The Trouble with Needlefish - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

cow tamer · 01-31-2007, 07:13 PM

A plugs action is the key, yet a needlefish has little.
Big eyes on a plug are the key, yet most needlefish have none.
Vibration is important, yet a needlefish doesn't.
Color is important, yet needlefish colors vary.
Scent enhances a plug, but a needlefish doesn't smell.
Yet needlefish catch fish and big ones to boot.
Needlefish are a plug of adversity.

luds · 01-31-2007, 07:18 PM

whoah

it's ok. spring will be here before you know it. i thought i was obsessing.

ChiefLinesider · 01-31-2007, 07:51 PM

Needlefish are easy prey...?

Just some words to calm the mind.

tattoobob · 01-31-2007, 08:21 PM

I would take a step back,
Think for a minute,
Then go get a Box,
put all your needlefish in it
and mail them to me.

Slipknot · 01-31-2007, 08:39 PM

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...ad.php?t=15841

Karl F · 01-31-2007, 08:45 PM

Great Link Slip..
That might need an update.. that was before Salty gave us Tourqoise Fire.. that is a MUST have for any needle junkie.
Trust me.

Bob.. that is the best Ho attempt yet

needles.. what is it that Tagger says?.. a stick, that catches fish.. gotta love it.

NIB · 01-31-2007, 08:57 PM

Out in a boat one day watched a bass for around 5 mins. try to eat a clear plastic salad spoon.
I think it was the presentation..

cow tamer · 02-01-2007, 07:09 AM

A needlefish demonstrates that when you think you've got fish (fishing) figured out, think again. The salad spoon example says it all.

Karl F · 02-01-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIB

Out in a boat one day watched a bass for around 5 mins. try to eat a clear plastic salad spoon.
I think it was the presentation..

They like pickle slices better.. ask Flap

DZ · 02-01-2007, 08:37 AM

Cowtamer - try not to over analyze needlefish.

Here's a story for you: Quite a few years back a guy published a story in The Fisherman magazine (New England Edition) about his homemade needlefish made out of "ball point pen" bodies. Some of you old timers may remember. He would take the ink cartridge out, make a hole in the body for a hook hanger thru-wire it then put on hooks and he was done. He touted it as a light tackle needlefish. Well, other than the photos in the story I never saw anyone using a "ball point needlefish" but there was no doubt in my mind that they would probably fool a striper from time to time.
There are times when stripers are highly selective and others when you can catch them with a strip of tee-shirt (did that once). Don't give them too much credit ... but don't sell them short.

DZ

chris L · 02-01-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIB

Out in a boat one day watched a bass for around 5 mins. try to eat a clear plastic salad spoon.
I think it was the presentation..

it was the left over dressing on the spoon

Tagger · 02-01-2007, 04:53 PM

I've caught large on needles when there was no fish to be had ... The person who said "Easy Prey" nailed it ... something about food crawling past in front of your nose ... I very confident in needles ... Thing is trying to get someone to fish ,,basicly a stick ,, that slow .,
Pateince is a virtue ...

tattoobob · 02-01-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeCounts1099

The "problem" with Needlefish is that to some extent, they are a sharps' plug. Because there's no "no- brainer" action to it, as there is with say a Storm Shad or YoZuri minnow plug, the average caster generally finds it a non- productive choice. This is why it seems the majority of everyday-casters are in love w/ the Storms... & almost no sharps' throw them (Ultimate Jigheads & bodies anyone?)

Steve great write up, I have said for years that storm shads were Googan lures, this first paragraph says it all

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl F

Bob.. that is the best Ho attempt yet

Karl never hurts to try

I am a Needlefish junkie

GattaFish · 02-01-2007, 09:36 AM

There is no question when fish are hungry they will eat just about anything......

But when they are not hungry they are VERY picky and can only be enticed with vibration, presentation and color.

Bigcat · 02-01-2007, 11:12 AM

French fries are killer

Slipknot · 02-01-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigcat

French fries are killer

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

NIB, I wonder where ya saw that bare jig catching striper thing first

It was all about the distance, reach bottom and hold, and provide a hook. dressings were not necessary at that time.
your live bait was ignored because you didn't wash your hands after spagetti dinner the night before

LeCounts1099 · 02-01-2007, 11:25 AM

The "problem" with Needlefish is that to some extent, they are a sharps' plug. Because there's no "no- brainer" action to it, as there is with say a Storm Shad or YoZuri minnow plug, the average caster generally finds it a non- productive choice. This is why it seems the majority of everyday-casters are in love w/ the Storms... & almost no sharps' throw them (Ultimate Jigheads & bodies anyone?)

Because it "does nothing," it is paramount and imperative for the Caster to have the ability to "feel" the Needle through the water-- under ANY & all water/ conditions-- on the retrieve. To some extent "become one" with that plug through line/ rod/ reel! For a caster lacking this ability, the Needle will not work ("present") properly... & just as importantly any bumps & takes (more subtle than with most plugs on the whole) will not be felt or successfully set upon. Takes lots of exp. to develop this "feel"... under all conditions, & mostly at night! And: it's easier to get this touch in areas featuring "sameness" of water generally-- say like the great Back-beach, its' corners excepted. But in locales featuring very variable water/ conditions/ currents/ depths like Rhody, Block & Montauk to name a few, you must be quite a good student to know how to successfully "work" Needles through alll of this varied water...

One attraction to the Surf plug-casting devotee of this art, is certainly that there is a heavily intellectual element to this form of fishing: SO many decisions that have to be made correctly, depending upon location & conditions present on that particular outing. Not to mention the Winter bench prep. necessary to be ready for all of the different situations in- season. Fact is, there are very many (good) brands of Needles out there... and almost all have a semi- unique niche/ proper use. S.S., Habs, BM, Gibbs, Lex, Saltys & others/ customs are all must- haves!-- but really most need to be used in their "best"/ proper conditions... & size! (& color? Debate there rages!)... WHEN to throw the S.S. stubby?-- vs. the Habs 2 oz.?-- vs. the Habs "N- n- Gale"?... vs. the Gibbs large?... vs. the Lex 3.5 oz. "Montauk"?... vs. the 2 or 3 oz. BM?... etc.

DZ compiled the best concise summary of the different Needle brands, & their chief differences/ best uses, etc., that I've seen (searchable here?). But, really in the year 2007, this is now enough material for a full book! (And lucky anglers we are, to have this many quality choices! Just ask the '80s Block guys that had to meet the Jumbos head- on with non-through wired plugs featuring Mustad 3/0's... & bodies that were brittle in comparison to today's bullet- proof versions!) DZ?-- a possible "Modern Needles" companion piece to "Snowstorm Blitz?"

You'd better make sound "game- night" decisions about which Needle to throw, & why... & have them all handy, & ready/ featuring sticky- sharp & sound hooks!... IF Needles will be a stand- out & consistent plug (& produce Large) for you!

zimmy · 02-02-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeCounts1099

Because it "does nothing," it is paramount and imperative for the Caster to have the ability to "feel" the Needle through the water-- under ANY & all water/ conditions-- on the retrieve. To some extent "become one" with that plug through line/ rod/ reel! For a caster lacking this ability, the Needle will not work ("present") properly... & just as importantly any bumps & takes (more subtle than with most plugs on the whole) will not be felt or successfully set upon. Takes lots of exp. to develop this "feel"... under all conditions, & mostly at night! And: it's easier to get this touch in areas featuring "sameness" of water generally-- say like the great Back-beach, its' corners excepted. But in locales featuring very variable water/ conditions/ currents/ depths like Rhody, Block & Montauk to name a few, you must be quite a good student to know how to successfully "work" Needles through alll of this varied water...

I am a relative needle newbie and the above comes as a bit of a suprise to me. Heck some nights I can barely feel my hands nevermind the needle moving with the surf at 50 yards out. I assumed that there is, of course, a learning curve for knowing when to impart a little action, when to rip em, and when to make em slowly crawl. But this? Huh...

LeCounts1099 · 02-02-2007, 05:02 PM

Simply put, Zimmy: it's generally not necessary to impart "action" to your Needlefish (though of course there are always exceptions, including daylight applications for Needles). The trick is to use the right type/ weight/ bouyancy of Needle for your given conditions/ spot on a given outing... and to correctly cast at the right (upcurrent) angle, crank speed given the wind/ current/ depth, & potential bottom "stickiness" at that place & time, for a proper "gliding" retrieve/ presentation. Sounds difficult-- it is! But a good selection of Needles... & practice/ trial & error... should have your Needle "gliding" at the right angle & depth & speed in no time (The big ones will let you know when you get the hang of it!). Believe me too that when retrieved properly, most good Needles do indeed have a "shimmy," if not an "action." Suffice to say, when done right, they look like easy pickings to mamma Bass!

Bob: Dennis had some pretty nice stuff hanging around the Porkchop condo... and I don't think any were missing? So you evidently can keep the mania in check!

There was one particular fishing mag. of mine w/ the bikini babe on the cover conspicuously missing, however...

Dennis: A one- row bag is fine is you're mostly Eeling... but I couldn't live without a two- row bag myself when not. And... despite that I rotate 6 inserts situationally with my Surfcaster bag to be best prepared... nevertheless it is often that I'm a mile from my vehicle when I realize I left behind the "ideal" plug for this session!

Btw... the Surfcaster bag has the 7- slot insert (4 small, 3 big), that holds a LOT of Needles! I can get 2 medium-to-large Needles in each of the smaller slots... then use the big slots for the A 40's, Giant Pikies, big Darters, etc. Two inserts= 8 small slots= 12- 16 Needles easily carried, not counting other plugs. Only problem is when you go 4/0 on the larger sizes... but you can fit two of these per large slot. And those 9+ inch "Wad" Needles, easily point (hookless) nose-first out of the top/ sides of the bag/ flap, for easy carrying (no "laying them across the top")...

DZ · 02-02-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimmy

I am a relative needle newbie and the above comes as a bit of a suprise to me. Heck some nights I can barely feel my hands nevermind the needle moving with the surf at 50 yards out. I assumed that there is, of course, a learning curve for knowing when to impart a little action, when to rip em, and when to make em slowly crawl. But this? Huh...

Zimmy,
Lecounts is well on his way through "grad school" when it comes to how to fish a needlefish. I can tell by his words he has figured it out. Spending a week at Needlefish University this past November may have given him some new insights on the plug. When you cast them for many years, countless hours, into all conditions you begin to get "that feel." Kind of like Chevy Chase in Caddyshack telling the kid to "Be the Ball." "Be the Plug"!

DZ

The Dad Fisherman · 02-02-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ

Kind of like Chevy Chase in Caddyshack telling the kid to "Be the Ball." "Be the Plug"!
DZ

Nananananana Nanananana

"Where'd my Cast Go?"

"Into the Lumber Yard"

fcap60 · 02-01-2007, 03:58 PM

Dennis:

You are a true gentlemen.

I do remember the article, but I didn't write it....although I have thought about using pen cartriges for years.

I'm glad someone else put it in print.

Casting Z's · 02-02-2007, 07:11 PM

I'm a believer and heavy user.!!!!
Last season I got the, " approval from big bertha many times" and still find it hard to believe, that these lengthy wooden dowels catch the eyes of those big cow stripers.
To each her own..

baldwin · 02-02-2007, 07:35 PM

The only trouble with needlefish is that they aren't cheap enough for me to buy as many as I'd like to buy.

Terence · 02-02-2007, 07:57 PM

They are beautiful in their simplicity and Habs and Saltys caught big for me last year.I have one Habs that has some serious mojo on it. Magic color scheme. Its funny, I ordered them from a shop in NY and the guy said "all we have left is this color that sucks and no one is catching on"
I'll take em I said and they out fished every color in my bag!