Fed's to make your car payments

[buckman]

So now that GM is going to make your payments if you lose your job after buying a new car, it's nice to see tax payers will be funding car payments.

[spence]

Amazing...




...that you spend so much time thinking about some of this. If the goal is to restructure GM and keep a domestic auto industy going, little matters like this, and this is a little matter, can't distract you from the strategic objective.

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

Amazing...




...that you spend so much time thinking about some of this. If the goal is to restructure GM and keep a domestic auto industy going, little matters like this, and this is a little matter, can't distract you from the strategic objective.

-spence

Spence, do you really believe that GM needs to be kept going? I wonder if it might be better to let them fail. They got themselves in this mess and if they can't get out of it, let them fail. Obama, Inc. isn't going to step in and save the little local businesses that are suffering because of the economy.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Spence, do you really believe that GM needs to be kept going? I wonder if it might be better to let them fail. They got themselves in this mess and if they can't get out of it, let them fail. Obama, Inc. isn't going to step in and save the little local businesses that are suffering because of the economy.

Agreed. Let. Them. Fail.

This isn't truly a democratic society. It is a Capitalistic society. The country was founded with capitalistic goals in mind - to hunt, harvest and scavenge products to trade with Europe. As competition came in, they were forced to adjust. Early colonists didn't supply to current fads. Information traveled to slowly to make an approach like that possible. They provided quality products that people wanted to buy.

GM, on the other hand, did the exact opposite. They created crappy vehicles that sometimes played into current fads, as opposed to anticipating the consumer's needs and supplying quality products that created their own demand.

Let. Them. Fail.

[striperman36]

if they fail, not just enter Chapter 11, cease operations all together, I think there would be a tremendous impact across the global economy.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by striperman36

if they fail, not just enter Chapter 11, cease operations all together, I think there would be a tremendous impact across the global economy.

If they are forced to make electric crap and stop making the American pick up truck (their #1 money maker since the 30s) they will fail.

Of course Obama will do his part and subsidize them and give tax credits to people to buy the "crap".
And if that doesn't work, we will run the fuel prices up, by restricting oil production further, making it too expensive to drive regular cars.
(last week congress passed a bill adding 200,000 acres to the off limits area for oil exploration and use)

Not sure what to do, invest in FORD or buy a crap ton of double A batteries for my future golf cart.....

One sure bet, buy property in Dubai...

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by striperman36

if they fail, not just enter Chapter 11, cease operations all together, I think there would be a tremendous impact across the global economy.

How? We don't export a massive number of GM vehicles and have to import most of the materials needed to build the vehicle. GM and Chrysler play no major roll in the global economy. They aren't a company like General Electric that employs 330,000 people worldwide with key roles in multiple industries from aerospace to lightbulbs.

I think there would be a tremendous impact on the local economies, in that whole towns have been developed where 90% of the town is employed at the factory.

However, I'm willing to sacrifice the financial security of the few for the benefits of the country as a whole. I would rather see the money that is being sent to GM go to the employees for re-education so they can develop a new set of skills. The company is on track to fail resulting in those people losing their jobs anyway, and we're only delaying the inevitable.

[spence]

Originally Posted by striperman36

if they fail, not just enter Chapter 11, cease operations all together, I think there would be a tremendous impact across the global economy.

That is a big factor for sure, additionally think of the billions in taxpayer aid already given that would be lost.

The former leadership believed bankruptcy was off the table, and they're now gone or going. It would seem that a prudent path is to help the company into Chapter 11 so the massive debt and liability issues can be restructured. Without bankruptcy they don't have enough leverage with the unions.

There seems to be a lot of selective conservatism going on around here. Let them fail might sound like a free market solution, but we don't really have a free market now do we?

-spence

[Raider Ronnie]

Ernie Bartack says
"Come on down to the automile"
"Rt 1 Norwood, COME ON DOWN

[Cool Beans]

So FORD (never took bailout money) comes up with an idea:

"DEARBORN, Mich., March 31, 2009 – Ford Motor Company is introducing the most comprehensive program available to boost consumers’ buying confidence and begin rebuilding the American economy with the new Ford Advantage Plan.
The plan gives customers another reason to “Drive One” with payment protection of up to 12 months on any new Ford, Lincoln or Mercury vehicle, 0 percent financing on select vehicles and added local charity support."

GM takes a watered down version of it 9 months of payment protection, and everyone talks about GM.

I am just glad that FORD stayed away from the government money, and I for one will make my next new car a FORD to support American business not Government Motors (GM). As for Chrysler they will probably disappear.

[RIJIMMY]

Spence, I really am amazed at your lack of any critical thnking unless it is directed at peoples posts. Are you able to look at all into the future? I heard yesterday that Obama and Cos plan is to eliminate some of GMs most profitable vehicles, what are they? BIG TRUCKS!! So now they'll force GM to make more cars people dont want, and how will they ensure that they are profitable? THEY WILL RAISE THE GAS TAX TO MAKE PEOPLE BUY SMALLER CARS!!!
Do you ever stop and think what this all means? Stop and read the constitution!

[Cool Beans]

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Obama administration is seeking to ease General Motors Corp into a "controlled" bankruptcy by persuading some creditors to agree to a plan that would divide the company into two pieces, the New York Times reported on Wednesday.
Citing people briefed on the matter, the Times said the plan is to push GM into a structured bankruptcy "somewhere between a prepackaged bankruptcy and court chaos," using taxpayer financing for leverage.
The administration is drawing in part from its experience with troubled banks, seeking to create a new, healthier GM, but leaving behind its liabilities and less valuable assets, possibly for liquidation, the Times said on its website.
Under the plan, GM would file for prearranged bankruptcy, the report said, and would then use a sale authorized under Section 363 of the U.S. bankruptcy code to sell off desirable assets to a new company financed by the government.
These more valuable assets might include Cadillac and Chevrolet, as well as assets the company needs to run its business, the Times said.
Plans are still under discussion and details are subject to change, the report said.
GM officials warned on Tuesday there was a rising chance it could file for bankruptcy by June."

Maybe time to buy stock in FORD.......

[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Spence, I really am amazed at your lack of any critical thnking unless it is directed at peoples posts. Are you able to look at all into the future? I heard yesterday that Obama and Cos plan is to eliminate some of GMs most profitable vehicles, what are they? BIG TRUCKS!! So now they'll force GM to make more cars people dont want, and how will they ensure that they are profitable? THEY WILL RAISE THE GAS TAX TO MAKE PEOPLE BUY SMALLER CARS!!!
Do you ever stop and think what this all means? Stop and read the constitution!

Well said!!!

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I heard yesterday that Obama and Cos plan is to eliminate some of GMs most profitable vehicles, what are they? BIG TRUCKS!! So now they'll force GM to make more cars people dont want, and how will they ensure that they are profitable?

Funny, neither GM nor Ford can move a truck right now to save their lives...

Guess they're not so profitable anymore.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by likwid

Funny, neither GM nor Ford can move a truck right now to save their lives...

Guess they're not so profitable anymore.

And you "facts" come from?

I found this on Routers and on CNN. To me it looks like the #1 and #2 spots are still TRUCKS. Yes sales accross the board have fallen almost 50%, but even so they still outselling the Camry.

March 3 (Reuters) - The following are the 20 top-selling vehicles in the United States through February 2009 as reported by automakers.

Following is a list of the top-20 selling vehicles, ranked by total units.
RANK VEHICLE 2009 2008 '08 RANK % Chng
1 Ford F-Series P/U 48,851 93,673 1 -47.8
2 Chevy Silverado-C/K P/U 43,775 80,218 2 -45.4
3 Toyota Camry 41,416 66,515 3 -37.7
4 Toyota Corolla 37,341 41,938 4 -11.0
5 Honda Accord 32,557 51,588 6 -36.9
6 Nissan Altima 30,137 44,998 9 -33.0
7 Honda Civic 29,885 44,792 8 -33.3
8 Dodge Ram P/U 27,291 42,544 5 -35.9
9 Honda CR-V 25,513 31,710 11 -19.5
10 Chevrolet Malibu 20,828 27,001 26 -22.9
11 Ford Escape 18,450 25,383 17 -27.3
12 Ford Focus 17,673 27,902 15 -36.7
13 Toyota RAV4 16,432 21,274 18 -22.8
14 Ford Fusion 15,755 24,163 20 -34.8
15 Jeep Wrangler 15,450 13,225 +16.8
16 Toyota Prius 15,353 22,272 16 -31.1
17 Chevrolet Impala 14,867 42,740 7 -65.2
18 GMC Sierra P/U 14,420 28,288 12 -49.0
19 Mazda 3 13,996 14,472 -3.3
20 Chevrolet Cobalt 13,508 34,268 14 -60.6

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I found this on Routers and on CNN. To me it looks like the #1 and #2 spots are still TRUCKS. Yes sales accross the board have fallen almost 50%, but even so they still outselling the Camry.

Sales of trucks were stronger recently because of lower gas prices as well as HUGE incentives placed on these vehicles. That being said when you look at the top 10 on the list 7 are small cars. Doing some quick math indicates that even with the stronger sales of trucks, they were still declining 10% faster in unit sales than small to mid size vehicles.

While the margins may usually be higher on the trucks, considering the incentives required to get the number up, one would really have to wonder if those vehicles aren't nearly as profitable as they were in the past.

-spence

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

And you "facts" come from?

I found this on Routers and on CNN. To me it looks like the #1 and #2 spots are still TRUCKS. Yes sales accross the board have fallen almost 50%, but even so they still outselling the Camry.

I don't care about rank, its the fact that a 50% fall in sales is pathetic.

And lets notice who the 2 BIGGEST LOSERS are.
Ford
Chevy

Least sales drop? Toyota.
Jeep is kind of a conundrum. They're effing terrible on gas yet people equate "small" with "economy".

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by likwid

.
Jeep is kind of a conundrum. They're effing terrible on gas yet people equate "small" with "economy".

My Liberty diesel gets 25 mpg, not as good as I would like with a 2.8l engine but much better than the gas version

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Spence, I really am amazed at your lack of any critical thnking unless it is directed at peoples posts. Are you able to look at all into the future? I heard yesterday that Obama and Cos plan is to eliminate some of GMs most profitable vehicles, what are they? BIG TRUCKS!! So now they'll force GM to make more cars people dont want, and how will they ensure that they are profitable? THEY WILL RAISE THE GAS TAX TO MAKE PEOPLE BUY SMALLER CARS!!!
Do you ever stop and think what this all means? Stop and read the constitution!

Yes Jimmy, I don't think critically at all

Perhaps you should try to evaluate an issue from more than your narrow perspective before letting the spittle fly onto your keyboard.

SUV's and trucks may have been profitable in the past but sales of new units have dropped dramatically in the past few years.

You work in fianance so I'm sure you can comprehend this, right?

Higher profit margins are relative to volume. It doesn't make any sense for a company to restructure based on a business model that has proven to be unbalanced.

The Government is putting pressure on GM to adopt a restructing plan based on GM's failure to meet obligations it agreed to by taking Billions in loans last year.

This notion that the Government is dictating what kind of car you're going to be able to drive is simply absurd. You can still buy that SUV you've always dreamed about. It may cost you more to operate, but perhaps it should as well. Large cars and trucks have benefited from artifically low gas prices for decades due to Government actions, and as we've seen the balance is simply not sustainable.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

This notion that the Government is dictating what kind of car you're going to be able to drive is simply absurd. You can still buy that SUV you've always dreamed about. It may cost you more to operate, but perhaps it should as well. Large cars and trucks have benefited from artifically low gas prices for decades due to Government actions, and as we've seen the balance is simply not sustainable.

-spence

Yes, its absurd.
I guess I was having some wacky paranoid dream, thanks for waking me up. I dreamed that the government passed salary caps on major bank executives salaries, then I dreamed that congress proposed a 90% bonus tax, then its gets even MORE bizzare, I dreamed that the President of the United States guranteed warranties on Chrysler and GM cars and to top it all of he fires the president of GM. WHoa! That was wild. I can't even imagine in my wildest dreams Obama would further ensure GMs stability by manipulating gas prices or legistlation that would push people to buy GM. This is America after all.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I dreamed that the government passed salary caps on major bank executives salaries,

Only on banks taking TARP money.

then I dreamed that congress proposed a 90% bonus tax

The House can propose anything but this wasn't signed into law was it?

I dreamed that the President of the United States guranteed warranties on Chrysler and GM cars

A temporary program aimed to boost consumer confidence in an organization that the taxpayer has a large stake in.

and to top it all of he fires the president of GM.

Actually they asked him to step down because GM didn't meet the obligations they agreed to by taking taxpayer money, but...

I could of course bring up my dreams from the last 8 years, but Bush isn't in office any more so I'll pass...

-spence

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by spence

I could of course bring up my dreams from the last 8 years, but Bush isn't in office any more so I'll pass...

-spence

So at least that one dream came true huh? No more Bush....

I'll be having nightmares for at least the next 4 years........

[JohnnyD]

Also, I'm tired of people saying the only reason Toyota was able to do so well is because it isn't Union. What about Ford? Ford is union and they have been surviving without any government handouts.

Ford's CEO too proactive approaches to prevent a situation like this. He sold off losing portions of the company like Jaguar and utilized that money to create products the consumer wants.

Another example of Ford doing it right in comparison to GM doing it wrong - Ford is the first domestic car company to bring to market a viable hybrid option for the consumer. Ford anticipated that more consumers would want a hybrid option. On average, people are commuting further to work than they were 20 years ago and Ford recognized the demand.

As I've been saying for months, a poor business plan is why companies like GM are in the toilet. They've been far below the curve for years and should have been sold off after they thought the Aztek was a good vehicle to bring to market.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

They've been far below the curve for years and should have been sold off after they thought the Aztek was a good vehicle to bring to market.

The Pontiac Aztek may not have been a great vehicle, but it came with the worlds best anti-theft sytem.












It's looks.

[RIJIMMY]

toyota succeeds because of the mastery of lean processing. Constant process improvement, measuring progress, correcting measures is ingrained in their culture.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

toyota succeeds because of the mastery of lean processing. Constant process improvement, measuring progress, correcting measures is ingrained in their culture.

All these actions are representational of a solid company. Companies that do not keep track of detailed metrics do not deserve to exist. They are allowed to continue to operate based on pockets of ignorance in the consumer base.

GM should spend more time tracking metrics and making improvements than investing R&D in that POS Hummer, H2, H3 and I'm sure they have the H4 in the works. They grasp on to these short-lived fads and are unable to sell enough units to turn a decent ROI.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

All these actions are representational of a solid company. Companies that do not keep track of detailed metrics do not deserve to exist. They are allowed to continue to operate based on pockets of ignorance in the consumer base.

GM should spend more time tracking metrics and making improvements than investing R&D in that POS Hummer, H2, H3 and I'm sure they have the H4 in the works. They grasp on to these short-lived fads and are unable to sell enough units to turn a decent ROI.

Source: GoAuto.com.au

HUMMER will consolidate its upcoming H3 range in Australia from 2009 with a variety of new models that will include a compact SUV, diesel, ethanol and hybrid power, and a new full-sized H2.

Central to this will be engineering and design input from General Motors’ global outposts, including Holden, but perhaps Hummer’s most ambitious plan involves a vehicle that sits below the H3 – currently the company’s smallest offering.

Known as the H4 – although this may change by the time it appears around 2010 – it will give the Hummer brand a vital weapon in the United States against premium-priced compact SUVs such as the Nissan Murano.

Yay another vehicle that its origional inspiriation is similar in name only!

American automobile manufacturers are complete idiots.
They were in trouble BEFORE the market tanked.

Luxury: ruled by europe
Economy: ruled by japan and europe
Longevity: ruled by japan
Innovation: ruled by europe
Driveability: ruled by europe

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by likwid

Source: GoAuto.com.au

HUMMER will consolidate its upcoming H3 range in Australia from 2009 with a variety of new models that will include a compact SUV, diesel, ethanol and hybrid power, and a new full-sized H2.

Central to this will be engineering and design input from General Motors’ global outposts, including Holden, but perhaps Hummer’s most ambitious plan involves a vehicle that sits below the H3 – currently the company’s smallest offering.

Known as the H4 – although this may change by the time it appears around 2010 – it will give the Hummer brand a vital weapon in the United States against premium-priced compact SUVs such as the Nissan Murano.

When I made my post, I had no idea about this. I was just speculating. This is what happens when an entire sub-company is based around only one model.

I can't effing believe this... and we're giving these idiots even more money???

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

When I made my post, I had no idea about this. I was just speculating. This is what happens when an entire sub-company is based around only one model.

I can't effing believe this... and we're giving these idiots even more money???

I thought GM didn't have any presence outside of the US?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

All these actions are representational of a solid company. Companies that do not keep track of detailed metrics do not deserve to exist. They are allowed to continue to operate based on pockets of ignorance in the consumer base.

GM should spend more time tracking metrics and making improvements than investing R&D in that POS Hummer, H2, H3 and I'm sure they have the H4 in the works. They grasp on to these short-lived fads and are unable to sell enough units to turn a decent ROI.

yup

Also, think of this. Why would ANYONE qualified to make change and take big business risks join GM? What superstar would want the job?So that if they are successful and receive compensation to match their success they will be publicly flogged by the congress? The reaction to the AIG bonuses has put a serious bruise on the credibility of the government. Many qualified and intelligent people will not be signing up to work for any companies tied to the government.