Thinkin out loud--

[justplugit]

here.

I always drilled my belly holes in the closed grain of the plug thinking it is the most dense and would naturally want to lay on the water with the dense grain down.

Then i started using Taggar's Hydro-orientation method and found out how wrong i was. Each plug floats a little different no matter what the grain.

Now i was thinkin today, being that the plugs, or at least mine, are never perfectly round with the drift off dead center, especially on the softer cedars, could this be a reason why each plug will float a little different?

When i mark my belly holes with a pencil spinning on the lathe, it will hit on the high sides and not the low. I would think if you drilled the belly holes on the high side that would be the heaviest side of the plug and lay down on that side.

Whata you think.

[Tagger]

I'm sticking with it till I find something better .. Had to change my methods to build this way .. making it harder on myself .. I think its worth it.. Been told no,no,no ,, still not convinced,, water method or some kind of fluid is totally frictionless ,,100%.. even lubricated rubber, you still get friction .right ?. Interresting the turning out of round theory .. noticed on some pieces the pencil hitting some places first leaving others blank ,,, I'll have to pay more attention to that .. good one . Still tight grain ,loose grain,, out of round ,, it all comes out in the Wash ,,,pun intended..

[justplugit]

Eddie, Hydro-orientation let me "see the light", opened my eyes, and is the Gold Standard, no doubt. Just lookin for an easier way without usin all those drillin jigs you Jigman and CS make.Next to tyin siwash, i hate drillin the most. :

You guys gotta keep me learnin.

[Karl F]

Tagger.. how about "Roll Orientation".. ? Ever try it to compare to Hydro?
Two old guys I have talked to, (one on here ) have told me of this method. One of them built commercial for years...
two parralell thin gage angle iron on level bench top.. roll the plug slowly along it, let it settle... make a line.. do it again to check...and, it doesn't raise the grain...
When I get organized, and building again, I'll give it a try.. have not built a plug in months ...

[capesams]

showed Mr.T something just like that when he was here, I could feel his eye's roll up into his head as he stood behind me as I was doin a demo for him....either I suck doin demo's or he's just stubborn like the rest of us older folk's.


ps....ifin I push to much to get a plug cut....she gets out of round...knife doesn't get a chance to cut even..dig's into the softer grain and jumps off the harder stuff on the same blank.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Tagger.. how about "Roll Orientation".. ? Ever try it to compare to Hydro?.

kinda what I mean by fluid being totally frictionless .. roll orientation better than nothing if you don't want to get the plug wet . agree hydro may not be to the liking of a commercial builder . By the way,, I didn't invent this,, just stubbled upon it,, got lots of attaboys , and on the right track ,,from heavies at other sight .. I don't care about time ,,or xtra steps . to me .. i'd rather have the wood work with me than against me .. anyone who tells me just look at the grain hasn't given this an honest try on a number of blanks .. I don't really care to defend it .. I like doing it . to each his own .

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Tagger

the turning out of round theory ..

If it pans out ,it could go down in history along with" Relativity" and "Hydro-orientation."

Like Karl F says, "oh how you like to punish yourselves".

[Karl F]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Like Karl F says, "oh how you like to punish yourselves".

Don't we all...

JPI.. wonder if the "Hold on, Danny" theory would have any application here ...

[crash]

The part of the wood that hits the pencil first will usually be on the side when placed in the water. Floating plugs before you drill seems to work well for me, unless I know I'll be adding a bunch of belly weight. I don't have the experience of some of you, but it seems to work well for me.

[Jigman]

Plugs float a little different cause the density is not even through a piece of wood, even sections of the same ballister are different. Hydro orienting puts the heavy side down so it does not work against the plug when retrieving. Make jigs and learn how to tie a siwash, life will be good again

Jigman

[Grapenuts]

I gave my plug a sponge bath does that count

[BigFish]

I believe its all moot once you add either belly weight and/or the swivel and belly/tail hooks.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by BigFish

I believe its all moot once you add either belly weight and/or the swivel and belly/tail hooks.

nope, not so true Larry

back when BM and I started making needles, we test floated them in salt water in a bucket to see how they sat and how they sunk and how fast or slow the sunk. Then we used the same water to float round blanks that were destined to be swimmers, because even doing the roll test on a flat surface like the tablesaw, they still were not quite right. Jigman is correct about the density of the grain being different in different parts of the wood, even from the same sticks. It is much more accurate to float the wood, there is nothing wrong with raised grain, once dry, it sands smooth. Hooks and belly weights are not enough to compensate for some discrepincies in the wood density on some plugs. It might seem like a picky thing to do, but it gets results. If I made bottle swimmers, I would definately float them before any cutting or drilling. If you ever made pikies with small knots in the wood, you'd see that it matters where they are.



"
When i mark my belly holes with a pencil spinning on the lathe, it will hit on the high sides and not the low. I would think if you drilled the belly holes on the high side that would be the heaviest side of the plug and lay down on that side."

Dave, not neccesarilly.
take some round stock, now sand a flat spot along one side all along it's length. flaot it and see how it sits