is the whole beach closed off right know? as i have the week of the 4th 7 day pass already ,did they close everything or is coast guard still open ,i paid for permit in advance, but if they close the whole beach down why would they keep your money for not being able too use the beach,sounds like a complete ripoff too me, this will be the last year i bye a permit and invest a week of vaction time , and all the money i spend down on the outer cape and bait shops and resterants and housing too bad great spot , im afraid im not the only one that feels this way shawn from ludlow mass

[Slingah]

sorry to say...but I think your chit outta luck
look around here...there is a thread on it

[Mike P]

Sorry to say it, but you're pharked. The Feds are offering you a nice consolation prize, free day parking at Herring Cove

While I understand your frustration, I would encourage people to buy permits in the future. Maybe re-think your weekly plans and buy a permit for weeks when you can be pretty sure the beach will be open. IMO the Feds don't give a rat's ass or not whether they sell a single permit, as whatever revenue they bring in is a drop in the bucket for the National Parks Service's operating budget. However, when permit sales shrink to a trickle, it gives them the excuse to take away ORV access in the Seashore for good. Remember, we lost the rest of the outer beach in the 80s, when bass fishing tanked and people started to pass on buying permits. "Why do we need to keep 30 miles of beach open when all the vehicles we sold permits to will fit in 6 miles?"

[Backbeach Jake]

After further thinking on this subject ( who snickered?), I believe that this is about as bad as it will get. The whole shebang is closed for , what, 28-30 days? The time that a Plover takes to hatch and fly. So every year from here on out you can count on the Race being closed from the middle of June to the middle of July. That's just how the birds work. It'll only stay open all season when the birds leave the endangered list. So, it's actually to our advantage not to rush the little wretch's recovery. A little pain=no pain later. I don't like it either but I have to face reality...
MIkeP is right No demand=No access

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

That's just how the birds work. It'll only stay open all season when the birds leave the endangered list.

The birds have to reach a certain # of pairs in 3 different wintering areas of the country. Then then have to sustain that # for 15 years before they will be removed. So chances are we may never see them removed in our lifetime.

The worst part is they are only listed as threatened not endangered. If changed to endangered it may bring on a whole new set of rules. I'll keep buying my permit even though it sux to be locked out. If we stop buying permits the bird people will win.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by MAC

The birds have to reach a certain # of pairs in 3 different wintering areas of the country. Then then have to sustain that # for 15 years before they will be removed. So chances are we may never see them removed in our lifetime.

The worst part is they are only listed as threatened not endangered. If changed to endangered it may bring on a whole new set of rules. I'll keep buying my permit even though it sux to be locked out. If we stop buying permits the bird people will win.

Bingo!

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by STRIPERSHAWN

can anybody fill me in on the race point beach , is the whole beach closed off right know? as i have the week of the 4th 7 day pass already ,did they close everything or is coast guard still open?

Shawn, coast guard landing in truro is still available to drive on at night, I don't think you can go all the way to long nook but it's drivable to a point.

I'll keep buying my permit also. I'm not giving in to those enviromental whakos. I mean I love nature too but let's get real

BBJ, good point about the extra stamp money, what do the non fishers give towards those lakes and streams?

[fishonnelsons]

.

Some facts - goal is 2000 pairs on the whole coast, split among 4 areas, each with their own goal. Now at 1632, New England at 630, over their goal of 625, but tough noogies, need to hit 2000 number for five years, and then ensure actions do not diminish that.

Need continual letters, e-mails, phone calls to Supt George Price, Cape Cod National Seashore, 99 Marconi Rd., Wellfleet, Ma, 02667, 508-349-3785, ext 203, george_price@nps.gov. Need to open up talks again to have more flexibility in opening up alternate routes while the plovers do there thing.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by fishonnelsons

.



Need continual letters, e-mails, phone calls to Supt George Price, Cape Cod National Seashore, 99 Marconi Rd., Wellfleet, Ma, 02667, 508-349-3785, ext 203, george_price@nps.gov. Need to open up talks again to have more flexibility in opening up alternate routes while the plovers do there thing.

Absolutely
the more emails, the better
we all have to stick together.

[Karl F]

Mr. Price's viewpoint, as published in this weeks CCTimes...


June 24, 2006

In defense of the piping plover
By GEORGE E. PRICE JR.
We are in the middle of the piping plover nesting season. To some, it is a time to celebrate an environmental success story; to others it's a cause for frustration and economic loss.

In 1986, the piping plover was listed as ''threatened'' by the federal government. That meant the bird would be protected while it nested on beaches, such as Cape Cod, and raised its young along the ''wrack'' line and among retreating waves.

But the environment the plover calls home puts these tiny birds directly in the path of people trying to enjoy the same beaches, especially those of us with off-road vehicles (ORV). And the need to protect the birds and their nests has ramifications not just for those on four wheels, but for hikers, dog walkers - even kite flyers.

As someone whose previous experience with Cape beaches and shorebirds has been as a ''happy end user'' - as a visitor and bird watcher - I am now experiencing a crash course in beach management, legal responsibilities, bird behavior, and the impact of it all on hundreds of visitors.

The conflict is simple: The land where people want to be is the same land these birds depend on for their survival. The piping plover's nests and eggs are almost impossible to see to the untrained eye. The chicks are described as ''cotton balls on tooth picks.'' When approached by a dog or kite, the adult identifies them as predators and behaves accordingly by leaving the nest to distract the predator, which means the eggs are not covered or the chicks are not fed. If this happens on a hot day in sunlight, the eggs can ''cook'' in minutes. If the chicks are feeding as a vehicle approaches, they ''hunker down'' to the lowest area on the beach. This area is often a footprint or tire track of a previous traveler. This is often where the tiny remains are found.

Very often, environmental news is bad: Disappearing rain forests, drained marshes, leveled forests and threatened open space. The evolving success of piping plover recovery is a real success story, one we can be proud of right here on the Cape. In 20 years, we have cultivated tremendous progress in their local recovery. And I mean we - all the towns on the Cape which have nesting shorebirds; all the off-road drivers who have respected the nesting areas; all the beachgoers who have been careful not to disrupt the bird families; the leadership from the state and U.S. Fish & Wildlife services and the dedicated individuals who spend a tremendous number of hours focusing on bird survival and human interaction.

The closures are temporary. Unless there is re-nesting due to late storms, the period of concern is about four weeks. ORV permit holders on the National Seashore drove the beaches from April 15 to June 11, when we needed to close the ORV corridor. We expect it will reopen by mid-July and will remain open through Nov. 15. We will honor the ORV permits as day passes at the three Seashore beaches in Truro and Provincetown during this closure.

I have had people ask why affected areas cannot be shared by people and the birds. People can still access all public National Seashore beaches where fencing and signs identify bird nesting areas. It's the vehicle access areas that are affected.

I could seek permission for a program that allows for a certain amount of ''take.'' I learned that ''take'' means dead birds. I don't believe the people who support the Cape Cod National Seashore want the National Park Service to allow for ''take'' when the species' survival remains threatened. By sharing the beach now, and putting up with this temporary ORV closure, we are all helping to ensure that plovers will be here for our children and grandchildren to enjoy.

George E. Price Jr. is the superintendent of the Cape Cod National Seashore.

(Published: June 24, 2006)


I think you can get a good sense of what side of the fence he is camped on.
Yes, email, write or call him, but remember the law comes from the top, it is up to him to enforce it, as he sees fit. Even with the parameters that allow him some flexibility, he will go on the extreme side for the birds, not the people. Keep Pestering your Senators, and Congressmen too.

[Karl F]

"And the need to protect the birds and their nests has ramifications not just for those on four wheels, but for hikers, dog walkers - even kite flyers."

That one sentence, should send chills thru all... look who is next in line after they get rid of vehicles.. hikers (walk ons) dog walkers, (they already banned dogs at Nauset), and kite flyers (kids, and other such problem types)... right out of the Audubon Agenda book.....

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Mr. Price's viewpoint, as published in this weeks CCTimes...


By sharing the beach now, and putting up with this temporary ORV closure, we are all helping to ensure that plovers will be here for our children and grandchildren to enjoy.

ROTFLMAO Our kids and grandkids will really enjoy straining their eyes to see a cotton ball on a toothpick

"Look, Skyler, see the plover chicks?"

"Where, Poppy?"

"Right there, see?"

"Poppy, all I see is sand"

"They're the same color as the sand Skyler. That's how they protect themselves from foxes--isn't that cool?"

"Poppy, this sucks. Can we get an ice cream and go see the aquarium? At least I can see the seals when they do tricks"

[Swimmer]

Can't let PETA win.

[DadBomba]

We just got home from a weekend in P'town. The rangers let you park free with your pass at Race Point, Herring Cove, and High Head (maybe Head of the Meadows.) Coast Guard is open after 6:00 PM. On Saturday afternoon they opened the south access and 0.1 miles of beach at Race Point. After some walking on Saturday morning, Rappin Mikey and I each got three at first light, all keepers up to 20 lbs. We were in a great blitz--just didn't have the legs to chase them more than 1.5 miles. At Nelson's they are complaining that the rain, gas costs, and beach access is killing the merchants.

Rick and Mikey are still there. Mikey's camera is broken, so we won't get the great pictures we saw last year.

[chris L]

yo dad bomba
we dont want to see last years great pictures just this years .

how are them boys doing ?

[Backbeach Jake]

Love him or hate him:
#2 06-18-2006, 07:22 AM
Frank Daignault
Writer, Hunter, Surfcaster Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 10,563

Re: Cape Cod - the end?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are two groups of people, two policy setting philosophies. One, ours, is to permit oversand vehicle use for recreation, in our case fishing. The other group, who I have always called the wine and cheese set, wants to restrict ORVs. This latter group smoozes and mixes socially with ranger high command seemingly plotting to take access away from us in subtle ways, spoon fed in small doses, in order to exact various use forms. The erosion of access is so small, so subtle, that in order to see or measure it, you have to step back and look at what was taken over a long period of time. I have been talking about this in print since my first book came out in 1988. The Park Service knows that it has to be careful not to upset the populace entirely, which is why they remove only the small change of access. As you point out, the bump in the road is kind of a good analogy. I think Ranger high command wants to make beach use as unattractive as possible to reduce use and thus reduce their management challenges. Never forget that these guys in Government service are clock watchers who just want to get their years in as comfortably as possible. As far as selling permits, this is the Federal Government and they have all the money in the world.

Taken from Stripersurf.com. The man knows his ham and eggers.

[Karl F]

Jake, there is an Awful lot more to it than that....
but I cannot type that much.

[jkswimmer]

I think Ranger high command wants to make beach use as unattractive as possible to reduce use and thus reduce their management challenges. Never forget that these guys in Government service are clock watchers who just want to get their years in as comfortably as possible. As far as selling permits, this is the Federal Government and they have all the money in the world.

I THINK THIS IS THEIR REASON FOR THE CLOSERS THEY ARE LAZY

[MAC]

Originally Posted by jkswimmer

I think Ranger high command wants to make beach use as unattractive as possible to reduce use and thus reduce their management challenges. Never forget that these guys in Government service are clock watchers who just want to get their years in as comfortably as possible. As far as selling permits, this is the Federal Government and they have all the money in the world.

I THINK THIS IS THEIR REASON FOR THE CLOSERS THEY ARE LAZY

I wouldn't say lazy. But with no ORV access they could run on shorter man power and all the other things that go with it; less paperwork, fewer vehicles, and basically less responsibility. It would make their life easier, IMHO, if we couldn't use the ORV routes at all.

[Karl F]

If you have time to read a LOT of info, that might put what transpires in the rule making process, and enforcement, go to the mbba website, read the message board posts from the past month or so. Look for ones posted by Peter, or Peter Murray read them, and the links he mentions. Others have posted important info too, and, like here , others have posted a lot of useless drivel... a mix, just like any other message board.

A lot more goes on behind the scenes, in beach management, at the federal, state, and local level, than one thinks.
Read the list of organizations that was involved in the last negotiated rule changes, amazing we are allowed to drive the beach at all, with a stacked deck like that.
However, the rangers make an easy target, for those who are frustrated. That, is a shame.