Question for the Needlefish Guru's

[MikeD]

This plug has been my "Newman" the last few years. I've had some success with them but very little. I've been using them almost exclusively at night and I have a Blurple, White and Wooden finish that I use. The area I fish them is sandy bottom with a bar and breaks that create nice structure and outflows. I've been letting is sink and working it straight back at different speeds and trying an occasional twitch or pop. Also I noticed the eye on the blurple is glow in the dark after inspecting it under my light for weed. Is there a consensus on that feature? I blame DZ's awesome book about Block Island for my obsession with becoming proficient with this lure. Anybody got any advice for a frustrated plugger.

[zimmy]

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...eedlefish.html

[JLH]

I'm far from a guru on needles (or anything else) but I have had some pretty good success with them the last few years in areas that have a nice sweep or cross current. I prefer just casting them out and letting them drift along with the current with either a veeerrry slow retrieve or no retrieve. I like having a few different sizes so I can experiment until I find the one that stays near bottom while drifting in the current without hanging up on a painfully slow retrieve. Sometimes the occasional twitch will trigger a strike but a lot of times you just need to be patient and realize that the plug drifting in the current is a very natural presentation and one that fish will hit. I’ve never had much success with them in real calm waters that don’t feature some kind of a cross current or retrieving them up against a current. Needles are one plug where I think that adding a scent can help.

[Clogston29]

guessing by the glow eyes comment on the blurple that you have salty's needles. if not, it would be helpful to know what you have. assuming its salty's, they're a good all around, slow sinking needle. under most circumstances, i like needles fished up in the water table. start retrieve right when it hits the water, first couple of cranks fast to get it near the surface (but not on the surface). Steady retrieve with occasional twitch or pull (similar to the open and closing hand technique some use with ss darters). Very retrieve speed. Slow is not always best. may want to add a redgill in the situation you describe. good luck. they work.

[DZ]

Mike, Thanks for the book compliment. Needles are the hardest plug to gain confidence in. Let me start by saying there are times when a needlefish will not catch anything. Here in my home waters of Newport I've gone weeks without catching on them while other plugs produce. You can't make them eat it.
It could be the bass just don't relate to them well where you're fishing. Similar to Clogston's results most of the bass I take on needles are within a foot of the surface in fairly shallow water (under 15 feet). All needles work but not all are created equal. My suggestion might be to always start casting a needlefish first before you try other plugs as the first few casts in any location generally get the most attention from aggressive bass. Of course you can also take a confidence gaining trip to Block where needlefish always (almost) seem to produce.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by DZ

Of course you can also take a confidence gaining trip to Block where needlefish always (almost) seem to produce.

Thats good advice.

[numbskull]

I am not a big fan of needles in "ripping current" unless it is a very shallow outflow. It can be done with heavy needles that you barely retrieve while they swing, but I generally do much better with a darter in that situation. Likewise, I've read about swimming big needles backwards in deep current, but my attempts to do so have been fruitless.

The best guy with a needlefish I knew was Flap, and he liked them right on top......indeed his favorite needles floated.......but either way retrieving your needle so that it leaves a slight wake is usually a good bet.

As for pork rind, it might work or it might not.......the off center appearance might be detrimental. Another simple and good trick is to take off the tail hook and tie an eelskin over the plug.

[JFigliuolo]

Problem I have with needles is they are the VERY LAST plug I try. After I am completely confident there are NO fish around. Talking to DZ, he advised to fish first and hard to gain confidence. I have been pulling them out sooner in the rotation and been taking fish with them. I just really don't enjoy using them yet.

[MikeD]

The blurple and white are Salty's and the wooden finish is a plug made from one of the guys on this site that looks like a superstrike, it is heavier than the salty's.

Those responses were all helpful. There is a spot I frequent that has much more of a ripping current, I'll give the slow retrieve technique a try there and go with a quicker retrieve to keep it up in the water column on the sandbar like clogston mentioned. I just need to believe in the damn things.

I'm fishing bait less and less. I keep very few fish and the gut hooking on chunks is pissing me off, even with circles. Eels will still remain a staple but I'm looking for a solid plan of attack in the dark to replace cut bait. I like the idea of putting the pork rind on the tail hook to give it a little stank.

[Saltheart]

Blot out the glowing eyes so you just have the long skinny dark profile shape. Like any other plug , use a darker color the darker the night. jet black shows best on a jet black night , not opposite as you might think.

Don't let them sink. I have no idea where that idea came from but if I were to let my needles sink they would always be hanging up. use big hooks.

Lastly , like any other plug , fish it a while and if you don't catch anything , change to a different plug. No sense in wasting a night of fishing trying to force a needle to work when the fish are not interested.

[MAKAI]

I use them a lot, mostly near the top. I don't fish them super slow, in fact skipping them across the water like a spooked sand eel has given me a few 40# plus fish.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

in the last 15 years i have caught more fish on needles than any other plug that i have fished. mainly because that is what i throw first,unless i am fishing inlets on LI.more often than not the way JLH describes fishing a needle is what works for me.i have quite a few sizes and weights that i use depending winds and were i am fishing.i think most people try to out think plugs,it is only a piece of wood.

[fcap60]

Mike D:

Your time will come if you fish them long enough. Despite your determination, I would not exclude using other plugs when Needles are not working.

[Nebe]

The needle does it all.. you can work every bit of the water column with them and you can even work them like a pencil popper..

I think that the bass think they are a squid, a giant sand eel, a small needle fish and this always raises eyebrows, but i am convinced that they really imitate a swimming razor clam.

check out the first few seconds of this... IDENTICAL action..
Razor clam peruvian swimming - YouTube

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Nebe

check out the first few seconds of this... IDENTICAL action..
Razor clam peruvian swimming - YouTube

That's nuts. Looks exactly like a needle, now I just need to figure out how to make the plug slowly borough into the sand. Thats going to take practice.

[DZ]

Originally Posted by MikeD

That's nuts. Looks exactly like a needle, now I just need to figure out how to make the plug slowly borough into the sand. Thats going to take practice.

Reverse it.

DZ

[chefchris401]

I started my love/hate relationship the same as you.

I couldn't understand how a plug with no action or motion was going to catch and slay fish.

I started with two ss needles, the 1.75 oz size, green over white and blue over white.

I carried them and threw them everywhere i went with no luck, they were also the last plug I threw cause i had zero confidence in them.

Then it finally happened.

I was at a spot in soco, after a hitless night, i decided to throw the green/white ss needle, "what was the worst that thing that happen, id catch less fish? "

cast out, get contact and dead slow retrieve, and was off staring at the sky and BAM, the thing gets hammered, almost ripped the rod out of my hand, i get tight to the fish and fight em for a little bit, a few minutes later i slide a hefty 16lb fish on the rocks, it literally inhaled the needle from behind, released him and kept fishing. I had a hit almost every cast and landed 10 or 12 more fish that night, biggest being 19lbs, i was sold.

most fish took the belly hook, but a few others also inhaled it from behind, one wasn't even hook, the plug just wedged itself in its mouth.

after that night i was a believer in the needlefish.

in zenos book, the art of surfcasting with lures, the needle chapter has some great info, well worth a read.

I fish mine dead slow, with little or no twitches 95% of the time, maybe a slight pause every 4th or 5th crank, the hits seem to come on the pause for the most part and are usually solid hits.

i always envision the needle is moving slow, swaying in the current, and the fish starts stalking it from behind, closing in, and the second the needle pauses like a tired baitfish, the fish sees the oppurtunity and hits it hard.

a lot of times ill be throwing a needle with no action, then i have to remind myself to slow down the retrieve, even if its already painfully slow, the second i slow down it triggers the strike.

I also like fishing mine higher in the water column, then along the bottom.

I'm a fan on the gibbs 1.75oz wood needle, its almost a floater and slays in boulder fields and rocky areas, plus the risk of losing it too is less, purple over silver is my go to in that style.

the ss needle in 1.75oz size is great, for a deeper presentation.

Needle colors i love black over orange, green over white and purple over silver.

I wont fish without a couple needles in the bag now, usually a slow sink/floater and then something a little heavier.

just like anything else, if the fish aren't there or hitting it doesn't matter what you throw.

i think the needle is so versatile now, like stated above it can used to imitate needlefish, silver sides, squid, sandeels, thin baitfish like macs, etc. Most forage doesn't move much side to side when it swims, so the needle covers that action great.

and i think it was Habs senior that said something like " if you aren't bored fishing needles then you are doing something wrong. "

good luck with them, ill be throwing a few tonight that's for sure.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The needle does it all.. you can work every bit of the water column with them and you can even work them like a pencil popper..

I think that the bass think they are a squid, a giant sand eel, a small needle fish and this always raises eyebrows, but i am convinced that they really imitate a swimming razor clam.

check out the first few seconds of this... IDENTICAL action..
Razor clam peruvian swimming - YouTube

That is a pretty amazing likeness.

[onecastmike2003]

Throw à 5/8s x 6 inch white one in thé spring and twitch it while reeling Slow .... They take à second look and inhale them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[GattaFish]

Slow retrieve top & bottom, skip them, skin them, jig them. Even the varied retrieve, finger twitch you name it. The needle is a very versatile plug.

I know a guy who used to make a fast sinker that would come right up on top with a slow retrieve and leave a V wake in calm water. Hope he gets to make some more some day.
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[MikeD]

This site is great. Its not lost on me how much talent and combined experience weighed in on my question. I appreciate the time you guys take to answer. I'm going to put it to the test starting tonight. We'll see what a full moon and cloudy skies have in store. I love this time of year! Happy Memorial Day weekend.

[fcap60]

Nebe..was that really necessary ?

Now I have one more thing to think about imitating when I'm tinkering with my plugs. If only my some of my plugs swam like that razor clam. Can you imagine a whole bunch of those clams swimming like that at once ?

Great Video...thanks for sharing it

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by fcap60

Nebe..was that really necessary ?

Now I have one more thing to think about imitating when I'm tinkering with my plugs. If only my some of my plugs swam like that razor clam. Can you imagine a whole bunch of those clams swimming like that at once ?

Great Video...thanks for sharing it

Sorry to confuse you even more!! But now consider why olive back and white or ivory belly works so well. It's the exact colors of a razor clam shell.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[leftyfan]

they can be worked well with teasers as well

I have done very well with needles but never really gave the stubby style a shot-then last year I gave in and tried out of desperation and got 4 nice keepers at block on it saving my trip

[GattaFish]

Originally Posted by leftyfan

they can be worked well with teasers as well

I have done very well with needles but never really gave the stubby style a shot-then last year I gave in and tried out of desperation and got 4 nice keepers at block on it saving my trip

I made some stubby needles specifically for block island. And let's just say bingo.


Side note. I was standing next to someone on Block when he got spanked by a fish on a parrot Hab's needle.

Just saying.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[OLD GOAT]

My favored needle is dark mack truck green on top and white on the bottom.

[Clogston29]

one thing that always stuck with me from when I was a kid watching fishing shows on ESPN was Doug Hannon saying that rubber worms worked so well, not becasue they imitated anything in particular, but because they were long, thin and easy/safe to swallow; thus appealing to fish. i think that applies to needles too. don't overthink it.

[Clogston29]

Parrot Habs has 4/0 6x hooks now, waiting for another shot. That one still bugs me.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[afterhours]

i think needles in the stubby size imitate many forage fish if you have similar colors. casts a mile and has a great profile. most underfished plug out there imo.

[GattaFish]

Originally Posted by afterhours

i think needles in the stubby size imitate many forage fish if you have similar colors. casts a mile and has a great profile. most underfished plug out there imo.

X2


SKINS to,,,,

Hi Don.,....