Libya

[Jackbass]

Starting to get ugly. Amazing what happens when the truth comes out.

[Jim in CT]

Yep. Just in time for Ryan to use these developments to club Joe Biden like a baby seal. Bidens's strong suit is his formidable knowledge and experience in foreign relations, and now even that is a weapon for Romney/Ryan.

I'm not saying that the Libyan mess was forseeable and preventable. But the way it was handled by the Obama administration could not have been more bumbling or incompetent. It's pathetic, absolutely pathetic, and not suprising when yu elect a guy who is most famous for voting "present' 99% of the time as a state senator.

The State Department is now saying that they never believed that the attack was a response to the film. Yet there is video proof of administration officials saying that. What do they take us for, exactly? That's what you get when your state dept is headed by a liar (Hilary) who falsely claimed that snipers were firing her at an airport somewhere. I don't know how a politician is ever taken seriously after that. But this is what we elected, so it's what we deserve.

Not good timing for Obama.

[Scuttlebutt]

Not to mention the administration spent 70K to publish tv ads in Pakistan apologizing for the video. The State Department now confesses that there never was a protest outside the embassy before the attack. Ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, went on umpteen different talk shows suggesting, in fact, that the movie did provoke the attack. Wonder how the guy that made the movie feels now...OHHHHH BOY!

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's what you get when your state dept is headed by a liar (Hilary) who falsely claimed that snipers were firing her at an airport somewhere.

LOL, I forgot about that episode. Ya gotta laugh that was way too funny but
sadly true to form.

[justplugit]

So with Biden saying the Administration wasn't told they needed more
security at the Embassy in Bengazi, Obama should have attended more
than 50% of his daily security briefings and read less of them, especially leading up to the 9/11 anniversary.

Where does the buck stop?

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

So with Biden saying the Administration wasn't told they needed more
security at the Embassy in Bengazi, Obama should have attended more
than 50% of his daily security briefings and read less of them, especially leading up to the 9/11 anniversary.

Where does the buck stop?

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

[likwid]

Originally Posted by spence

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

You imply they make it up on their own.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

Spence, please enligten me.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

Are you feeling OK Spence? Biden specifically said that "we weren't told" that anyone asked for extra security.

Someone is making things up Spence. As usual, it's you.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by justplugit

So with Biden saying the Administration wasn't told they needed more
security at the Embassy in Bengazi, Obama should have attended more
than 50% of his daily security briefings and read less of them, especially leading up to the 9/11 anniversary.

Where does the buck stop?

Spence, to answer your making things up complaint:
Did not "Giggles" say at the VP debate the Administration was not told of the need for more security?
Was it not confirmed by the White House that Obama only
attended 50% of his daily security briefings and read the others?

As President of the United States and Commander in Chief his FIRST duty is
to protect American citizens. He should have attended all the briefings to
listen, have input, and question. Security briefing meetings are meant for just that, not speed reading after the fact. How are you doing your most important job if you only show up to 1/2 of your meetings?
Your not.

Spence, you show up at 50% of your company meetings and then fail at your
job. Tell me, where would the buck stop?

May be a few things here you may not want to hear, but they were not made
up, or parroted, just my take on the whole situation.

What are your unbiased Canadian newspaper subscriptions saying about the matter.

[blackxpress]

Pardon my ignorance but isn't the State Dept. part of the administration? If the State Dept. is this inept and if it's true that they aren't keeping the Pres. and VP in the loop on this kind of stuff whose fault is that exactly? And just exactly who is it that sets State Dept. policy with regard to embassy security anyway? Are we really supposed to believe the President has no say in these matters? Maybe he's too busy with his re-election to be bothered with such trivia.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, to answer your making things up complaint:
Did not "Giggles" say at the VP debate the Administration was not told of the need for more security?

The request was very specific, for an extension of a 16 person team based in Tripoli. My understanding is that the decision here is made at the deputy level, Clinton might not even have been aware of it.

I would assume that this would only go to the White House if it conflicted with already set policy or was deemed of grave importance. The request was denied as the policy was to continue to shift security to the Libyan government and limit US exposure.

People seem to be acting like Libya was going to blow up and Obama should have deployed a brigade of Marines.

That's really not the case. We're talking about a request for 16 people who wouldn't have been in a position to help defend the embassy staff even if they were approved.

Was it not confirmed by the White House that Obama only
attended 50% of his daily security briefings and read the others?

We've discussed this one to death. Obama has a different process than Bush did. That he's not always personally briefed doesn't mean he's now aware.

As President of the United States and Commander in Chief his FIRST duty is to protect American citizens. He should have attended all the briefings to listen, have input, and question. Security briefing meetings are meant for just that, not speed reading after the fact. How are you doing your most important job if you only show up to 1/2 of your meetings? Your not.

If the security issue never got beyond the deputies at State, how would having attended a briefing been any different than reading a brief?

The issue still wouldn't have been brought up and the same 4 Americans would have been killed.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, you show up at 50% of your company meetings and then fail at your
job. Tell me, where would the buck stop?

What are your unbiased Canadian newspaper subscriptions saying about the matter.

Spence I love when you explain your points with the words,
"assume", "seem",and "my understanding", like those are facts.
However, you never seem to answer all the questions, like the ones above.

As Comander in Chief it's his job to be informed. Ignorance is no defense.

So another question, what is your "understanding", "assumption" or "seem to you" where the Buck should Stop.

[buckman]

Not only was it foreseeable it was absolutely preventable .
This is a direct result of America's appease our enemy's foreign policy
Even Spence and Zimmy will be outraged
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[FishermanTim]

...the tail is waggin' the dog, man!

[spence]

I think a much more substantive topic is how does the US encourage democracy in Islamic countries without creating the same autocracies and monarchies that were a product of Cold War politics.

-spence

[spence]

Nobody is blaming Stevens, but his apparent comfort with the situation is certainly an important piece of information in what appears to be a complex situation.

Now Rep. Issa is calling for increased security after the House slashed the overall budget. I wonder if that's part of his investigation? Romney I'll remind you jumped to blame the Administration for Egypt before he even had his facts right.

These guys are chomping at the bit to paint this as Obama's 9/11.

Shameful.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Nobody is blaming Stevens, but his apparent comfort with the situation is certainly an important piece of information in what appears to be a complex situation.

Now Rep. Issa is calling for increased security after the House slashed the overall budget. I wonder if that's part of his investigation? Romney I'll remind you jumped to blame the Administration for Egypt before he even had his facts right.

These guys are chomping at the bit to paint this as Obama's 9/11.

Shameful.

-spence

It is, and should be, Obama's 09/11.

Bush got blamed for the subprime mortgage crisis, and though he never personally bought a house he couldn't afford, nor did he invent the fishy derivitives that leveraged all the worthless paper. But he gets the blame, and to some extent at least, that's fair. Because the buck stops with him.

Your hero would do well to remember that.

Biden said "we" weren't told about requests for increased security. Not true.

The US Ambassador to the UN said on 5 (five!) Sunday morning shows that there was no evidence to suggest this was anything to other than a spontaneous demonstratuion against the video. Tha's absolutely, 100% not true.

Here are the facts...there was violence and threats against Western agencies in the weeks leading up to the attack. Against the wishes of the man in charge of security in that region, security was reduced. there was no demonstration at the embassy preceding the attack. There was no demonstration, none whatsoever, at the embassy preceding the attack.

Ther feds (of which Obama is the head) blew the obvious need for heightened security. They continued to say it was a reaction to the video LONG after no one could possibly believe that.

And Biden says at the debate that we'll know when Iran is close to getting a nuke? For a week, this administration clung to the false story that there was an anti-video protest at the embassy that spurred the attack. They stuck to that story long after everyone knew it was garbage. So now, how are they now so skilled that they know exactly what's happening behind closed doors in Iran?

Biden specifically said it was our intelligence officials who believed the attack was a spontaneous protest over the video. If our intelligence officials believed that long afetr everyone else knew it was a lie, then why should I trust those same intelligence officials to know what's hapening behind closed doors in Iran?

This absolutely will be his 09/11, with a big difference. Bush came out of 09/11 looking very favorably to most Americans. In this case, Americans are waking up to the fact that the Obama administration was either incredibly ignorant, or willfully dishinest. There is no third option. And neither option is acceptable.

Keep shifting blame to the dead guy Spence.

"an important piece of information in what appears to be a complex situation. "

OK. So because Obama appears to have made an ass out of himself, it must be that there's more to this than we can grasp. It can't be that he just blew it.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Nobody is blaming Stevens, but his apparent comfort with the situation is certainly an important piece of information in what appears to be a complex situation.

-spence

yup..."apparent comfort"....right

According to one of the key witnesses expected to testify before the committee this week, even Ambassador Stevens himself had repeatedly requested more security personnel, but was turned down.


Lt. Col. Andy Wood, the former head of a U.S. Special Forces "Site Security Team" in Libya, has told CBS News correspondent Sharyl Attkisson that he and many other senior staff at the U.S. Embassy in Tripoli, "felt we needed more, not less" security personnel in the country, but were told "to do with less. For what reasons, I don't know."


Wood and others have portrayed a State Department in Washington that was either unwilling to provide American officials in Libya with the security they required or ignorant of the pressing security concerns in a country where the central government is weak, and Islamic extremist militias have enjoyed virtual free reign in the power vacuum created by the toppling and killing of long-time dictator Muammar Qaddafi.


Top U.S. counterterrorism adviser John Brennan in Libya amid questions over security missteps - CBS News

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

According to one of the key witnesses expected to testify before the committee this week, even Ambassador Stevens himself had repeatedly requested more security personnel, but was turned down.

Yes, stationed in Tripoli. But we're also talking about a small number of agents.

Everything I've read indicates the security situation was due to sectarian violence, not violence directed specifically at the US or Jim's large number of armed terrorists out to kill diplomats.

You guys will say anything if it makes Obama look bad, you're like MoveOn on steroids.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Everything I've read indicates the security situation was due ....
You guys will say anything if it makes Obama look bad, you're like MoveOn on steroids.

-spence

I'm starting to believe that you don't actually read a whole lot and what you do read isn't all that informative

Obama doesn't need help from us...he's doing a fine job doing a terrible job and looking really bad in doing so

is MoveOn trying to make Obama look bad?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Everything I've read indicates the security situation was due to sectarian violence, not violence directed specifically at the US or Jim's large number of armed terrorists out to kill diplomats.


-spence

Pants On Fire: Obama Scrambles For Cover As Benghazi Lie Explodes - Forbes


In addition to absolutely no evidence that the attack was connected to any objectionable video, information released in a letter from Representative Darrell Issa to Secretary of State Clinton shows that the situation in Libya had been deteriorating for months. It reads: “Based on information provided to the committee by individuals with direct knowledge of events in Libya, the attack that claimed the ambassador’s life was the latest in a long line of attacks on Western diplomats and officials in Libya in the months leading up to September 11, 2012.”

Those attacks began in April when two Libyans threw an improvised explosive device into the consulate compound. In June, postings on a pro-Gaddafi Facebook page encouraged Libyans to attack Ambassador Stevens during one of his early morning runs around Tripoli. And in the weeks leading up to September 11th, Libyan guards were being warned by their family members to quit their consulate jobs because of rumors about an impending attack. These are but a few of the escalating series of incidents. There were also carjackings, shoot-outs, and even a rocket-propelled grenade being shot at a convoy carrying the British ambassador.

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

In addition to absolutely no evidence that the attack was connected to any objectionable video

I believe this is factually incorrect as there was initial reporting, with interviews of the attackers, that indicated the video was a reason for the attack.

It's just one of the many mistakes in the OPINION piece you're referencing as a credible source.

Perhaps the largest is the flagrant use of al Qaeda to construct a narrative based on GOP talking points. I don't believe there is any evidence yet that this attack was planned or supported directly by al Qaeda in any material way.

The danger here is substantial. By exploiting this event for partisan gain the GOP risks undermining US security by attributing rock star status to a local militia.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Yes, stationed in Tripoli. But we're also talking about a small number of agents.

Everything I've read indicates the security situation was due to sectarian violence, not violence directed specifically at the US or Jim's large number of armed terrorists out to kill diplomats.

You guys will say anything if it makes Obama look bad, you're like MoveOn on steroids.

-spence

Spence, you said Stevens had a false sense of security. That's your opinion. The fact is, he requested more personal security.

Wrong. For example, I have repeatedly given him kudos for using drone strikes to kill terrorists. I am fair. You are the biased one, who will say anything (even blaming an assassinated anbassador) to deflect any criticismof Obama.

[spence]

Remember, 3-4 want-to-posts for every real post.

-spence

[Piscator]

Hillary just came out and is taking 100% of the blame for this.....great timing the night before the debate, not sure it will help much...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Hillary just came out and is taking 100% of the blame for this.....great timing the night before the debate, not sure it will help much...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

as she should, it will be interesting to see if there are any consequences for her failure or if, as politicians often do, "pro"claiming to take responsibility for something and then assume "that is that"...move along... she's just made the man who blames everyone else for whatever is wrong appear even smaller if that were even possible, there's still the little issue of all of the intentional misinformation in the aftermath, that falls on the White House and is other part of this entire mess.... maybe Valerie Jarrett(since she appears to make all of the decisions up there) will take
"100% repsonsiblity" for that one, should help with the female vote

OUCH!!!
Poll: Romney, narrows gap with women, leads Obama in the swing states

I disagree with Hillary on many things but I respect her, she has far more courage, devotion and integrity than her boss probably would have made a better President..


double OUCH!!! forboding

I missed this one from a while back.but e'splains a alot..

"Well, four years have passed and Obama has adroitly steered the bankrupted United States he inherited away from the precipice but has not provided a “different future” worthy of the hope invested in him; and that imagined team of rivals became a team, or rather a coterie, of idolizers.

There is only one star in the galaxy at this White House and his name is Barack Obama. Everyone in the Sun King’s court has drunk the Kool-Aid.

The Obama inner circle remains a group of tough political tacticians: David Axelrod, David Plouffe and Valerie Jarrett. The White House national security team does not boast a single name of strategic stature. Anyone outside Washington would be hard pressed to name one.

The policy upshot has been predictable: cerebral, cool, and with one big exception, cautious. Obama has corrected big mistakes — abandoning the unwinnable global war on terror and pulling out of Iraq. To his immense credit he took a big gamble on killing Osama Bin Laden. But elsewhere he has been cautious to a fault, eyeing the political calendar.



But the president’s semper wary political operatives, focused on votes, may well calculate otherwise."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/op...idolizers.html

[scottw]

update...forboding and prescient

if you read the NYT article it ends with reference to John Kael Weston, a former State Department officer imploring the President to present the Presidential Unit Citation during a ceremony held in honor of 2nd MEB, Sept. 14.

“Next month, Marines will gather at Camp Lejeune, N.C., to receive the PUC award. Secretary of the Navy Mabus is set to present it. While an honor, I know Marines hope you opt not to delegate the day’s special gathering to someone else. I feel the same way given ongoing Marine and troop sacrifice in Afghanistan.”

Weston added: “Please pardon my bluntness: I believe it is simply the right thing to do.”

and Roger Cohen suggesting that he ought to attend but wondering if political calculations might dictate otherwise...

"Obama needed more people in the Situation Room saying, “Please pardon my bluntness.” Having sent the Marines in (and concluded a Camp Lejeune speech in 2009 with “Semper Fi”) he should indeed present the award himself."


I guess he wondered right...I can't find any evidence that he attended

Secretary of the Navy awards 2nd MEB with Presidential Unit Citation > II Marine Expeditionary Force > News Article

maybe it conflicted with Letterman or Nickolodeon or that guy in the Pirate Suit, The VIEW, Beyonce or JayZ....so many things to do...so little time

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

OUCH!!!
Poll: Romney, narrows gap with women, leads Obama in the swing states

First established poll I've seen that has Romney ahead, on an aggregate basis, in the swing states. Romney up 4 among likely voters, in a Gallup poll, is very significant. One thing is for sure, Romney is 'peaking' at the right time.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

First established poll I've seen that has Romney ahead, on an aggregate basis, in the swing states. Romney up 4 among likely voters, in a Gallup poll, is very significant. One thing is for sure, Romney is 'peaking' at the right time.

He could be...I'm sure not sure an aggregate swing state poll means all that much unless it's weighted for OH and FL.

Once again Ohio is going to be the key, it's why the Boss is out and Paul Ryan is pretending to wash clean dishes..

Charity president unhappy about Paul Ryan soup kitchen ‘photo op’

Seriously

-spence