Who would fish without eels?

[Sea Dangles]

My partner and I are in a quandry tonight. We don't have enough eels and the tide doesn't start until after midnight so we can't get eels without an early trip to the canal. We bagged the trip because we know that without eels we stand a snowballs chance in hell of catching a trophy bass. Is there anyone who thinks they stand a legitimate chance for a trophy with jigs or plugs? I'm not saying that they don't cach fish, I'm not saying they aren't fun to fish either. At this point we have monthly winner tunnel vision and our focus is large.

[BigFish]

I know I can reach fish with my plugs that the eel guys can't reach!

[Slipknot]

If that happens again, call me before Tom's closes and maybe I'll run down to get some for you guys, then I can leave them outside my shop for you, it's on your way.

I would have to agree the better chance at large would be with the eels, although my last 40 came on an eelskin jig
I love jigging
plugging, especially the canal is a crapshoot for large.

[angler229]

In the canal for big fish bring eels or stay home, unless there is big bait in there jigs and plugs can be just as effective, but thats a total crapshoot.

[ThrowingTimber]

bring your eel guy a six pack every once in awhile. my guy open the shop for me if need be. Needlefish I have total confidence in them.

[afterhours]

plugs are my weapons of choice, i like doing things my way. i know that i'm handicapping myself by not using bait but i enjoy plugging so much and catching on my wood that i would'nt wanty to do it any other way, 'cept for one of my flyrods .

[JLH]

I'd fish... you stand a better chance of going large fishing plugs or jigs than sitting home on the couch

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by BigFish

I know I can reach fish with my plugs that the eel guys can't reach!

He's talking about cows not schoolies !

[East Tide]

that fish in the picture was caught on a jig (39.7 lbs)

the rest of my canal 30's were all on eels.

I would definitely still go fish without them and only fish with them about 10% of the time.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Is there anyone who thinks they stand a legitimate chance for a trophy with jigs or plugs?

Let's see, Cinto got a 73 on a Plug, Stetzko a 73 on a teaser, McReynolds a 78 on a Rebel, and some guy in NC a 70 on a Mann's stretch. I think Iron Mike got a 60 on a needle, likewise Tony C a 60, likewise Tim Coleman a 60. Is your question limited only to the canal? Must be.

[Tagger]

I thought eel guys had big tanks with mutible airators buried in thier yards so never to run out of eels .. How about chunks ? You could chum and chunk .

[Flaptail]

Now remember, even in the canal the biggest bass ever taken there was taken on a plug, a Stan Gibbs 4oz Castalure Blue wave popper and it weighed 65lbs.

No question an eel will up your chances for bigger bass though, not quite as challenging though, but your success rate ratio will certainly be higher.

When Stifftip and I and a few others were commercially selling bass in the 70's and 80's we always drifted live eels in the canal in the mid summer to late fall on new moon and overcast night tides. One of my biggest canal bass, a 45 pounder came on an eel on September 17th, 1985.

It's the right time for it thats for sure. Use sled dogs (large fat eels) and conventional tackle for best success and go 40 lb mono and tie direct no snap or swivel just straight to the hook.

[rickhern]

Chris, PM me. I have a couple of dozen I think, in my tank, big ones too. Take 'em and replace 'em.

Rick

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Let's see, Cinto got a 73 on a Plug, Stetzko a 73 on a teaser, McReynolds a 78 on a Rebel, and some guy in NC a 70 on a Mann's stretch. I think Iron Mike got a 60 on a needle, likewise Tony C a 60, likewise Tim Coleman a 60. Is your question limited only to the canal? Must be.

Numby, I only know three anglers on your list personally. If the others mentioned got their large using the same methods as two of the guys who have told me their first hand accounts, the forests shall remain safe for the time being. If I had set the World Record three nights ago,I was thinking yozuri. Many times when the bass are on eels, the blues won't even eat wood.Believe half of what you hear regarding the alleged catches on plugs.This is not a canal only discussion.

[basswipe]

I'll take a Hab's needle over a slimy any day.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by basswipe

I'll take a Hab's needle over a slimy any day.

Maybe for personal preference, but not if you want to consistently catch fish

I love throwing plugs.
I enjoy it.
I like the challenge.
I'm also lazy and like catching fish, so I throw eels 90% of the time.

Would I still go?

Of course.
I went last night with 4 dead eels and a riggie.
90% of the confidence I have with live eels...

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

.This is not a canal only discussion.

Then it becomes a discussion about how much confidence you have in your skill as a fisherman. If you are sure you can't catch large fish with wood, plastic, or lead then you probably can't. Better to ask why not, than to pretend it can't be done.

[Nebe]

There are also those who can not play guitar or play pool with out drinking alcohol..

fishing live eels is a filthy sinful addiction.

[Clogston29]

if your talking about a specific set of conditions inwhich you've fished many times and only eels have done the job (which I'm assuming is the case since you have a particular spot and tide planned out), it probably is best to just stay home - especially on a work night. i've always found that heading out without confidence is usually just a waste of gas. the focus isn't there, you just think about what you should be doing, rather than what you are doing, and its just a waste. save your energy and gas money for a trip you'll be confident in. i don't have any canal experience, but the moon wouldn't have helped my plugging confidence last night either.

i really enjoy fishing plugs, but there are times and places where only an eel or riggie will do - especially if focused on a trophy. and your definately right on about the whole eel/plug story.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

i guess it depends on what you call a trophy bass.one of the areas i fish a 20lber is a trophy fish these days and very few are caught on eels mostly tins and pencils.another area on LI a 50lber is a trophy bass and again most are caught on darters,bucktails and tins. it is all about location that dictates what works best.

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by Nebe

There are also those who can not play guitar or play pool with out drinking alcohol..

fishing live eels is a filthy sinful addiction.

Hey, I resent that personal attack

Not guilty, your Honor, I not only deny the allegations, but I dislike the alligator

Just remember, Nebe, it's not always what you do, it's who you let see you do it

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Numby, I only know three anglers on your list personally. If the others mentioned got their large using the same methods as two of the guys who have told me their first hand accounts, the forests shall remain safe for the time being. .

OK, I'll call. Cinto's fish seems well established to have been on a plug. The one from NC was witnessed. Tony C I know. McReynold's...who knows...but probably not you. Coleman's has been published so many times by a guy who spent a lot of time teaching others what he knows that I doubt he is lying, so that leaves Iron Mike (and by association, Habs) and Stezko as the liars. Can't understand why Stetzko would make up a story that includes an eel (maybe he was fishing clams instead?). So one is left to conclude you are implying Iron Mike/Habs and either Tim Coleman/Stetzko are lying to hide some secret technique they used....as if fishing bait for large fish is worth lying about. Perhaps someone else is bluffing here to support a weak argument?

[bart]

Originally Posted by numbskull

So one is left to conclude you are implying Iron Mike/Habs and either Tim Coleman/Stetzko are lying to hide some secret technique they used....as if fishing bait for large fish is worth lying about. Perhaps someone else is bluffing here to support a weak argument?

i think a lot of people believe Iron Mike's fish was really caught on an eel, but said it was caught on a Hab's to help his buddy out. I don't know if that's true or not, i just know that a lot of people think this. another thing that happens all the time, that I think SD was referring to, is that people catch a big fish on an eel then stick a custom plug in its mouth, take a pic, in hopes of getting freebies out of it......

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by bart

i think a lot of people believe Iron Mike's fish was really caught on an eel, but said it was caught on a Hab's to help his buddy out. I don't know if that's true or not, i just know that a lot of people think this. another thing that happens all the time, that I think SD was referring to, is that people catch a big fish on an eel then stick a custom plug in its mouth, take a pic, in hopes of getting freebies out of it......

Soooooooooooooo.....we are to assume that Hab's didn't know and unwittingly propagated the lie to his own benefit? Interesting. And why would guys who have no faith in plugs be carrying custom plugs in the first place and want freebies that they don't use? To sell on ebay perhaps? This whole discussion is certainly enlightening.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by bart

i think a lot of people believe Iron Mike's fish was really caught on an eel, but said it was caught on a Hab's to help his buddy out. I don't know if that's true or not, i just know that a lot of people think this. another thing that happens all the time, that I think SD was referring to, is that people catch a big fish on an eel then stick a custom plug in its mouth, take a pic, in hopes of getting freebies out of it......

When guys like Cinto, Tim Coleman and Stetzko got their big fish, the freebie possibilities weren't there. Coleman was the editor of The Fisherman--he probably had freebies stacked on his desk like cordwood. The last thing he probably needed was more free plugs

In Cinto's case--if the fish was caught on an eel, and he told the truth, it would have been accepted as a world record. Why would he lie about catching it on a plug, when saying that it was caught on a lure with multiple trebles (not accepted by IGFA as legit at the time) disqualified it?

Nowadays? Sure. Guys do it. And some guys, who write, have been known to trash certain plugs in print precisely because the builder wouldn't grease them. The internet's made it even worse. The old saying, "believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear" has never held more water than on internet fishing sites.

Bottom line: over the course of the season, over the vast majority of fishing terrain in the Northeast, you will hang more big fish on eels than on any piece of wood, plastic or lead. It's not even open to debate. If I was still fishing for the buck, you bet yer arse I'd be slinging snakes, especially in the last hour and a half of the west tide, and the first couple of the east, in the Canal

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by numbskull

OK, I'll call. Cinto's fish seems well established to have been on a plug. The one from NC was witnessed. Tony C I know. McReynold's...who knows...but probably not you. Coleman's has been published so many times by a guy who spent a lot of time teaching others what he knows that I doubt he is lying, so that leaves Iron Mike (and by association, Habs) and Stezko as the liars. Can't understand why Stetzko would make up a story that includes an eel (maybe he was fishing clams instead?). So one is left to conclude you are implying Iron Mike/Habs and either Tim Coleman/Stetzko are lying to hide some secret technique they used....as if fishing bait for large fish is worth lying about. Perhaps someone else is bluffing here to support a weak argument?

I'm flattered to see so much thought was put into your hypothesis George. However, your thought process and deductive reasoning is flawed in this instance. I would also prefer to call this a discussion rather than dragging it down to the inevitable argument. Some people you may not know as well as you think you do. I really see no need for investigative reporting to root out the perpetrators. Bluff? No, I'm not playing poker here.
I realize you're a plugger and proud of it. The method obviously brings you a lot of pleasure between the building and the fishing and in the end, the catching.Please try not to take it personally. I've seen and admired your work and would love to own one.And no, not to sell on ebay. I'm not saying I don't plug at all. I'm just saying my method for targetting trophies is live bait.No need to try and read between the lines here. By the way, I too have caught my fair share of 30# class fish on jigs and wood.I also know of plug only charter captains that slay with wood. If the method had produced the results I have gotten with live bait we would not be having this discussion.Try to keep your faith in mankind without making assumptions based on your imagination.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

..... your thought process and deductive reasoning is flawed in this instance....... Some people you may not know as well as you think you do. I really see no need for investigative reporting to root out the perpetrators. Bluff? No, I'm not playing poker here......

OK, I'll buy that very interesting bit of information.....though it certainly reflects poorly on someone no longer around to defend his reputation.

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I realize you're a plugger and proud of it............Please try not to take it personally. Try to keep your faith in mankind without making assumptions based on your imagination.

I must say my "faith in mankind" has been dented a bit by the above. Regardless, although I am proud of catching fish on plugs I build, I can't think of a fish I have caught in years that I'd be proud of based on size alone. Which is EXACTLY why I choose to fish plugs. I could fish eels, scup, bunker, shad, and even fluke every bit as well as anyone you know (I have the boat skills and knowledge and equipment to do so), and undoubtably I'd catch more large fish, but I reject the proposition that the size or number of fish one catches is the best measure of accomplishment. I think the obstacles overcome in making a catch are far more meaningful.

What gets my dander up is the suggestion that big fish do not fall to plugs. They obviously do, even if the level of difficulty at accomplishing it is beyond what you are interested in investing in fishing to get out of the sport what you want. To discourage others from trying is more self serving than helpful.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Let's see, Cinto got a 73 on a Plug, Stetzko a 73 on a teaser, McReynolds a 78 on a Rebel, and some guy in NC a 70 on a Mann's stretch. I think Iron Mike got a 60 on a needle, likewise Tony C a 60, likewise Tim Coleman a 60. Is your question limited only to the canal? Must be.

Stetzko had a live eel on--that 73 passed it up and hit the teaser that was a foot or two up the leader

K-man, Ditch Devil, fishdog and J Powers have hundreds of 30+ on jigs from the Canal.

I have a few myself.

I think you have a better shot at landing one with an eel. Better chance of the hook burying itself in a solid area of the fish (usually the roof of the mouth), you're hitting the fish closer to the surface, and not as far out, so the current effects are less. I've seen guys taken to their knees by fish with jigs.

Away from the Canal--yup, I'd stick with eels over the course of a season.

[ray]

best bet plan on pluging and jiggin.

[bart]

bunker heads