This look depressing to me.

[Mr. Sandman]

I don't care what the MA fishery and other managers and so called experts say. This the status of the fishing in the NE and in particular this graph is not looking good for the future. If 09 is below average again, I think something serious (in terms of real actions) should be done.

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/dnrnews/p...8/101608a.html

[tattoobob]

I agree

[BatesBCheatin]

Worst juvi index year since 1990. Combine that with the massive breeder kills the last couple years... We have a few more decent years until an 80's repeat.

[redlite]

As someone that grew up thru the years of no striped bass and commercial fishes, from the backside for years, then years from a boat, and then the past 2 from shore again, I try to pay more attention to all these studies that are done as I really do care about the future of the fish stocks. I will say that from my experience, there are more than plenty of striped bass still around, but in my opinion, the in shore stocks have taken an absolute beating due to the 3 mile limit. It seems that the fish that are "programmed" to be in certain areas just weren't there this year. Again and again the stories of guys trolling squid bars off shore for tuna and slammin big bass are becomin more frequent. This past year has been very strange. The fish that usually set up off Nomans\ Squibby\ Gay head\ Backside just weren't there. Why??? Who knows the true science or explanation of this. Bait changes, water quality\ temps. SEALS???? Who really knows, but somethin changed them this year and I for one who makes a substanial amount of $ from sellin bass, make them a game fish. There are other fish in the sea that are taken worse beatins from draggers than bass. The comm fishin industry in mass is so f'd up that money and politics will never change it. As far as the spawnin issue, the bass I weighed in last weekend (42.5 inches; 39,75#) when they opened it up it was jam packed with butterfish and two big egg sacks. Another million fish that were never laid. Female that never laid, why ??????? That is all I have to say about that.

[Raider Ronnie]

In my opinion, the dogfish are part of the problem !

[afterhours]

the writings on the wall....gamefish status now.

[UserRemoved1]

You can definitely see the cycle up and down for sure looking at that graph. If it holds the same way next year will be lower....yes it is depressing.

My son Thomas is looking for an Eagle scout project. Something diff than making bat houses or collecting cans or whatever. I suggested he start a letter writing campaign to State Reps and Senators to address the bycatch issue and other things hurting the stocks. Don't know what he'll decide on but he wants to do something fish related.

[BassDawg]

while i agree that we should be scaled down to

1 @ 36", have a tagging/stamp system for any fish over 50#'s, and MoSaxxy should be a gamefish~~~ the aforementioned article was not ALARMING to me at all.

isn't the Chesapeake the smallest of the three breeding estuaries?
what are the 2008 YOY numbers for OBX and The Hudson?

also, the article doesn't say:
there's too many meat tournies going on, the boat guys are killing
the species, and the STOCK ###'s are dangerously LOW.

on the contrary, the fine scientists of MD stated that the ASBass stocks are healthy, that this was an off year due to weather/environment related effects, that dips in reproduction levels are part of the norm/mean, and that their same survey discovered "bumper crop" YOY numbers in '03 and '01!!!

noteworthy, to be sure! yet, the comm's will always win,,,,,,,,,,
WE have no lobbyists; therefore, NO VOICE and even less leverage. the chances of us seeing gamefish status for our beloved prey~ in this LIFEtime ~are on par witha snowball's chance in Ecuador!!!

[RIROCKHOUND]

among the guys I fish with down here, we have been saying something wrong for a couple of years;
we're seeing less and less schoolies in spots that should have large resident populations; at times there was a ton of bait, but no bass on them...

1 Fish 36"
Chesapeake is the largest BD, I think you have it backwards in order.
Crack down on poaching/black market sale, and reduce recreational mortality, we still have a much bigger impact than commercial harvest.

whether it is a crash waiting to happen, or a change in the population distribution, something isn't right....

[BassDawg]

thanks Bryan,
i stand corrected,,,,,,,,,,,,

but am still not convinced that a crash is emminent.

more like a population fluctuation; perhaps, next year the YOY
index will increase marginally, or spike upwards, or continue its downward spiral.
it all seems to be part of the species cycle~~ which is always subject to how we, nature, and weather muckx IT up!!

only time will tell, and it seems that this was an odd year for
S-B changing thier spots a bit. remember how gray/rainy this summer was,
lots of barometric pressh, and foggy, and funky cloud and tidal patterns early on and well into Sept,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

i must say though~~

this was my biggest year of three. not too many years, i know, but
i caught bigger fish, lost more monstahs than last year, and the residents and travelers were right on time this year in the 3-5 places i've been able to document over such a short period. the honey hole was on schedule down to the tide and time from the previous 2 years.

that's from 14" to 43",
from The Hahbah to Cape Ann,
from Stripers to Boos to adult pogies to p-nutz to macks to herrings

a more subtle difference from the previous two years is less of a BITE.
this year there were NO 0:45 to 1:30 long fish till yer arms ache ~bites when and where they were "supposed to be". i prolly just missed them, since work cut down my fishing windows by at least 1/3.

i am sure that many catz got into sum of those sick blasts!!!
you know, a fish with every cast,,,,,,,,,,,or 4 with every six casts.
HUNGRY and hounding the beefiest eeeeeeels of the bunch!!!

[CaptMike]

I think the bass are definitely on the decline. I have never been one to protest the comm guys but it looks to me that something needs to be done to get to gamefish status. The two most important states to address this are MA and MD, these two states account for most of the comm catch not to mention that MD is where most of the breeding takes place. I spent a week fishing on the Chesepeake with a couple "watermen" down there a few years ago. I was there in early May and it was horrifying to see the ways they killed fish. Hook and line, pound nets, seines: it was unbelieveable how many big breeding fish they could take and how easy it was for them to do it. If I could change one thing to help stripers it would be to make the MD comm guys only use hook and line if I couldn't make them a gamefish. Not to mention the 18" limit down there that makes so many fish keepers. Even though the big fish are better breeders keeping one 36" fish is still better than 8 18" fish on one boat. Also the pollution in the Chesapeake needs to be addressed but I think the comm fishing there is a bigger issue. It really looks like we haven't learned from our mistakes in the 80's and if we don't do something soon we are doomed to repeat it. Let's make the limit bigger and work towards gamefish status. Not trying to rant here just offering my opinion.

[Mike P]

Before we throw stones at commercials and push gamefish status, maybe we should check out our own glass house.

I saw too many guys keep two big fish this year for 3-4 days running, at the Canal alone. Just because they never had a run of fish like that, and because the law said they could. No one can use the meat from all those fish.

Same thing happens in NJ every spring when they have the pogies penned to the beach. Guys parade big breeders to every tackle shop under the sun, to have their pictures put up on the "Wall of Fame". Then they take the fish home, and it's "wtf am I gonna do with all this meat???" Should have thought it out beforehand.

[BassDawg]

well put, Mike,,,,,,,,,,

and i agree, but if we change it to 1 @ 36",
stamps/tags for over 40's/50's, combined with
gamefish status for 3-5 yrs,,,,,,,,,,,,,then run the
same YOY survey in the same estuary and see wtf??

agreed about killing the breeders for the sake of "FAME".

their choice, but i wholeheartedly question the wisdom~~

or the lack thereof.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Before we throw stones at commercials and push gamefish status, maybe we should check out our own glass house.

I saw too many guys keep two big fish this year for 3-4 days running, at the Canal alone. Just because they never had a run of fish like that, and because the law said they could. No one can use the meat from all those fish.

Same thing happens in NJ every spring when they have the pogies penned to the beach. Guys parade big breeders to every tackle shop under the sun, to have their pictures put up on the "Wall of Fame". Then they take the fish home, and it's "wtf am I gonna do with all this meat???" Should have thought it out beforehand.

Your forgetting the part about the back door at the chinese resteraunt..

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Before we throw stones at commercials and push gamefish status, maybe we should check out our own glass house.

Absolutely agree. Everytime this comes up; post the rec landins, post the comm landings, and the impacts are clear, PLUS 8% and higher mortality from every jamoke in the spring and fall throwing treble hooked plugs to 15" fish. "Yeah! I caught and released 50 fish today"! 'Well, 5 of them probably died"


One thought, I grew up during the moratorium;
When someone who fished hard before during and after (like my former and sometimes current surf parter) think something else is up....

How many people who were fishing hard in the 70's think that now has a similar feel to then???

[Saltheart]

Just looks like a normal variation to me. Some banner years and some low years appears to be normal.

As I understand it , the chemistry of the water during some critical two week period when the eggs first come out is very critical to the success of a given YOY. If some quirk or pollution makes the PH or othe chemistry detail high during a critical time during the spawning , the numbers crash but if the timing is such that the water is good during the spawn , the numbers boom . It all evens out over a long period. What you need to be careful of is year after year low numbers. A decade of all low numbers and the fishery is crashing.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

What you need to be careful of is year after year low numbers. A decade of all low numbers and the fishery is crashing.

Well said.

[BatesBCheatin]

What jumps out at me from looking at the graph is that the peak years post 1996 are in steady decline. Although not indicative of a certain 'crash', it certainly is not a good sign of things to come should this trend continue.

Best to be proactive - 1 fish for all recs would be a good starting point.

Edit: Not getting into all the commercial factors, just read Sandman's post.

Great post Sandman.

[Nebe]

Well said Mr Sandman.

[SAUERKRAUT]

Very well said Mr. Sandman. And you can take your OTW meat fish bass tournament and your MV Derby out also. How about another "Mystery Prize" awarded on some regular schedule in your Derby (is it daily??)-- go kill another fish and register it, in the hope that the fishing and the fisherman that night didn't do much. Wow, your name might be drqwn out of a hat and you can win a plug.

[CaptMike]

we have a lot of opinions here and that's great but what I think is important is that there is an underlying feeling that some measure needs to be taken. The push for change will definitely come from large groups like us. We just need to figure out who the hell to talk to.