So it looks like "Dissent is patriotic is already out the window!
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So it looks like "Dissent is patriotic is already out the window!
so the evil repunlicans are questioning the LARGEST spending bill in history and Moveon.org is running adds to target them? Its wrong for people to questions this? Realize there is no proof or even academic support for the provisions of this bill, its just a try it and see effort.
Libs are nuts.
House Republicans have proposed an alternative that leaders say would create 6.2 million jobs for only $478 billion.
"What Member can't go back his or her District and explain: Rather than voting for a bloated bill, ... I voted for an alternative that would create twice the jobs at half the cost, and faster?" a House Republican leadership aide said. "That's why we didn't lose a single Republican and picked up 11 Democrats."
Pushing back against the unanimous House Republican vote against President Obama’s stimulus plan, the White House plans to release state-by-state job figures “so we can put a number on what folks voted for an against,” an administration aide said.
“It’s clear the Republicans who voted against the stimulus represent constituents who will be stunned to learn their member of Congress voted against [saving or] creating 4 million jobs,” the aide said.
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said the lawmakers will have to answer to their constituents.
“I do believe that there will be people in districts all over the country that will wonder why, when there’s a good bill to get the economy moving again, why we still seem to be playing political gotcha," Gibbs said.
And later today, MoveOn, Americans United for Change, AFSCME and SEIU will be announcing a new ad campaign targeting moderate Republican senators who might support the stimulus — Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine, Judd Gregg of New Hampshire, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Charles Grassley of Iowa.
The ad, which will run in the Washington market and in those states, consists of clips of the president talking about the stimulus, followed by the male voiceover, “Tell Congress to support the Obama plan for jobs, not the failed policies of the past.”
Letters on the screen say: “Tell Congress to support the Obama Plan.” The president met privately with House Republicans at the Capitol, Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel had a private White House dinner for House GOP moderates, and the President had members of both parties and both chambers over for cocktails last night.
But they did not peel off a single Republican.
The tally took reporters by surprise: Aides had said the party’s votes for the package might be in the single digits. So “zero” was a feat for House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio, who said on “Meet the Press” that he would oppose the package, and the next day asked members to follow him; House Minority Whip Eric Cantor of Virginia, who nailed down the votes; and House Republican Conference Chairman Mike Pence of Indiana. Pence sensed his members falling under Obama’s spell during their meeting Monday and brought them back by telling the President: “Know that we’re praying for you. … But know that there has been no negotiation [with us] on this bill – we had absolutely no say.”
Although a tactical triumph, the vote poses a risk to Republicans in the long run, with Democrats able to portray them as the party of "no" at a time when voters are hurting. Some House Republicans are likely to try to dilute the political risk by voting for the final version of the stimulus package after it passes the Senate.
When you hear how this "stimulus" money is being dispensed, you have to wonder: How do these items/projects promote job growth or stimulate anything other than some "special-interest groups" wallets?
Over $300 million for "sexually transmitted diseases? (I won't even start on this one)
4 billion to ACORN? Talk about your "special interest groups"!
Exactly how does giving money to help build a new sports facility in Florida help the nations economy? Exactly how many NEW jobs will that create?
Giving money to build a duck pond in California is surely going to turn that state's economy around, RIGHT!
This stimulus package, as presented is like any other apporpriations bill in Washington..... full of Sh*t!!!!
It looks more and more like a "this is in appreciation for helping me get elected" gift to plenty of people that definitely don't deserve anything other than a one-way ride out of town.
This is like the obligatory office gift you HAVE to contribute to, for a coworker that you can't stand.
We (those who actually work for a living) are getting the royal screw job once again.
2) Tax the $hit out of the people who are productive to fund it.
3) When it fails "It would have worked but we didn't have enough money."
4) Repeat as many times as necessary to buy re-election votes from special interests.
That's it in a nutshell! Only this time we are throwing the country's future away. This makes the money spent on the war on terror look like peanuts. Remember the deficit......our childrens future... this money will be pissed away and we will have nothing to show for it. How come the Dow has dropped every day since "He" became President?
Funny how RIJIMMY is sent off the deep end by Moveon.org...yea, the pulse of the Democratic party
I'm sure there's plenty in this bill that I wouldn't agree with, but anyone who thinks spending to stimulate is an oxymoron doesn't have their head screwed on straight.
That's not to say that rampant or unecessary spending is wise, but most finance experts I've read seem to go along with the idea of government spending as a way to get the market moving again.
I like the fact that the GOP stood together, it must not have been easy to do. Quite likely that this bill won't make it through in the current form.
That's it in a nutshell! Only this time we are throwing the country's future away. This makes the money spent on the war on terror look like peanuts. Remember the deficit......our childrens future... this money will be pissed away and we will have nothing to show for it. How come the Dow has dropped every day since "He" became President?
The current price tag, just on Iraq is a little shy of 600Bil, so really, stimulating the economy and pissing away money and lives in Iraq is in the same ballpark
Bryan
Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
That's it in a nutshell! Only this time we are throwing the country's future away. This makes the money spent on the war on terror look like peanuts. Remember the deficit......our childrens future... this money will be pissed away and we will have nothing to show for it. How come the Dow has dropped every day since "He" became President?
Actually, the Dow is up. Jan 20 closed at 7,949.09. And is over 8,000. With all due respect, do you do any research before making comments?
Also with regards to the country's deficit, Bush was handed a $128 billion Surplus and 8 years of Bush plus 6 years of a Republican congress turned it into an almost $400 billion deficit.
I remember the deficit, because we're still dealing with it and will be dealing with for years to come. The deficit is money that Bush and Co. pissed away.
As of October 2008, $864 billion had been spent on the War on Terror. The Iraq war has a projected, long-term cost of almost $3 trillion when long term care of veterans and other obligations are considered.
How exactly does the stimulus plan make these numbers look like peanuts??
Unless someone votes for/against a bill b/c they are trying to make the sponsor or other party fail (and I'm sure we have read how the repub. want Obama to fail), I sometimes disagree with going after a member b/c of his vote.
What I was not suprised to see was confirmation how the repubs. vote in lock step.
"Left, right, you got your marching orders, left, right, we don't want any disention, left right, don't fall out of step, left right, we told you how to vote, left, right, if you don't like it, no pages for you, left, right,..."
I know I'll get the wacko label again, but anyone notice the headlines the last two days have been all doom and gloom at the individual levels? Guy murdering his family becasue they lost their jobs, increased suicide calls. CNN now has the headline @ the "Devils Cave" for homeless people. Its like these guys sole purpose it to further the democrat agenda.
Obama is "disappointed" but "knows it's going to take longer than a few days to change the way Washington works," spokesman Robert Gibbs said in a round of US television network interviews. "His hand will continue to be extended."
Ahh " Its the way Washinton works" thats stalling the process! Oh, hell is that whats stopping us from spending 820 BBBBBBBBBBBillion! That right, its those evil republicans!
Wouldnt it have been great if the Dems had balls, errr, I mean political foresight to NOT vote for the evil Bush war in Iraq? Can you imagine what MIGHT have happened if they listened to Barry and rallied around his opposition?
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Smoking cessation programs make up $75 million of the economic stimulus bill making its way through the Senate, according to Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, who sponsored the funding.
Sen. Tom Harkin's office says smoking causes $110 billion in health costs each year.
Harkin said the programs were an attempt to bolster the economy by lowering the soaring health-care costs smoking causes each year.
The money will be used to bolster existing anti-smoking campaigns run by the Department of Health and Human Services and to buy new equipment at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which tests the contents of cigarettes.
What about all the southern states that produce tobacco? What about the medical professionals that recieve the money for care, what about undertakers? Wont this HURT them? We need new machines to tell us that cigarettes are bad??????? How is this economic stimulus????
Just saw this, been busy and preoccupied lately...
Jim, this is NO different than Rush's Sheep.
Move-on does not speak for all libs. Like Eben I have questions, but still think a stimulus is needed....
Bryan
Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
Just saw this, been busy and preoccupied lately...
Jim, this is NO different than Rush's Sheep.
Move-on does not speak for all libs. Like Eben I have questions, but still think a stimulus is needed....
The libs are nuts comment is directed towards suddenly it "bad" to question the admistration in charge. As much as you guys slammed bush on Iraq, this Bill by Obama is using all the same political tactics and fear mongering that you fault Bush with.
I'm glad Spence acknowledges the the Repubs stood against it. Its not a "sheep" movement, its showing unity against something they have issues with. As I stated earlier, imagine if the Dems had the balls to do that with the Iraq war?
As I stated earlier, imagine if the Dems had the balls to do that with the Iraq war?
Fortunately, some did.
Unfortunately, it was far too few!
Bryan
Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
Fortunately, some did.
Unfortunately, it was far too few!
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Secretary of State............ Cheney must have had his hand up her rear like a puppet. Yup, the evil Bush admin.....
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Secretary of State............ Cheney must have had his hand up her rear like a puppet. Yup, the evil Bush admin.....
Pretty much. Clinton was basing her position on the new "intel" that was tainted. The Senate might have failed their job of oversight, but that doesn't mean they weren't the victims of good marketing like the rest of us.
Also, Clinton was consistent in her remarks on the issue that something had to be done, but that unilateral action was not feasable option.
This part seems to get cut from all the quotes and videos. I wonder why?
The fortunately is that IF she had, then she would have won
the unfortunately component is obvious...
and TDF, your comeback to buckman...
Bryan
Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
the bottom line is that this bailout is bad news and filled with unnececsary charity. If the libs beleive group think and faulty intelligence got us into Iraq, why is the bailout any different. My friend Michael Moore will tell you how much Halliburton benefitted from the war, tell me, how much will Obama's buddy Warren Buffet gain from this bailout. THE MEDIA SHOULD BE ASKING THESE QUESTIONS NOT SOME MORON (me) ON A FIHSING WEBSITE !!!!
[QUOTE=RIJIMMY;660014]If the libs beleive group think and faulty intelligence got us into Iraq, why is the bailout any different[QUOTE]
I think your right. In the case of the Iraq war there were the known unknown's and the unknown unkown's as the loquacious Rummy articulated. I think this stimulus bill could also have unintended consequences as well, bad and good, and sure enough there is plenty of swine in between the lines. But swine is swine, and both Republicans and democrats play the merchant depending on whose managing the butcher shop. Is the pork what this is really over. PORK....its what's for dinner!
However, I do think greater care and preparation is going to those elements of bill that are intended to jumpstart things economically. I think this administration is going to execute with a surgical precision that was absent in Bush's administration when confronting challenges. Add to that, the way the Iraq war has been funded is unlike any war that has been funded in the past. Bush would ask congress for the money and they just forked it over albeit with concessions; swine anyone? Ordinarily, wars have been budgeted for, as opposed to the Executive back and forth with Congress saying " i need a XX billion?"....9 months later "i need another XX billion" and so on. That is what has lead to waste of millions maybe a few billion in war funding.
The point i'm trying to make here is that blanket statements affirming/predicting the uselessness of social planning is what is useless. That may seem naive but for what I've been told its more important to focus on motives behind what is trying to be achieved and then critically approach the choices and alternatives. Partisanship does none of this any good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY
unnececsary charity
Charity is one of the supreme virtues. I am an atheist, but I did believe the pastors word when he said charity is the avenue that the mercy of god passes down to us mortals. So maybe this should be refraised as "unnecessary subsidies".
Charity is one of the supreme virtues. I am an atheist, but I did believe the pastors word when he said charity is the avenue that the mercy of god passes down to us mortals. So maybe this should be refraised as "unnecessary subsidies".
Good, then introduce a bill with the proposals for charity. BUT this charity crap is getting bundled in with a stimulus package being marketed with the fear of the current economy.
I find it hard to swallow that you believe this Administraion will execute this so smoothly when the facts of how inflated this bill are presented before you. If they cant even focus now, how do you think the will later.
Last edited by The Dad Fisherman; 01-30-2009 at 02:47 PM..
I find it hard to swallow that you believe this Administraion will execute this so smoothly when the facts of how inflated this bill are presented before you. If they cant even focus now, how do you think the will later.
I get what your saying. This bill has lots of pork.
But you've got to keep in mind that this is congress were talking here and its dependent multi million dollar lobbying industry that goes on with it. Its not exactly a Republican or Democrat, Right or wrong type of thing, both parties push pork and the recipients are scattered throughout the political spectrum. Its Lobbying. The number of registered lobbyist in DC doubled to well over 30,000 from 2000 to2007. Lobbyist registered damn near 2 billion in fees last year. Its washington's legislative culture. Its a big game of give and take.
I think we all understand Obama is a politician, but I do believe that he has a better handle and understanding of the scope of his job than the previous administration. He has far more intellectual muscle behind him. Thats what I mean when I say his approach will be measured. After all, if this goes to S...., it will be his fault.
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If the libs beleive group think and faulty intelligence got us into Iraq, why is the bailout any different.
Apples and oranges. Sure there are hypothetical parallels, but at the end of the day the money, unecessary or necessary, is going to be spent on domestic projects with (promised) transparency to the people.
Also the size of the investment has been stated up front. The Bush Admin claimed Iraq would cost under 200M and be over in a flash...then SCOPE CREEP set in
Hybrid Mode
