Finishing Lure Shop/Getting Started with Pencils

[Eric Roach]

My 11' x 13' lure shop is framed-out in the basement. An electrician is coming today to add a sub-panel and to wire the outlets & lighting. I have my new Jet 1014I, a 1hp dust collector, a 17" drill press and a mitre saw. A 14" bandsaw and an air filtration unit are on order. I still have to pick up a belt/disc sander, a grinder to sharpen lathe tools, a lead smelter for jigs and lure weights and a Vega (down the road). I'm going to pass on a table saw for now and just rip my stock with the bandsaw.

It's been a lot of fun getting set-up. I'm really excited. Usually the winter is just a long drawn-out wait for the bass to return, but I'm really looking forward to the time I have to build. I figure I'll be finished with the basement and ready to turn by the first week of January.

I have a good friend in NH who turns and locally sells his spooks, poppers, pikies & dannys, so I feel I have a little bit of a headstart in tool selection, building technique & safety.

I'm going to initially stick to making pencils/skippers throughout the winter as I learn the differences in wood characteristics, weighting, manipulating action, etc.

I like pencils with these types of action:
1. A model that can whippy-stick well in a wind-blown chop with minimal nose-diving.
2. A model that walks-the-dog like a spook at a slow/medium clip in calm water.
3. A model that is a compromise between the two (something like a Gibbs).

I'm wondering if anyone has any beginner's advice in terms of wood type for pencils in general, and possibly for these desired actions in particular.

Thanks,

Eric

[BigFish]

Eric just a curious question so we know where you stand as far as tool expertise? Have you any experience on a lathe? I ask because when I started I had none.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Eric just a curious question so we know where you stand as far as tool expertise? Have you any experience on a lathe? I ask because when I started I had none.

Minimal. I've turned a couple of plugs on my buddy's lathe, but I'm going to have to have him by my side once everything is together and I'm ready to begin. I don't plan on turning anything before that out of fear of doing something ill-advised or downright dangerous.

[numbskull]

You are going to learn that it is very hard to improve on anything Stan Gibbs built. You will find the same for Don Musso and Danny Pichney.

Start with the Gibbs design ( 2.75 oz is a good one and one of the very best bass plugs ever built), from there you will find that if you lessen the tail weight (or move it forward in the plug) to get the plug floating at more of an angle, you will get an easier and longer walk the dog action. If you widen the waist and increase the weight, you will get a plug that will slap a lot but not glide much (I don't like this...but bluefish do).

Wood choice isn't as important as weight/width/length/float angle. Eastern White Pine, sugar pine, basswood, AYC, and presumably red cedar all work fine. AYC is the densest. Soft woods will dent if used in the canal.

Some step drills are very useful for tail weighting plugs on center. Or drill the weight hole first and finish through drilling from there.

[BigFish]

If you have no lathe experience I would recommend simply turning some shapes to get a feel for the tools, possibly find a book about turning so you can get an idea of the proper technique. If you have experience try turning some known plugs as Numbscull suggests to get a feel for the process and an understanding of form and function.....also test your finished plugs (prototypes)prior to the finishing proess to make sure they perform as you wish. Its best to test them in the water naked to be sure they do as you wish prior to sealing, priming, painting so you do not waste alot of time on a plug that does not give you the proper action. I presume you also have fishing experience? You need this to know what you may be looking for in a plugs action? You don't speak much of your experience so its difficult to advise?

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by BigFish

If you have no lathe experience I would recommend simply turning some shapes to get a feel for the tools, possibly find a book about turning so you can get an idea of the proper technique. If you have experience try turning some known plugs as Numbscull suggests to get a feel for the process and an understanding of form and function.....also test your finished plugs (prototypes)prior to the finishing proess to make sure they perform as you wish. Its best to test them in the water naked to be sure they do as you wish prior to sealing, priming, painting so you do not waste alot of time on a plug that does not give you the proper action. I presume you also have fishing experience? You need this to know what you may be looking for in a plugs action? You don't speak much of your experience so its difficult to advise?

Aside from my friend's direct help, I'll probably take a lathe class at my local Woodcraft store.

I'm going to stick to pencils/skippers at first until I get the basics down and am able to repetitively (not perfectly) build pencils that I would choose over ones I would buy (tall order, I know).

I plan on doing a lot of testing. I have distinct actions in mind so I feel like I have clear goals (at least for this style lure).

I have about 13 year's experience striper fishing.

[numbskull]

AYC and Red cedar are pretty allergenic. Pine and Basswood are good to start with and very easy to turn.

Learn to use a skew, the rest is simple.
3 tools only. Roughing gouge, parting tool, and 1+ inch skew.
4 sets of calibers.
A long tool rest.

[Slipknot]

for pencils, I like red cedar
be careful the dust is real bad
you could seal the red cedar with epoxy and it will make it harder.
port orford cedar is fine also

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

AYC and Red cedar are pretty allergenic. Pine and Basswood are good to start with and very easy to turn.

Learn to use a skew, the rest is simple.
3 tools only. Roughing gouge, parting tool, and 1+ inch skew.
4 sets of calibers.
A long tool rest.

Thanks. What is a caliber?

I met my friend at Woodcraft tonight and got some Sorby turning tools: A 3/4" roughing gouge, a 3/16" diamond parting tool & a 3/4" skew. He also mentioned these are all he ever uses for plugs.

I ordered a 12" tool rest and the 10" Vega duplicator.

I also brought home a 17" Jet drill press, a Jet wet grinder and a Rikon 4" belt/6" disc sander...I'm all done obtaining the power equipment (though still waiting for the bandsaw & air filtration unit).

All I have to do is finish the actual shop and I'm ready to begin. I'm sheetrock-ing the ceiling this weekend. Things are looking good for having it completely finished New Year's weekend.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

You are going to learn that it is very hard to improve on anything Stan Gibbs built. You will find the same for Don Musso and Danny Pichney.

Start with the Gibbs design ( 2.75 oz is a good one and one of the very best bass plugs ever built), from there you will find that if you lessen the tail weight (or move it forward in the plug) to get the plug floating at more of an angle, you will get an easier and longer walk the dog action. If you widen the waist and increase the weight, you will get a plug that will slap a lot but not glide much (I don't like this...but bluefish do).

Wood choice isn't as important as weight/width/length/float angle. Eastern White Pine, sugar pine, basswood, AYC, and presumably red cedar all work fine. AYC is the densest. Soft woods will dent if used in the canal.

Some step drills are very useful for tail weighting plugs on center. Or drill the weight hole first and finish through drilling from there.

Hi numbskull -- good to see you on here. I appreciate all the practical advice.

When the shop is done I'm going to pick up a small quantity of each of the wood types you mentioned. I'll probably buy more of the cheapest so I can burn through some stock while I'm learning the basics.

My friend makes nice, thin pencils with a great walk/glide I'd like to emulate in different sizes. They wobble somewhat on the cast, but I guess that's the price you pay for that action. They still outcast a spook of the same size and they catch some excellent fish.

I like Striper Sniper pencils for whippy-sticking, but I wish they'd cast better (at least the 2 oz)...I'd really like to build a pencil that casts true and thrashes well at distance in a chop.

I hear you about attempting to improve on a Gibbs. One of my favorite just-for-fun daytime lures is a 1 oz Gibbs pencil. Casts extremely well and catches fish of all sizes. I'd like to build a 3/4 oz version of this. I'm also looking forward to putting better belly swivels in pencils of this size.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

You are going to learn that it is very hard to improve on anything Stan Gibbs built. You will find the same for Don Musso and Danny Pichney.

Start with the Gibbs design ( 2.75 oz is a good one and one of the very best bass plugs ever built), from there you will find that if you lessen the tail weight (or move it forward in the plug) to get the plug floating at more of an angle, you will get an easier and longer walk the dog action. If you widen the waist and increase the weight, you will get a plug that will slap a lot but not glide much (I don't like this...but bluefish do).

Wood choice isn't as important as weight/width/length/float angle. Eastern White Pine, sugar pine, basswood, AYC, and presumably red cedar all work fine. AYC is the densest. Soft woods will dent if used in the canal.

Some step drills are very useful for tail weighting plugs on center. Or drill the weight hole first and finish through drilling from there.

Good to see you, numbskull. Thank you for the advice.

I'm going to pick up a little of each of the wood you mentioned; more of the cheapest stuff so I can burn through some stock as I learn.

[GattaFish]

Pictures,,,,

[Pete F.]

You can use a handheld belt sander to sand what you need to start and also use it to sharpen your lathe tools. You can melt lead in a dollar store ladle with a propane torch to start. Use maple to make some weight molds, if you find some that you will make tons of then a fancy one would be in order. I agree with numbskull and would also suggest that you take your favorite plugs and copy them to start. That way you have one that works perfect to use as a guide for how yours work. You can turn out a lot of stuff really quick, but then again bluefish need plugs too.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You can use a handheld belt sander to sand what you need to start and also use it to sharpen your lathe tools. You can melt lead in a dollar store ladle with a propane torch to start. Use maple to make some weight molds, if you find some that you will make tons of then a fancy one would be in order. I agree with numbskull and would also suggest that you take your favorite plugs and copy them to start. That way you have one that works perfect to use as a guide for how yours work. You can turn out a lot of stuff really quick, but then again bluefish need plugs too.

Thanks for the advice, Pete (Slipknot too). I guess I'll be starting with the Gibbs pencil design and exploring from there.

I appreciate all the starting advice from everyone.

[Swimmer]

Hey Eric, this thread is useless without pictures of the construction and of the finished product, that is the tool shop. Take some pics and upload.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Hey Eric, this thread is useless without pictures of the construction and of the finished product, that is the tool shop. Take some pics and upload.

I'll snap a few shots this weekend of the construction and put them up.

[Pete F.]

I put a piece of tape on my tool rest and put marks on it for end of plug and major/minor diameters. All my blanks are the same length and if they are center drilled I do that first. This makes it so you can set up for drilling and drill them all right/wrong at once. Make the blank a cylinder, use the skew to define the ends, gouge again to get close to shape, skew to clean up, sand. I usually lay the plug I am making or a picture behind the lathe so I can match the curves. Depends on how good your eye is if that will work for you.

[numbskull]

Masking tape and layout marks on the tool rest is a major time saver.

[ProfessorM]

I am in the opposite camp. I only turn with a duplicator. I make my patterns first then I turn them. I adjust my patterns to what I want the plug to look like. I have never turned a plug with hand tools in my life. I got plenty of hand tools just never interested me to use them. I also have been running lathes for 30 yeas so I don't find anything really fun about turning. I just want it off the lathe and on to the other, fun, aspects. Just want to let you know there are many ways to make plugs and I am glad to hear many find turning to be fun. Keep at it and always keep it fun.

[Rockfish9]

I only own one set of calipers, instead, I've opted to make a set of gauges from wire, I've made them from left over peices of heavy welders wire, I make them in the shape of a U and label each size with painters tape( I also have a set of "L" shaped ones for measuring common distances), I put them in a home made holder with holes drilled every 1/4", they are graduated from 1/4" to 2" in 1/4 fractions, with exception to some sizes (like 5/8) that I commonly use...

As far as dupe versus hand turning... I split the duty pretty much down the middle...Having two lathes helps alot...

[numbskull]

There is a helpful book by an Englishman, F Pain, called "The Practical Wood Turner". I don't know if it is still available, but it was paperback and cost about $6 when I bought it. Written by a guy who spent his life turning wood for a living. Tons of useful tips and explanations in there. Great read for anyone interested in turning without a duplicator.

Checked amazon. Plenty of used paperback versions for cheap. It is not anything you'd collect so don't worry if it is a beater. Its value is all in its words.

[mfm22]

Eric I'm cutting some blanks in the morning ayc 1 1/2 x 1 1/2
send me mail addy I' send a few blanks 7" long ?
you can see how that works ..find it easier to cut than red cedar

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

I am in the opposite camp. I only turn with a duplicator. I make my patterns first then I turn them. I adjust my patterns to what I want the plug to look like. I have never turned a plug with hand tools in my life. I got plenty of hand tools just never interested me to use them. I also have been running lathes for 30 yeas so I don't find anything really fun about turning. I just want it off the lathe and on to the other, fun, aspects. Just want to let you know there are many ways to make plugs and I am glad to hear many find turning to be fun. Keep at it and always keep it fun.

What I do now if I want to duplicate a plug is take it into work, put it on the Copier then take the paper copy and cut out a stencil, then transfer that to a templet for the duplicator. Works pretty pissah and i don't have to rewire an original after I mount it on the Duplicator

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

What I do now if I want to duplicate a plug is take it into work, put it on the Copier then take the paper copy and cut out a stencil, then transfer that to a templet for the duplicator. Works pretty pissah and i don't have to rewire an original after I mount it on the Duplicator

That's a neat trick.

[ProfessorM]

I agree, great insight by the good Dr. Maybe I may go out and buy a new lathe and put those tools to good use this year. Been contemplating it for several years.

[Charleston]

A bunch of guys use poplar for plugs.

[mfm22]

Eric shop sounds like its going to be winner .
I've got similar size sqft 12x12 '
you have some great advice in this thread

In my shop I find mobile base a big plus . I keep band saw on one and table saw on one . When they are need simply roll into open area and use -hook up vac hose and go .. when done reverse saves lots of space.
I use 3 benches .1 for lathe and drill press, one for assembly and another for misc and holding spray booth when painting .My table saw doubles for 4 bench when its against the wall.masonite on top=bench
don't forget to look up -use ceiling to hold racks hang plugs to dry
I have unfinished ceiling so floor joists double for cubbys ...store wood inbetween etc
Good luck and stay safe! if your not sure or it dosn't feel right stop think it out or give these guys a shout

[numbskull]

I'd think buying turning stock from a wood working store would be very expensive unless you are looking for small pieces of exotics.
Check out hardwood lumber stores for wood if you have access to a tablesaw. Otherwise, #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& and M&D's also have plug wood already cut to size (you can buy a lot of wood for the price of a tablesaw)
Maple needles are not likely to split (too narrow). Birch is fine (habs and gibbs used it), but open grained and a little rougher finished. Soft maple is a good wood to use for sinking plugs.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Charleston

A bunch of guys use poplar for plugs.

Yeah, I think it gets a bad rap because it is prone to rot. But plugs don't rot and properly sealed poplar has worked for me in the past. I've even made bluefish stuff out of fir/spruce 2x4's.

[ProfessorM]

a very handy tool is the dial caliper