So now Nth Korea has Nuke warheads?

[Cool Beans]

Disturbing news from The London Times

" The world’s intelligence agencies and defense experts are quietly acknowledging that North Korea has become a fully fledged nuclear power with the capacity to wipe out entire cities in Japan and South Korea, the Times of London reported.

The new reality has emerged in off-hand remarks and in single sentences buried in lengthy reports. Increasing numbers of authoritative experts — from the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to the U.S. Defense Secretary — are admitting that North Korea has miniaturized nuclear warheads to the extent that they can be launched on medium-range missiles, according to intelligence briefings.

This puts it ahead of Iran in the race for nuclear attack capability and seriously alters the balance of power between North Korea’s large but poorly equipped military and the South Korean and U.S. forces ranged against it. “North Korea has nuclear weapons, which is a matter of fact,” the head of the IAEA, Mohamed ElBaradei, said this week. “I don’t like to accept any country as a nuclear weapon state we have to face reality.”

North Korea carried out an underground nuclear test in 2006 but until recently foreign governments believed that such nuclear devices were useless as weapons because they were too unwieldy to be mounted on a missile.

With 13,000 artillery pieces buried close to the border between the two Koreas, and chemical and biological warheads, it was always understood that the North could inflict significant conventional damage on Seoul, the South Korean capital. Military planners had calculated, however, that it could not strike outside the peninsula.

Now North Korea’s supreme leader, Kim Jong Il, has the potential to kill millions in Japan as well as the South, and to lay waste U.S. bases and airfields in both countries. It will force military strategists to rethink plans for war in Korea and significantly increase the potential costs of any intervention in a future Korean war. The shift from acknowledging North Korea’s nuclear weapons development program to recognizing it as a fully fledged nuclear power is highly controversial. South Korea, in particular, resists the reclassification because it could give the North greater leverage in negotiations."

[JohnnyD]

This is news?

We've known for sometime that North Korea was "months away" from building a completed nuclear warhead.

The London Times has had their head in the sand if they think this is actual news. I have full confidence that our military leaders have already been planning on a nuclear powered North Korea.

I mean come on, they've already tested a nuclear device once.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

This is news?

We've known for sometime that North Korea was "months away" from building a completed nuclear warhead.

The London Times has had their head in the sand if they think this is actual news. I have full confidence that our military leaders have already been planning on a nuclear powered North Korea.

I mean come on, they've already tested a nuclear device once.

I think the point is that they now have a delivery mechanism.

North Korea has to be up there with the bigger failures of the Bush Administration. Call them out as an Axis of Evil founding member and then ignore them for seven years. That's some miracle of foreign policy

-spence

[GonnaCatchABig1]

i thought it was known for a while they had nukes. for at least the past 4-5 years there have been talks about nukes in korea. maybe even longer. as i was always under the impression they had at least one.

doesn't really scare me too much. Nkorea alone couldn't deliver the nuke to the u.s.. not using conventional means anyway. the second they launched a missile nearly all of the worlds carrier squadrons patrolling the pacific would intercept it within minutes. they don't exactly have top of the line delivery methods.

they could how ever i suppose.. drop it some where a bit closer. in hopes of starting the domino effect. but that wouldn't be very beneficial to them at all. despite all the talk on how evil they are. their leadership doesn't want to destroy the world. what good would that do? hell even their hatred of the U.S. is nothing more than semantics. all dictatorships and most communist leaders use the same strategy. rally the people around one common goal. the most effective of which being "we being oppressed by this country. we must rally together and stand fast against this evil!" it's worked over and over again through out history. including here.

all the "aggression" they are showing right now is nothing more than a child throwing a hissy fit to get attention. the officials there know the country is doomed unless it gains access to the rest of the world. how ever they have to stay steadfast to the big bad U.S.A. theory or else everything crumbles. and the people will be outraged that they suffered so long for no reason. soooo they start throwing out threats and making scenes to get attention and bring people to the bargaining table. i will ASSUME that il knows he can't win the war. so he knows his threats aren't able to be used as bargaining chips once every one has sat down. but that's all he really wants.

of course if that doesn't work out. (which it isn't) he can still fall back on the "we have the military might and will overcome" crap, that they have been spouting for decades.

so it really works out both ways. one they get the attention they wanted. and two when that doesn't work. he gave his people a show of force and defiance that will lift their spirits. it's brilliant really. if.... you want to retain power over the people no matter what the costs..

[spence]

North Korea isn't going to nuke anybody. The bigger issue is likely that they'll sell technology. Aside from Plinko machines it's about their only viable export.

-spence

[GonnaCatchABig1]

Originally Posted by spence

North Korea isn't going to nuke anybody. The bigger issue is likely that they'll sell technology. Aside from Plinko machines it's about their only viable export.

-spence

pretty much. to bad there isn't really a market for nuke tech these days. anybody with ability to use the plans either already has em or can get em from russia. then of course there is the issue iran is having. which is being able to actually put the plans to use with out getting bombed.

i highly doubt N. Korea is willing to start selling off their small cache of already made weapons. really the threat of their use is the only thing keeping the borders secure at the moment. with out them N. Korea becomes just Korea.

there is really nothing that country can do. other than submit completely. until then however, they will continue to throw hissy fits. unless another world war erupts. which could very well happen in the next decade.

according to estimates... 375million people will be "displaced" each year over the next 5 (maybe 10) years from natural disasters as a result of climate change. factor in other effects of such disasters.. poverty, famine, disease. you have a nice little pot with to stir up a land grab war. especially when nations populations are on the verge of anarchy.

edit..

and don't forget the already in motion land grab going on up north for oil reserves which are currently covered by ice, but expected to thaw out in the coming years.

which i really love. "global warming doesn't exist. but we are mobilizing the troops to secure the oil fields that will thaw out soon." :\

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

I think the point is that they now have a delivery mechanism.

-spence

I see no reason for surprise. The step from having a nuclear device and a working ballistic missile system to combining the two is a a mere baby step.

It's seemed very clear that while we're on the other side of the world "looking for Saddams WMDs", North Korea was a mere months to a year away from a working nuclear weapon that could hit Alaska or Hawaii.

The reason George "Mr. Tough Guy" Bush couldn't do anything about it is because a full-blown war with China was possible. Yet, he was too stupid to understand that taking the "Internet Tough Guy" stance with them by calling them names would instigate the situation.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

I think the point is that they now have a delivery mechanism.

North Korea has to be up there with the bigger failures of the Bush Administration. Call them out as an Axis of Evil founding member and then ignore them for seven years. That's some miracle of foreign policy

-spence

ummm.....Spence Alynski...High Minister of Propoganda(or is that Minister of High Propoganda)....the "ONLY" reason that N. Korea has nuclear capability is because Clinton, Albright, Richardson and Carter thought it wise to give them reactors/technology...Madeline Albright is running around to this day saying "they cheated, they lied to us"....no crap you little troll...an oppressive communist dictator lied to you to get his hands on destructive technology....go figure??????

but just blame it on Bush...that's easy....

Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 1:15:28 PM by excludethis

Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright admitted for the first time on Sunday that under the Clinton administration's Agreed Framework arms control treaty with Kim Jong-il, North Korea "cheated."

Asked point-blank if North Korea developed nuclear weapons during the Clinton administration, Albright told NBC's "Meet the Press," "No, what they were doing, as it turns out, they were cheating."

"The worst part that has happened under the Agreed Framework," Albright said, was that "there [were] these fuel rods, and the nuclear program was frozen."

But because of North Korea's cheating, she explained, "those fuel rods have now been reprocessed, as far as we know, and North Korea has a capability, which at one time might have been two potential nuclear weapons, up to six to eight now, we're not really clear."

Albright's comments came less than 24 hours after reports surfaced that Pyongyang detonated what some said was its first above-ground nuclear test – though experts later said the mushroom-cloud explosion witnessed by tens of thousands was a non-nuclear event.

In a February 2003 interview, Albright boasted to NBC, "When we had the Agreed Framework, we did freeze those fuel rods, and had we not, in the last years, we would have somewhere, people calculate, 50 to 100 nuclear weapons."

A 1999 congressional study determined that Pyongyang was cheating on the agreement, but Albright disregarded the warning and continued to claim that the Agreed Framework was a success.

[buckman]

I'm sure the new administration has this well in hand. Just another little dose of reality for them, that's all.

[Raven]

is looking OLDER every day with what he knows.

[Nebe]

All they want is food and oil... Every thing else is fear tacticts to get more aid..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

And now they are kicking out the UN inspectors. I'm starting to have flashbacks of what Saddam did. If Saddam had allowed the inspectors to do there job, then Bush would have never went to war there. Remember?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by buckman

And now they are kicking out the UN inspectors. I'm starting to have flashbacks of what Saddam did. If Saddam had allowed the inspectors to do there job, then Bush would have never went to war there. Remember?

Or...
he never would have had that excuse to go to war, and would have found another.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

And now they are kicking out the UN inspectors. I'm starting to have flashbacks of what Saddam did. If Saddam had allowed the inspectors to do there job, then Bush would have never went to war there. Remember?

Yes, I do remember.

Hans Blix stated that the UN inspectors were close to completing their report and needed a small amount of time to finish their work. While Saddam had certainly not been cooperative, they felt they were able to complete an accurate assessment.

Rather than risk the embarrassment of a report that didn't back the claims that Saddam was an urgent threat...Bush in turn decided to invade.

Follow up reports by Bush's own inspectors came to basically the same conclusions as the UN team under Hans Blix. Saddam had no stockpiles of WMD and no active weapons programs.

-spence

[buckman]

I remember Saddam playing with the UN like the back boneless organization they are. Why didn't Hans finish his inspections?

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

I remember Saddam playing with the UN like the back boneless organization they are. Why didn't Hans finish his inspections?

Initially Saddam was certainly playing games with the inspectors, Hans Blix even reported about this to the UN. But as the US Troops built up Saddam did become more cooperative.

What's important to note though is that Blix stated very specifically that they were confident in their findings even knowing that Saddam was attempting to hamper their progress.

The inspections were not finished because Bush started the invasion. Blix requested some more time, less than a month if I remember, to complete their report.

I think we can both agree that the decision to go to war was made in advance and that the UN process was simply an attempt to appease the middle.

This was Bush's conundrum. The case for war was so thin he couldn't risk invading without legal authority as the hard line neo-cons so desired. Going to the UN ultimately proved to just make things look worse when the "given" justification for war proved to be invalid.

It's too bad that Powell lost the argument...

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Initially Saddam was certainly playing games with the inspectors, Hans Blix even reported about this to the UN. But as the US Troops built up Saddam did become more cooperative.

What's important to note though is that Blix stated very specifically that they were confident in their findings even knowing that Saddam was attempting to hamper their progress.

The inspections were not finished because Bush started the invasion. Blix requested some more time, less than a month if I remember, to complete their report.

I think we can both agree that the decision to go to war was made in advance and that the UN process was simply an attempt to appease the middle.

This was Bush's conundrum. The case for war was so thin he couldn't risk invading without legal authority as the hard line neo-cons so desired. Going to the UN ultimately proved to just make things look worse when the "given" justification for war proved to be invalid.

It's too bad that Powell lost the argument...

-spence

uhhhh, not this again. How many freakin UN resolutions did they break, over and over and over and over again.
We always forget that war monger Bush came out and gave Sadam and untimatum of 48 hrs to leave the country. I think we jumped through more hoops to avoid war than any other time in history.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I think we jumped through more hoops to avoid war than any other time in history.

You have got to be %$%$%$%$ing kidding
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

You have got to be %$%$%$%$ing kidding
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I recall endless resolutions also. Saddam laughed at the UN as did most of the world. I remember the left saying the war would be another Vietnam. Saddam would turn loose his gasses on our troops. You know, the gasses that everyone now says, they knew he didn't have ,(BS). We won the first war, he had rules he was to follow, he ignored, taunted and ridiculed the UN inspectors.

I still believe we were right in going in there and the big picture will become clearer for you Libs,when Obama takes credit for bringing Democracy in the Middle East.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I think we jumped through more hoops to avoid war than any other time in history.

This statement is so absurd I don't even know where to begin...

-spence

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by spence

This statement is so absurd I don't even know where to begin...

-spence

how about this.... jim was Bushwhacked.. plain and simple.

[RIJIMMY]

god Im having spence and nebe flashbacks from 5 years ago.......... I cant handle it.....

[JohnnyD]

I have a very high respect for most people that sign up for the military.

However, my experience has been that the just about every Marine drinks the patriotic kool-aid. If their superiors say Iraq is a threat, then they believe Iraq is a threat, no questions asked. Marines are trained to be subordinate, and questioning their country is an ultimate sign of insubordination. Also, just about every single one I have met had extremely conservative views.
The irony is that I probably would have been a Marine Officer if I wasn't medically declined a few months in.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I have a very high respect for most people that sign up for the military.

However, my experience has been that the just about every Marine drinks the patriotic kool-aid. If their superiors say Iraq is a threat, then they believe Iraq is a threat, no questions asked. Marines are trained to be subordinate, and questioning their country is an ultimate sign of insubordination. Also, just about every single one I have met had extremely conservative views.
The irony is that I probably would have been a Marine Officer if I wasn't medically declined a few months in.

Most of the Marines I spoke with hold the rank of Colonel or above.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

Most of the Marines I spoke with hold the rank of Colonel or above.

Now that is a completely different story.

My experience was with the hundred or so I was consistently in direct contact with, all aged 18-25.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

However, my experience has been that the just about every Marine drinks the patriotic kool-aid. If their superiors say Iraq is a threat, then they believe Iraq is a threat, no questions asked. Marines are trained to be subordinate, and questioning their country is an ultimate sign of insubordination. Also, just about every single one I have met had extremely conservative views.
The irony is that I probably would have been a Marine Officer if I wasn't medically declined a few months in.

I think you're really selling a lot of Marine's short to think they've been trained to not think rationally about orders. Discipline is a different thing...

-spence

[keeperreaper]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I have a very high respect for most people that sign up for the military.

However, my experience has been that the just about every Marine drinks the patriotic kool-aid. If their superiors say Iraq is a threat, then they believe Iraq is a threat, no questions asked. Marines are trained to be subordinate, and questioning their country is an ultimate sign of insubordination. Also, just about every single one I have met had extremely conservative views.
The irony is that I probably would have been a Marine Officer if I wasn't medically declined a few months in.

That's pretty short sighted to label all Marines as subordinate cool-aid drinking conservatives.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by keeperreaper

That's pretty short sighted to label all Marines as subordinate cool-aid drinking conservatives.

As I said above, it's an observation based on my direct experience. However, those observations were almost all of low ranking soldiers or soldiers to be.

[keeperreaper]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

As I said above, it's an observation based on my direct experience. However, those observations were almost all of low ranking soldiers or soldiers to be.

You might want to have added that portion to your original unpatriotic statement.

Were you going to teach/accept insubordination to/from your direct reports if you achieved the rank of Marine officer?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by keeperreaper

You might want to have added that portion to your original unpatriotic statement.

That's right, because observations and free thinking are unpatriotic.

As I said in my original response, "my experience has been". In my beginning days in trying to get into the Corp's Officer school, one of the Staff Sergeants said, "Enlisted men are not trained to think. If you become an officer, you will be trained to think for them."

It doesn't get more blatant than that. And those are not my words.