Is Something Wrong?

[BigFish]

I see it everywhere, people talking about how truely awful the fishing has been and it seems to get worse every year! I was talking with BasicPatrick earlier today and we were discussing how, over the last few seasons, the bait just seems to be staying offshore.....along with the bass! Not just at this time, when the so called "summer doldrums" are in full swing, but all season long! More and more surf fishermen are turning in their waders for boats because the fishing from the surf has been dismal and boats are the only way to get to the fish because, for some reason, they are not coming into the shore as in years past!! The backside of the Cape has been absolutely horrible the past 3 seasons and maybe we can attribute a good deal of that to the proliferation of the giant black rats...the seals! What about bait???? Is anyone seeing any? The fall run of the last 2 seasons has been the worst.....the last worst than the one before it! Is it a pattern? Is something wrong with the eco-system? Any thoughts or comments??? I for one believe something is wrong and I don't know what?!

[nightfighter]

Boat fishing up this way hasn't been exactly stellar..... got skunked last night, eels and herring, 5 hours, not a hit. Talked with four other boats, total of two small fish between the lot of us. And this has been fishing lots of historically fishy spots. Might have to travel out even further. Looking at charts again tonight. Hell a 24# fish won the Maddies Tourney a few weeks ago, and I know he went pretty far east of Gloucester..... I suck.

[pops]

seals

[Slipknot]

Lots of factors in play here Larry
here's a list from my uninformed uneducated opinion

1 global warming
2 daylight is longest this time of year and there is less dark night hours (not that that explains the crappy fall runs but....)
3 the pattern fish have been leaning to is follow the bait offshore where the seals ain't, been moving that way for sometime now
4 sandeels have changed there positions away from the sandy shores of the outer beaches more and more each year, don't know why but it affects their predator the bass since the bait just is not in close so we don't catch as many
5 Jersey has most of the large down there and they kill lots of fish and lots of large just like we have up here, IMO the whole population of stripers can't maintain at the take rate that is happening. We need to slow it down before it's too late, go back to 1 fish per person coastwide, then if we need to go up to 34" to start with.
6 the bluefish are scaring all the bass away
7 boats are an easy vehicle to get you to where the bass are, so of course they will catch more fish.

shore fishing has been dropping off for years now, maybe it's just a cycle, the canal sucks too, 4 years ago july was good, atleast the beginning of july, so I don't know

[ridler72]

I can only talk about what I know and that is Boston Harbor. Every year, at least for me it's the same. A good push of big fish comes by Boston Harbor around June and does the drive by. This year there was biggies. Poagies have been in moderate, most that I have seen since the 80's and shore fishing was horrible back then but the boaters rejoiced. July for me has always been slow. The Poagies have kept it interesting but not a sure bet for big fish. August-September is prime time up here for big fish. I hope that trend continues. I can't speak for everyone on Boston Harbor but it's been the same thing every year, at least for me.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by ridler72

I can only talk about what I know and that is Boston Harbor. Every year, at least for me it's the same. A good push of big fish comes by Boston Harbor around June and does the drive by. This year there was biggies. Poagies have been in moderate, most that I have seen since the 80's and shore fishing was horrible back then but the boaters rejoiced. July for me has always been slow. The Poagies have kept it interesting but not a sure bet for big fish. August-September is prime time up here for big fish. I hope that trend continues. I can't speak for everyone on Boston Harbor but it's been the same thing every year, at least for me.

I fish the Boston Harbor from the shore. June was terrible, but I haven't been out much in July, only a handful of times. However, I did real good those outings. In one case several fish 28' thru 36' landed on fishfinders rigged w/ squid and halved green crabs during a false dawn in less than a hour (I know you that's Junior Varsity for you boat guys) at Castle Island (I dont care about spot burning, my presentation is IMPECCABLE and far above REPROACH, I'm like the Batman of the Castle Island Swims. While you shore castle island guys get sunburned, sitting on your buckets, lamenting on how terrible "luck" you have, fishing the hottest hours of the day lobbing chunks to skates, I'm in the Batcave). Remarkable improvement in water quality year after year, and Although June has traditionally been the month where fishing slowly picks up momentum, my fellow collective of angler friends have informed me that the shore fishing jumpstarted after that first early July heatwave, even in the inner harbor. It also helps that there aren't too many seals along the urban waterfront. Lots of schoolies poached though,....

[Tagger]

co-worker is a strickly off shore fisher.This past Memorial day he said they were 25 miles out when they noticed a disturbance on top of the water . On further investigation they saw they were small polluck being pushed up ,,by what they didn't know . They live lined one and hooked up a forty pound bass they released . He said they are out there..There's no bait close to shore. why would they be there ?.. They just follow thier nose . We really have to restore the bait situation ..Herring..Pogeys ,,Macks ,,Smelt "Restore it they will come " Smelt hasn't fully recovered from the industrial revolution ..lot of smelt runs never came back . You can't catch any Macks off the pier early spring last 8 yrs...When the levels are up ,,you don't need a boat ... catch 50 off the pier .

[Slingah]

my guess would be the bait...or lack of it....

[rizzo]

Large bodies of fish are staying in NJ and NY. Taking longer to get up to RI. When a population drops the fish don't spread out as much. Modern electronics and poachers are doing a number. North Carolina has no sense of conservation, large scale commercial outfits have bigtime kills, pounding away at fish all winter. You pound the same schools year after year you will deplete them. Theres only so much out there, it is not an endless resourse.

[redcrbbr]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Lots of factors in play here Larry
here's a list from my uninformed uneducated opinion

1 global warming
2 daylight is longest this time of year and there is less dark night hours (not that that explains the crappy fall runs but....)
3 the pattern fish have been leaning to is follow the bait offshore where the seals ain't, been moving that way for sometime now
4 sandeels have changed there positions away from the sandy shores of the outer beaches more and more each year, don't know why but it affects their predator the bass since the bait just is not in close so we don't catch as many
5 Jersey has most of the large down there and they kill lots of fish and lots of large just like we have up here, IMO the whole population of stripers can't maintain at the take rate that is happening. We need to slow it down before it's too late, go back to 1 fish per person coastwide, then if we need to go up to 34" to start with.
6 the bluefish are scaring all the bass away
7 boats are an easy vehicle to get you to where the bass are, so of course they will catch more fish.

shore fishing has been dropping off for years now, maybe it's just a cycle, the canal sucks too, 4 years ago july was good, atleast the beginning of july, so I don't know

LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT THE ENDANGERED CORMMORANTS

[keeperreaper]

This year is the same as every year. Bass follow the bait. PERIOD!! Where the bait goes or stays is anyone's guess but I have caught a few large bass this year and a ridiculous amount of tuna. Find the bait find the fish!

[NIB]

The amount of fish I have seen the last few weeks it is amazing to me there might be fish anywhere's else..

I have noticed in the past few yrs that these southern bass seem to be morphing into a different strain.Their heads are more bullet shaped,more tuna like.A Off shore angler coming in from sharking came up on a huge pod of bunker 15 miles off.Is it possible with the increase of the bunker population these bass are becoming more of a off shore fisherey than many think.We get a shot at em when the planets line up other than that it's a desert.The bunker vacuum effect.
Another thing that concerns me is I don't see many 12-17 lb fish.This spring was poor.U really had to work for em.Plenty of ur smaller fish it's almost like a yr class is missing.
Karl if there are off shore bass like u mentioned I would think they would have had a shot at em thru the ditch...Was that short run in late May it??
Even though we have some amazing fishing days this yr. It was not as good as last yr.Tough to beat last yr.But this is the first year in these runs it was not better than the one prior.Many prognasticators where claiming spring run a bust as they where late this yr.Everthing was late this yr. I still had a monster day 5-23..The numbers are starting to wind down now.I still think we have a few good shots at em down here yet.If u want a shot at em make friends with someone in Conn. cause they are comin.
Krispy u out there....

[Vogt]

Last fall in Connecticut, the bunker was absolutely everywhere. The result was an explosive fall run for large fish. There were sooo many slammer blues around my spots and some really really nice bass. We would have action all day and all night just by moving from spot to spot.

[NIB]

Originally Posted by Vogt

Last fall in Connecticut, the bunker was absolutely everywhere. The result was an explosive fall run for large fish. There were sooo many slammer blues around my spots and some really really nice bass. We would have action all day and all night just by moving from spot to spot.

Hey Buddy....

[luds]

Fishing has been pretty good North of the Cape as far as I can tell. It was just a little strange for me this year because July has been great after a dismal June. I also thought the fishing in May was pretty good.

[fishpoopoo]

too much gook poop in the water

[Back Beach]

Surf fishing is, was, and will always be cyclical with regard to its productivity. I believe there are plenty of fish in the ocean right now. The boat catches prove it.There are lots of small fish. From shore its always a crap shoot as to where the schools of large fish will stage on a given year. Many great seasons on the cape are being succeeded by what seems to be a prolonged dry spell. When the cape was hot, a lot of the spots that are productive now were dry. If you put in enough years at this game, you will see ups and downs. A lot of you guys here started fishing in recent years and really don't know what slow is. The fishing now is so far from "bad" it's ridiculous. Most guys can't appreciate it, especially if you started fishng after 1990 when the stocks began to boom. The fish may not be in your favorite spot every time out hitting your favorite lure with abandon, but that isn't an indicator of the fishing quality. Move.

[Pete_G]

Any other long term fisherman who have seen far more ups and downs then me want to add some thoughts?

This is a good topic and it could use some additional insight from those who have gone through lean times from shore in the past.

Are there any other factors that are currently in place, especially relating to baitfish that parallel slower stretches in years prior? I tend to agree there's a lot of fish out there, but clearly surf fisherman in many areas aren't or can't cast to them.

[Flaptail]

Easy.

1.Bounty on seals
2.Immediate end to menhaden fishery by both commercial and bait for sport shops suppliers
3. End commercial fishing for bass except for real, year round commercial fishermen. (ie: no plumbers allowed)
4. 36 inches for everyone at one per day
5. Keep the river herring protected for ten years not three
6. Ban mid water trawling for herring
7. enforce stricter rules for groundwater discharge in coastal embayments, marshes and adjoining wetlands.
8. Open the backbeaches on CC from Eastham to Long Point to orv access.
9.Allow orv night fishing access only to South Beach in Chatham.
10. Buy a boat and learn how to access closed or unaccesible by land areas by the same to fish from shore.
11. Realize that striper fishing has more secrets than 7 volumes of Harry Potter adventures and that there are hundreds of ways to catch bass when they are "not" there. Experimentation is the key.
12. Positive attitude in the face of sure failure.

Some of the above will never come to pass, like #'s 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9. But hey you can dream can't you?

[JohnR]

I think the overall amount of bass is probably in fair to OK shape and not the reasons we are doing "poorly".

Let's look at what we know:

• Bass fishing has been fantastic where there are bunker; 'Gansett Bay, large areas of Jersey, LI, parts of LI Sound/CT, and Boston Harbor had a nice run.
• Some people are having great years, some people are having miserable years but this is usually the case. The fish move around a lot.
• Because we stay (or are supposed to) in the close waters near shore, lots of offshore migrations of bass are go way underreported. In the fall, think about the Great South Channel Bass Slaughter that gets more reported every year.
• Weak inshore bait populations - with the exception of the bunker - not bringin fish back as often.
  
  Here is some guessing:
  
• I've heard some interesting opinions from people that have seen some good tagging survey data. What happens if your NJ fish and your Cape Cod summer fish are from the Chesapeake and since they are spending so much quality time on bunker in NJ that a sizeable percentage never gets to the Cape? If you look over the past few years at the progressively improved NJ fishing, does it coincide with the falling Cape Cod fishing????
• Are the RI inshore fish Hudson fish and less influenced by the NJ bunker?

This is very cyclical and varies from year to year, the past few years the Cape has had it pretty hard but the Jersey guys have been doing very well. Is there a connection? What about the other failing forage stocks in New England? Like the herring??

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

Any other long term fisherman who have seen far more ups and downs then me want to add some thoughts?

Surf fishing is like a pedulum. When it swings in your favor you rationalize why. When it swings out of your favor its the same way. I've been at it since 1982 and have seen real bad,good, great, and ridiculous. In that time frame I can readily admit that the slow nights in the surf outnumber the good 5 to 1, perhaps more. Anyone who has a lot of years at it and claims differently is full of crap IMO. In the last five years I would say the fishing(surf) has been good to great when compared to the long term average.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

Any other long term fisherman who have seen far more ups and downs then me want to add some thoughts?

This is a good topic and it could use some additional insight from those who have gone through lean times from shore in the past.

Are there any other factors that are currently in place, especially relating to baitfish that parallel slower stretches in years prior? I tend to agree there's a lot of fish out there, but clearly surf fisherman in many areas aren't or can't cast to them.

Yeah Pete. Mike is right. Even at it's worse it doesn't compare to how bad it was in the mid to late 80s. I remember in 85 when I caught 3 schoolies at Deep Hole one morning and I told the guy who ran the old bait shop on Monahans in Narragansett. He told me I was lying. he hadn't seen any Bass for 3 weeks and this was in June.
When the moratorium was on and we went from 34" to 36". We would fish RI 5 out of 7 nights a week and get maybe 1 fish that was a "keeper". There were no peanut bunker and sand eels and silver sides were the bait to be found. We'd pray for the Mullet run around Sept 15th around Weakapaug because you had a shot at a decent fish...maybe one in a week worth of nights. And I'm talking fishing from 10 or 11 till dawn.
So around 87 or 88 we started to run back up to the Cape. We would run the Back all night and maybe find fish at the Mission Bell or laurias for an hour. If we found fish we'd drive home in the morning. Sleep maybe 3 hours, do stuff with the kids and head back up at 6 or 7. I put in tons of 600 mile weekends when the fish were on the upswing in the early 90s.

During this period of time RI surf sucked big time. Everyone would drive from Narrow River to the Sheep's pen to Poind Jude, Deep Hole, Green Hill, Charlestown, Quonnie, Weakapaug, and watch Hill in one night looking, looking and maybe you got a couple of schoolies.

I am firmly convinced that the huge amount of Bunker up in Narr Bay is having an effect on the fishing everywhere. I have never seen so many big fish concentrated in the Bay. I saw fish from the mid teens to the low 20s all morning yesterday in 74 degree water. You NEVER could find fish in water that warm before but there is so much adult Menhaden in the bay the bass are staying on them. The reason? They are easy pickings. I worked a school that was about 2 or 3 acres yesterday. There were probably several thousand bunker in that school all on top with bass and blues under them. High protein diet for the fish without expending a lot of energy.

Just my humble opinion.

Paul

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by BigFish

I see it everywhere, people talking about how truely awful the fishing has been and it seems to get worse every year! I was talking with BasicPatrick earlier today and we were discussing how, over the last few seasons, the bait just seems to be staying offshore.....along with the bass! Not just at this time, when the so called "summer doldrums" are in full swing, but all season long! More and more surf fishermen are turning in their waders for boats because the fishing from the surf has been dismal and boats are the only way to get to the fish because, for some reason, they are not coming into the shore as in years past!! The backside of the Cape has been absolutely horrible the past 3 seasons and maybe we can attribute a good deal of that to the proliferation of the giant black rats...the seals! What about bait???? Is anyone seeing any? The fall run of the last 2 seasons has been the worst.....the last worst than the one before it! Is it a pattern? Is something wrong with the eco-system? Any thoughts or comments??? I for one believe something is wrong and I don't know what?!

does the lower catch rate coincide with when you started fishing your own plugs?

Im just kidding... in my case I am sure that where i fish the menhaden surge in the bay is killing my spots-

[BigFish]

JohnR.....I was thinking the same thing about the fishing south and the coincidental drop of the fishing here...along with the bunker scenarios!

NEBE......caught more fish last year than ever before.....just no size! The plugs work fantastic.....I am amazed that they really work about as good as any plugs I have ever fished if not better! They cast better, swim better, and they produce.....when there is fish about! I would highly recommend to anyone that if they do not yet have a BigFish Bait Co. custom made fishing lure in their bag, run right out and get one!

Sorry.......did I go off topic?!

[ProfessorM]

Basicly sounds like fishing to me.

[BigFish]

Yeah....Rhode Island does not seem to be experiencing the same drop off because you have alot of bait obviously! Why, however, is Mass. suffering so badly? That is the question....or is it just the down section of the cycle????

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Yeah....Rhode Island does not seem to be experiencing the same drop off because you have alot of bait obviously! Why, however, is Mass. suffering so badly? That is the question....or is it just the down section of the cycle????

BF,

Mass has been this way before. When the pendulum swings back for the cape guys, it will be good again. Can't say what factors are going to be involved or when it will happen, but the fish will come back, probably when people least expect it....

[JFigliuolo]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Yeah....Rhode Island does not seem to be experiencing the same drop off because you have alot of bait obviously! Why, however, is Mass. suffering so badly? That is the question....or is it just the down section of the cycle????

RI has quite a problem from shore...

[ThrowingTimber]

I disagree with ri having a problem from shore. Just gotta be where the bait is, now if I could just crack the 30lb mark we'll be fine, sooooo many fish 15lbs to 25-26 lbs from shore its dumb this year.. Its easier to pick through the twinkies in a boat...

[Clogston29]

Bait concentrates fish. I think that that is really the issue here. Those that have access (boat, skill, info, etc) to the bait are having a great year. Those that don't are just working for stray fish here and there that have broken off from the herd, so to speak. Lots of bunker in jersey and the bay = lots of fish in jersey and the bay = less fish other places. Lots of sandeels off shore on the cape = lots of fish off shore on the cape = less fish on shore on the cape (seals definately play a factor here - they're probably why the sandeels stay off shore now, or at least a factor).

I also think the fact that we've screwed up the ocean so much is a major factor here. Everything has been so overfished and thrown out of wack. The diversity of baitfish is way down. Its gotten to the point that when one species is protected (pogies), they flurish relative to other species (mackeral, scup, squid, whatever) and concentrate the bass on them. The number of seals on the cape is, partly, a result on overfishing of herring and cod in the gulf of maine where the seals should be - once again we've screwed up and there are consequences.

Up on the N. Shore of MA, with the exception of June's pogies in salem harbor and september's peanuts all over the place, I never really feel like there are a lot of inshore baitfish. As a result the fish are typically concentrated around the rocks eating crabs, lobster, pollack, sea robins, etc - more solitary prey. This makes them more attainable to surfcasters. If we had tons of herring within a mile or so of shore, those fish probably wouldn't bother coming in shallow and "scrounging" the rocks. I feel like that is why june usually isn't that great (at least at most of the spots I fish), july august and october are the best shots for larger fish, and september is big numbers but low quality usually.